Your All-Pro Team

[Tio]

Kevin Williams led all DTs with 12 sacks last season. SHaun Rodgers is the anchor at 345 lbs. Seymour had 1 more sack than him, I will gladly take the run stuffing Rodgers provides.

 

[like a dog]

According to dr. z, bailey was 76th in deep passes allowed, and something like 72 in deep passes for touchdowns.

There are 64 starting corners in the nfl.

I have my opinion of the bucs, you have yours. I think both the scheme and have a great front seven helped.

Sheldon Brown was dominating last season. But, I think lining up with a probowl ss, fs, and cb helped.

I don't think they're bad cbs, I just think Shaun SPrings is better.

That Dr. Z article about the dude who wrote the passing book was a very good read. It is true that Bailey didn't grade that well in the article, but even in the Cincinatti game where Johnson burned him deep twice, Bailey had a pick and made several nice plays on the ball. I really think that because it happened on Monday night the actual magnitude of what occured got blown way out of proportion.

 

[Tio]

That Dr. Z article about the dude who wrote the passing book was a very good read. It is true that Bailey didn't grade that well in the article, but even in the Cincinatti game where Johnson burned him deep twice, Bailey had a pick and made several nice plays on the ball. I really think that because it happened on Monday night the actual magnitude of what occured got blown way out of proportion.

Well, I'm basing it on the stats, didn't really care for the game as it was two afc teams. I watched bits here and there.

 

[like a dog]

Kevin Williams led all DTs with 12 sacks last season. SHaun Rodgers is the anchor at 345 lbs. Seymour had 1 more sack than him, I will gladly take the run stuffing Rodgers provides.

Seymour plays primarily as 3-4 end in the Patriots scheme. This mean that he has 2-gap responsibilities and cannot charge off upfield. It is unfair to compare a 2-gap DE's sack production with a 1-gap tackle's: their responsibilities are completely different. Where the 1-gap tackle is encouraged to penetrate and make plays, the 2-gap end needs to stay at home, maintain his gap, and tie up blockers so the edge rushers can flow to the ball.

Rogers is huge and can be a load against the run. But he is infamous for a lack of effor and taking plays off. Last year was really his first really good year. Stroud and Seymour have been just as good, if not better, for a longer time and have no questions about their lack of effort. I'd take them any day.

 

[Tio]

I'd take them any day.

And I'll take production and recent results over scheme excuses and past judgement. I think last season Rodgers was the best nt in the nfl, so I'm picking him.

 

[Crown Royal]

I don't think it's that Seymour is getting no love, he is dominant and a great player that anyone would love.

I think it is more of the fact that he is a jack of all trades and a master of none. He just doesn't have one truly great thing that he is absolutely amazing at, he is just really good at every one of them...

I hope that makes sense...

 

[Hostile]

QB Peyton Manning (Colts)
HB LaDanian Tomlinson (Chargers)
FB Lorenzo Neal (Chargers)
WR Randy Moss (Raiders)
WR Marvin Harrison (Colts)
TE Tony Gonzalez (Chiefs)
LT Jonathon Ogden (Ravens)
LG Will Shields (Chiefs)
C Matt Birk (Vikings)
RG Alan Faneca (Steelers)
RT Walter Jones (Seahawks)

3rd WR Torry Holt (Rams)


DE Julius Peppers (Panthers)
DT Kris Jenkins (Panthers)
DT Casey Hampton (Steelers)
DE Dwight Freeney (Colts)
OLB Takeo Spikes (Bills)
MLB Ray Lewis (Ravens)
OLB Keith Bullock (Titans)
CB Patrick Surtain (Chiefs)
FS Ed Reed (Ravens)
SS Brian Dawkins (Eagles)
CB Chris McAlister ( Ravens)

When switching to the 3-4 Hampton moves to NT and Donnie Edwards (Chargers) comes in in at ILB.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

First off, correct me if I mistaken, but doesn't the Pro Bowl have two teams?
Unless you were only talking about your selections -- but even then, you're leaving out so many qualifiers.

Believe only Hos identified a true Pro owler from the Eagles -- and I know his feelings about the Eagles. Yet he was able to distinguish talent from bias and make a selection. I'm almost surprised that none of you are able to select any Pro Bowlers from the team(s) that went to the Superbowl!

I won;twaste any more effort on this because it's rediculous. Here's my two obvious choices ...

Eagles ...Terrell (wants more money) Owens
Eagles ...Donovan (Superbowl) McNabb

Cowbozoys ...Roy (leave the horseshoes at home) Williams

 

[1fisher]

First off, correct me if I mistaken, but doesn't the Pro Bowl have two teams?
Unless you were only talking about your selections -- but even then, you're leaving out so many qualifiers.

Believe only Hos identified a true Pro owler from the Eagles -- and I know his feelings about the Eagles. Yet he was able to distinguish talent from bias and make a selection. I'm almost surprised that none of you are able to select any Pro Bowlers from the team(s) that went to the Superbowl!

I won;twaste any more effort on this because it's rediculous. Here's my two obvious choices ...

Eagles ...Terrell (wants more money) Owens
Eagles ...Donovan (Superbowl) McNabb

Cowbozoys ...Roy (leave the horseshoes at home) Williams

HOMER

 

[Hostile]

First off, correct me if I mistaken, but doesn't the Pro Bowl have two teams?
Unless you were only talking about your selections -- but even then, you're leaving out so many qualifiers.

Believe only Hos identified a true Pro owler from the Eagles -- and I know his feelings about the Eagles. Yet he was able to distinguish talent from bias and make a selection. I'm almost surprised that none of you are able to select any Pro Bowlers from the team(s) that went to the Superbowl!

I won;twaste any more effort on this because it's rediculous. Here's my two obvious choices ...

Eagles ...Terrell (wants more money) Owens
Eagles ...Donovan (Superbowl) McNabb

Cowbozoys ...Roy (leave the horseshoes at home) Williams

I almost selected Owens over Harrison, but ultimately I wanted a possession WR opposite a home run hitter and Harrison is that, plus the chemistry with Manning.

No way would I take McNabb over Manning and I like McNabb more than most on this site.

I like Roy Williams more than Brian Dawkins as far as intimidation, but Dakwins is better in coverage.

I do feel that New England is the best team, but that other teams have players who are better. I considered Tom Brady but ultimately I feel if both were on the same team Manning would start over Brady easily. That was my criteria for most positions.

I don't mind disagreements though. No big deal.

 

[like a dog]

QB Peyton Manning (Colts)
HB LaDanian Tomlinson (Chargers)
FB Lorenzo Neal (Chargers)
WR Randy Moss (Raiders)
WR Marvin Harrison (Colts)
TE Tony Gonzalez (Chiefs)
LT Jonathon Ogden (Ravens)
LG Will Shields (Chiefs)
C Matt Birk (Vikings)
RG Alan Faneca (Steelers)
RT Walter Jones (Seahawks)

3rd WR Torry Holt (Rams)


DE Julius Peppers (Panthers)
DT Kris Jenkins (Panthers)
DT Casey Hampton (Steelers)
DE Dwight Freeney (Colts)
OLB Takeo Spikes (Bills)
MLB Ray Lewis (Ravens)
OLB Keith Bullock (Titans)
CB Patrick Surtain (Chiefs)
FS Ed Reed (Ravens)
SS Brian Dawkins (Eagles)
CB Chris McAlister ( Ravens)

When switching to the 3-4 Hampton moves to NT and Donnie Edwards (Chargers) comes in in at ILB.

Neal is an interesting pick. A little bit one dimensional as a blocker, but he can sure lower the boom. If I had a fullback I would go for Tony Richardson, nearly as good as a blocker and a much more versatile player.

Harrison is a good pick. Nobody is smoother in and out of his breaks. Calling him a posession receiver is a misonomer though. The guy can get deep.

Jones is a poor fit at RT. I believe that you did identify the two best tackles in the game, but Jones' game is more about finesse, making him ill-suited to the right side. Ogden would probably be a better choice to slide over with his physicality.

Jenkins and Hampton are both coming off serious injuries. Jenkins also has issues with his weight and alcoholism. I think you can do a lot better then either of them at DT (Seymour, Stroud, Williams, Henderson, etc.).

Spikes is a superb player, but I don't know how you keep Brooking off an All-Pro team. He is the most complete outside linebacker in the game.

Your secondary looks great. Dawkins would be a force at SS.

 

[dboyz]

I almost picked Culpepper. Dr. Z, who I think is as good an analyst as there is, says that he think Culpepper is the most talented versatile QB in the NFL. It is just hard to ignore what Manning has done and how he keeps getting better every year.

You couldn't go wrong with either guy, but Culpepper was terrific last year. He finally became more patient and not as much of a gunslinger. I think with Moss being injured Culpepper had less weapons than Manning over the course of the year. He also brings the ability to run for first downs if a play breaks down.

Muitalo? He certainly fits the mold of a road grader at guard but struggles in pass protection. Hardly All-Pro material. I'd look at Toniu Fonoti from San Diego if you want a pure road grader. Not only is he a better masher, but he is a far superior all-around player.

I picked Mulitalo to get a road grader type for a power running game and because I've seen him dominate in games I've watched. I didn't think of Fonoti, but probably should have. He would have been a very good pick.

Your defensive line is great except for Fergueson. He is not at that level IMO. There are a lot of guys such as Stroud, Henderson, and Rogers who are better. If you slipped Seymour inside and added Freeny (how do you not include the most devastating pass rusher in the NFL?) you would have a powerful line.

I like my line a lot. It's big and physical and basically everyone would require a double team. Ferguson is a great two gapper IMO. Freeny is great but I'll take my line. It would be devastating to run against and they would collapse the pocket as well.

Brooks is a good pick. A few years ago he would have been a hands down, slam dunk pick, but I think Bullucks has passed him. Another guy to consider at WLB is Donnie Edwards. He plays inside in San Diego's 3-4 now, but he is a monster against the run and, especially, in coverage.

Urlacher? Bleh. Give me Lewis, or Al Wilson or Farrior or even Trotter or Jonathan Vilma.

I went for speed at LBer. Urlacher is a great athlete and can go sideline to sideline. I didn't pick some of the other guys, because with the people up front, I thought I didn't need a run stuffer at MLB.

Your right, Terrance Newman is a homer pick. He has as much natural talent as anybody in the NFL, but has yet to put it together. Lots of guys are better

I'm looking for a great year for Newman with some other veterans in the secondary.

 

[like a dog]

First off, correct me if I mistaken, but doesn't the Pro Bowl have two teams?
Unless you were only talking about your selections -- but even then, you're leaving out so many qualifiers.

Believe only Hos identified a true Pro owler from the Eagles -- and I know his feelings about the Eagles. Yet he was able to distinguish talent from bias and make a selection. I'm almost surprised that none of you are able to select any Pro Bowlers from the team(s) that went to the Superbowl!

I won;twaste any more effort on this because it's rediculous. Here's my two obvious choices ...

Eagles ...Terrell (wants more money) Owens
Eagles ...Donovan (Superbowl) McNabb

Cowbozoys ...Roy (leave the horseshoes at home) Williams

Read the subject line. All-Pro. One team, both leagues, best of the best. You are the only moron who didn't realize that simple, basic premiss of this entire thread.

Now let us consider the Eagles Pro Bowlers. On offense:

Tra Thomas, LT - Do you honestly believe that he is better then Ogden, or Jones, or Pace, or even Roaf? If so you are the one guilty of the bias that you so loudly proclaim without any real analysis.

Terrell Owens, WR - Could easily be an All-Pro. But there are plenty of other legitimate choices such as Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Andre Johnson, Torry Holt, Marvin Harrison. It comes down to a matter of personal taste.

Brian Westrbrook, HB - Yep. He is better then LT. Suuure.

Defense:

Jeremiah Trotter, MLB - Ray Lewis? James Farrior? Donnie Edwards? The list goes on.

Lito Sheppard, CB - Is very good. But I think that Sheldon Brown is even better, which is why he is on my All-Pro team.

Michael Lewis, SS - Roy Williams is a better player. Though you could make an argument to slide Dawkins over to this spot and include him as a SS like Hos did. I would respect that argument.

Brian Dawkins, FS - Ed Reed is a much better player.

7 Pro Bowlers, all of which were deserving, is extremely impressive. But, if you look at it in a case to case manner, it becomes obvious that not many of the Eagles deserve to be All-Pros.

Think about it before you start flaming people.

 

[Hostile]

Neal is an interesting pick. A little bit one dimensional as a blocker, but he can sure lower the boom. If I had a fullback I would go for Tony Richardson, nearly as good as a blocker and a much more versatile player.

Harrison is a good pick. Nobody is smoother in and out of his breaks. Calling him a posession receiver is a misonomer though. The guy can get deep.

Jones is a poor fit at RT. I believe that you did identify the two best tackles in the game, but Jones' game is more about finesse, making him ill-suited to the right side. Ogden would probably be a better choice to slide over with his physicality.

Jenkins and Hampton are both coming off serious injuries. Jenkins also has issues with his weight and alcoholism. I think you can do a lot better then either of them at DT (Seymour, Stroud, Williams, Henderson, etc.).

Spikes is a superb player, but I don't know how you keep Brooking off an All-Pro team. He is the most complete outside linebacker in the game.

Your secondary looks great. Dawkins would be a force at SS.

I love FBs who can open holes. I miss Moose. Neal is the best at that. I have never been all that big on the versatile guys at FB. Just give me the sledgehammer to open the hole. It is why I liked Jamar Martin so much and why I want Lousaka Polite to win the job here.

I considered each of those guys at DT. Almost took Kevin Williams over Casey Hampton but I wanted 4-3 and 3-4 ability. I just assume Jenkins will be healthy. I know that's dangerous, but when he is the guy is a bull.

I agree with you about Jones at RT. Ultimately I just took him on ability. I have no issue with them switching sides. Ogden at RT and Jones at LT is just as punishing.

 

[Trophy#6]

QB - Tom Brady
RB - LaDanian Tomlinson
TE - Jason Witten
WR - Randy Moss
WR - Terrel Owens
FL - Keyshawn Johnson
C- Kevin Mawae
T- Jonathon Ogden
T- Tarik Glenn
G- Will Shields
G- Larry Allen

DE - Julius Peppers
DE - Dwight Freeney
DT - Warren Sapp
DT - Shaun Rogers
OLB - DeMarcus Ware (Every team needs a #1 pick)
ILB - Ray Lewis
OLB - Derrick Brooks
SS - Roy Williams
FS - Ed Reed
CB - Chris McAlister
CB - Champ Bailey
NB/PR - Dieon Sanders

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

Read the subject line. All-Pro. One team, both leagues, best of the best. You are the only moron who didn't realize that simple, basic premiss of this entire thread.

Think about it before you start flaming people.

You're touchy "lad!" I wasn't flamming -- just expressing the fact that the thread could be read from a different perspective. All-Pro does not mean "the best of the best from the NFL. There's No such distinction unless it's broken dwon by stats or from the two-teams AFL/NFL concept. So don't personalize this by calling me a moron -- didn't call you out of your name -- why would I? Wouldn't ...even if I felt you were wrong about something. This isn't the

Wasn't a lot of players mentioned from the Patriots either.

 

[like a dog]

You're touchy "lad!" I wasn't flamming -- just expressing the fact that the thread could be read from a different perspective. All-Pro does not mean "the best of the best from the NFL. There's No such distinction unless it's broken dwon by stats or from the two-teams AFL/NFL concept. So don't personalize this by calling me a moron -- didn't call you out of your name -- why would I? Wouldn't ...even if I felt you were wrong about something. This isn't the

Wasn't a lot of players mentioned from the Patriots either.

I made no claim for objectivity. The thread is, obviously, one of opinion. It was meant to engender an interesting debate about the best the NFL has to offer, not set in stone who is objectively best, which is impossible.

You were flaming because you accused everybody involved of being biased homers without any evidence to back your claim up. Instead of supplying some rationale as to who should be included on the list you went with the vague feeling that not enough Eagles or Patriots were on. But if you break it down, there are really only two or three players on each team who deserve real consideration. And if you break it down even farther, you will observe that their are better players at those positions somewhere in the NFL.

By the way, All-Pro does imply a one team, best of list. A Pro Bowler, on the other hand, refers to the best in his league.

 

[Mr. S]

Well you are obviously a Commanders fan. Chris Cooley on an All Pro team!? What about Kleinsasser and Richardson and Pass and Griffith? They are all better.

Your offensive line would look like this:
LT - Willie Roaf (Still very good but not in the class of a Ogden or a Jones.)
LG - Brian Waters (One of the best young guards in the league. Interesting pick.)
C - Mawae
RG - Faneca
RT - Jordan Black (An unproven player with four starts in his carrer. Promising, but not an All-Pro.)
You could do a lot better then that.

Griffin had a good season last year. But he is certainly not an All-Pro, not even close. There are a lot of players better then him (Seymour, Stroud, Williams, Henderson, etc.). Jenkins would have been a good choice a year ago, but coming off a serious injury and with reported weight and alcohol issues he is a questionable pick.

Marcus Washington at SLB is actually your best Commander pick. He was fantastic last season. But he is not as good as Keith Brooking or as Takeo Spikes, Joey Porter, or Matt Vrabel for that matter.

Springs is not a top flight corner anymore. Clements is an intersting pick and should be good for a long time. But there are better (Bailey, Brown, Barber, Kelly).

Sean Taylor is an absurd pick. Roy Williams, Brian Dawkins, Michael Lewis, Troy Polamalu, and Rodney Harrison are all better, more proven players.

Tom Tupa is another absurd pick. What about Chris Hanson or Todd Sauerbrun? Tupa is not even in the top third of the punters in the league anymore!

dude, not to be offensive, but why are you analyzing everyones team list? If you have something constructive to say, that is one thing, but you are bashing certain picks even though there is some method to it.

For someone who is not in the top third of punters, he was the pro bowl alternate for the NFC.

Sean Taylor was in the running for DROY, and if his performance was based on the last 8 games of the season, he may have made the pro-bowl instead of being first alternate. Springs was better than most CBs in the league. Griffin also was well overlooked, and in my opinion, he definitely was dominant.

My o-line, I dont really know too many of the dominant people on the lines, but the Cheifs line, they do very well. It is all about production, and you can use the Commanders for a case in point, lots of talent on paper in the past, nothing accomplished.

 

[Hostile]

dude, not to be offensive, but why are you analyzing everyones team list? If you have something constructive to say, that is one thing, but you are bashing certain picks even though there is some method to it.

For someone who is not in the top third of punters, he was the pro bowl alternate for the NFC.

Sean Taylor was in the running for DROY, and if his performance was based on the last 8 games of the season, he may have made the pro-bowl instead of being first alternate. Springs was better than most CBs in the league. Griffin also was well overlooked, and in my opinion, he definitely was dominant.

My o-line, I dont really know too many of the dominant people on the lines, but the Cheifs line, they do very well. It is all about production, and you can use the Commanders for a case in point, lots of talent on paper in the past, nothing accomplished.

What's wrong with analyzing all the teams? It's a good way to keep active in a thread.

 

[InDakWeTrust]

Let me keep the ball rolling...
QB-Dante Culpepper
RB-Julius Jones (Homerism I know) (LT is the 3rd down guy)
FB-Dan Krieder (Daryl Johnston JR?)
WR-Andre Johnson
WR-Chad Johnson
TE-Jason Witten
LT-Walter Jones
LG-Alan Faneca
C-Kevin Mawae
RG-Steve Hutchinson
RT-Jordan Gross
LE-Richard Seymour
DT-LaRoi Glover
DT-Marcus Stroud
DE-Julius Peppers
SLB-Takeo Spikes
MLB-Ray Lewis
WLB-Jonathan Vilma (Sure he's a MLB but he is just too good!)
CB-Chris McCalister
CB-Champ Bailey
FS-Ed Reed
SS-Troy Polamalu (I know I know) I think he is coming into his own and is better in coverage than RW and faster than him too.

KR-Terrance McGee
PR-Dante Hall