You know what's funny?

windward

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A few people round here have touted what a good job Mike Holmgren has done at Seattle esp in this year's playoffs with a banged up team and all and is supposed to be an example of what a good coach should be in relation to "The Worst Coach in the League" Bill Parcells.

Funny thing is, though it took Holmgren SEVEN seasons before he won his first playoff game in Seattle. He had a 31-33 mark his first four years as coach there (which ironically, was Seattle's record in the four years previous to his arrival ,95-98 under Dennis Erickson) Parcells has won 34 games in his four seasons here.

Now the question here is, was Holmgren inflexible and out of tune with the game? Could he not win with what he had in the past (Brett Favre)? Was the Big, Bad AFC West too tough for a Seattle team seemingly stuck in mediocrity? Or did it simply take time for Holmgren to collect all the pieces in Seattle?

After a Super Bowl appearence last year and a playoff win this year, it appears that Holmgren has built the Seahawks into a perennial contender in the NFC. One benefit the Seahawks have is the continuity developed throughout the organization over an eight year period. It's a process that probably promotes slower growth overall but gives a franchise greater sustainablity at the top then the notorious one year wonders that pop up every year. (The Patriots are the exception, rather than the rule in this case, and even that is ripe for debate, although not within the scope of this post.)

Another example in the AFC would be Bill Cowher, who from 1998-2000 won 7, 6 and 9 games. Was he fired? Of course not. Pittsburgh rebounded and is a perennial contender in the AFC.

But back to Parcells and the Holmgren example.I think that Dallas at this point is further along than Seattle was. I think we have better a better defense than Homgren's early Seattle teams and Romo's at a similar level to Hasselbeck circa 2003. Some may argue that if Parcells leaves in a year that we can't develop the continuity that Seattle has developed. Holmgren is a few years younger, true but Parcells has built an organizational philosophy that can still be followed by his successors if and when he leaves. Organizational philosophies go beyond one particular individual. I say Parcells needs one more year to really cement this team as a consistent contender in the NFC(i.e consecutive playoff berths, playoff wins, etc..) Add another pass rusher, tweak the 3-4 a bit continue to upgrade the OLINE and we may have something here, guys.

Continuity, folks, I think it works.
 

1fisher

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silverbear;1319861 said:
A great point, and my nominee for post of the day...


maybe not post of the day but I agree on continuity
 

superpunk

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Continuity is MOoooooooney. Clearly if progress isn't made, or you seem to be declining, you make changes. And maybe our collective outlooks are just different levels of sunniness. But, many times patience pays off, big time. Our own organization's history should tell us that, and yet most can't wait a few weeks for a decision about the top, demanding an immediate answer. I've been jocking continuity everywhere for the last year, and welcome all those who would like to climb aboard. :) The payoff is coming.
 

Cochese

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Then you look at someone like Lovie Smith, who has been a head coach in the league for 3 years and about 3 days, and he is in the NFC Championship game, maybe bringing in fresh blood is what works. Or the Saints who went from 3-13 to the NFC Championship game, is another example of bringing in fresh blood and reaping the rewards. The NFL changes from year to year. There are no excuses for 9-7 when other teams with what I would consider to be inferior or equal overall talent are getting the job done.
 

austintodallas

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JustSayNotoTO;1319872 said:
Then you look at someone like Lovie Smith, who has been a head coach in the league for 3 years and about 3 days, and he is in the NFC Championship game, maybe bringing in fresh blood is what works. Or the Saints who went from 3-13 to the NFC Championship game, is another example of bringing in fresh blood and reaping the rewards. The NFL changes from year to year. There are no excuses for 9-7 when other teams with what I would consider to be inferior or equal overall talent are getting the job done.
But will they be able to sustain it? Did you even read the original post?
 

windward

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JustSayNotoTO;1319872 said:
Then you look at someone like Lovie Smith, who has been a head coach in the league for 3 years and about 3 days, and he is in the NFC Championship game, maybe bringing in fresh blood is what works. Or the Saints who went from 3-13 to the NFC Championship game, is another example of bringing in fresh blood and reaping the rewards. The NFL changes from year to year. There are no excuses for 9-7 when other teams with what I would consider to be inferior or equal overall talent are getting the job done.
The qustion is if Payton can sustain it?For all we know, he may go 5-11 next season. does that make him a bum? No, just that it takes time to build a consistent winner. Can Lovie? There are many mitigating factors to the rise of the Bears (most prominently playing in the worst division in football)
 

Cochese

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austintodallas;1319880 said:
But will they be able to sustain it? Did you even read the original post?


What difference does it make? You play to win the Super Bowl each year, not plan on some miraculous continuity to get you one 5 years down the road, which Holmgren still hasnt done in Seattle, hell they have only made it to the NFC championship game once!! Thats real proof that continuity works! As I said, the NFL changes wildly from year to year, bad teams become good (Saints) and good teams become bad (Steelers). What is continuity going to sustain here? 9-7? First round playoff exits?
 

Cochese

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windward;1319886 said:
The qustion is if Payton can sustain it?For all we know, he may go 5-11 next season. does that make him a bum? No, just that it takes time to build a consistent winner. Can Lovie? There are many mitigating factors to the rise of the Bears (most prominently playing in the worst division in football)
If they win a Super Bowl, the last thing the Bears or Saints fans are going to think of is if they can get knocked out in the first round of the playoffs like Mr. Continuity up in the rainy northwest.
 

windward

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JustSayNotoTO;1319888 said:
What difference does it make? You play to win the Super Bowl each year, not plan on some miraculous continuity to get you one 5 years down the road, which Holmgren still hasnt done in Seattle, hell they have only made it to the NFC championship game once!! Thats real proof that continuity works! As I said, the NFL changes wildly from year to year, bad teams become good (Saints) and good teams become bad (Steelers). What is continuity going to sustain here? 9-7? First round playoff exits?
Look at the coaches of consistent contenders in this league. Belichick, Dungy, Cowher, Shanahan, Holmgren, Reid. What these coaches all have in common is they have been at their position a minimum of five years. Sure, you can win with new blood. Gruden did it in 2002, only to follow it with uber medicority. The evidence, imo weighs heavily in the favor of continuity

The NFL may seem like it fluctuates rapidly, but it really doesn't. Granted there are more one year wonders than before. Look at the aforementioned coaches. Their teams are consistently expected to do well and are always threats to win their conference.
 

theogt

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Even funnier are the people foaming at the mouth of Cowher. Look how long it took him to achieve anything.
 

windward

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theogt;1319900 said:
Even funnier are the people foaming at the mouth of Cowher. Look how long it took him to achieve anything.
Well, that's in the eye of the beholder, really. His teams were consistently at the top of the Conference in spite of a front offic ethat refused to pay top dollar for their players as the Steelers seemingly hemoraghed free agents year after year.
 

Yeagermeister

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theogt;1319900 said:
Even funnier are the people foaming at the mouth of Cowher. Look how long it took him to achieve anything.

You mean like when he took his team to the SB in 96 in his second or third year as HC? :D
 

CF74

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You got some good points but Holmgren is now winning despite all the injuries. Tuna is falling apart...:rolleyes:
 

Cochese

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windward;1319897 said:
Look at the coaches of consistent contenders in this league. Belichick, Dungy, Cowher, Shanahan, Holmgren, Reid. What these coaches all have in common is they have been at their position a minimum of five years. Sure, you can win with new blood. Gruden did it in 2002, only to follow it with uber medicority. The evidence, imo weighs heavily in the favor of continuity

The NFL may seem like it fluctuates rapidly, but it really doesn't. Granted there are more one year wonders than before. Look at the aforementioned coaches. Their teams are consistently expected to do well and are always threats to win their conference.

Yes, SOME of those coaches do have there teams in positions to win, unlike Bill Parcells whose continuity right now consists of epic collapses in the month of December.
 

Clove

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I do have a problem with Parcells shackles he puts on his coordinators, and the defensive philosophy drives me in sane, and not knowing how to adapt to TO who needs the ball on really really short passes, but other than that I like the guy.

The problem is, every year we don't know what Parcells is going to do. The threat of retirement every year makes you wonder if he WOULD stay the distance to make it happen. If the guy has a 5 or 6 year plan, he needs to tell Jerry that, and not try and act desperate by trying to plug in old guys all over the place, then the fans might calm down.
 

theogt

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Yeagermeister;1319907 said:
You mean like when he took his team to the SB in 96 in his second or third year as HC? :D
Could you imagine what it would be like on this board if after 15 season with Parcells we had not won a Super Bowl?
 
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