Your nightmare at 17

[fivetwos]

I would pass on Brown at 17, Kinlaw would be a no brained. Only 2 DT I’d take in the first Ekinlaw and Elliot in a trade back.

Curious....what dont you like about Brown?

He concerns me as well but he is so likely out of our range I dont think much about him.

He looks a bit too fat to me. Remember Marcel Dareus was a "cant miss" guy also. Same deal.

 

[CATCH17]

Nah but seriously:

Diggs
McKinney
Epenesa
Murray
Fulton



Want no parts in any of these guys. Not in a trade down either unless we can pick up an extra 2nd (we wont)

Yep.. Big L if we draft any of those guys except maybe Fulton who I think will be solid but not worth the 17th pick.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

Curious....what dont you like about Brown?

He concerns me as well but he is so likely out of our range I dont think much about him.

He looks a bit too fat to me. Remember Marcel Dareus was a "cant miss" guy also. Same deal.

Not that I don't like Brown, just don't like him in the first round. He is going to be a great run stuffing DT who will push the pocket, get you 3-4 sacks per year but those guys are not worth 1st round draft picks.

You can go out and get 1-techs in FA relatively inexpensive every year in FA because of the position value or find them in the 2nd or 3rd day.
Danny Shelton drafted 12th overall. Signed for 2 years and 8 million and will be on his 3rd team going in his 6th year.
Linval Joseph the 46th pick in the NFL draft just signed a deal 2 years 17 million and really only the 1st year is guaranteed
Damon Harrison UDFA is still on the market.
Dontari Poe drafted 11th overall 2 year 10.5 million dollars and will be on his 4th team.
Those are just a few you who were this year crop of FA, and you also had Andrew Billings who signed for peanuts. The need for the position is there, but the value to draft them high is not.

 

[fivetwos]

Not that I don't like Brown, just don't like him in the first round. He is going to be a great run stuffing DT who will push the pocket, get you 3-4 sacks per year but those guys are not worth 1st round draft picks.

You can go out and get 1-techs in FA relatively inexpensive every year in FA because of the position value or find them in the 2nd or 3rd day.
Danny Shelton drafted 12th overall. Signed for 2 years and 8 million and will be on his 3rd team going in his 6th year.
Linval Joseph the 46th pick in the NFL draft just signed a deal 2 years 17 million and really only the 1st year is guaranteed
Damon Harrison UDFA is still on the market.
Dontari Poe drafted 11th overall 2 year 10.5 million dollars and will be on his 4th team.
Those are just a few you who were this year crop of FA, and you also had Andrew Billings who signed for peanuts. The need for the position is there, but the value to draft them high is not.

Fair way to look at it.

Off topic a bit but I thought of it while pondering your point. Havent thought it through.

Wondering about the idea that DTs in general arent worth 1st round picks since they are part of a rotation, most of the time if not always.

Of course pressure from inside is difficult for a QB to overcome. Double edged sword I suppose.

But yeah if you profile as a DL that doesnt get to the QB, it's tough to justify the high pick.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

Fair way to look at it.

Off topic a bit but I thought of it while pondering your point. Havent thought it through.

Wondering about the idea that DTs in general arent worth 1st round picks since they are part of a rotation, most of the time if not always.

Of course pressure from inside is difficult for a QB to overcome. Double edged sword I suppose.

But yeah if you profile as a DL that doesnt get to the QB, it's tough to justify the high pick.

Javon Kinlaw is a 3 down DT who can get you in the neighborhood of 8 sacks per year and is a top 15 worthy pick. Jordan Elliott is another guy who will be in the 6-8 sack neighborhood and is a 3 down player as well who should be drafted towards the end of the first.

 

[kskboys]

Curious....what dont you like about Brown?

He concerns me as well but he is so likely out of our range I dont think much about him.

He looks a bit too fat to me. Remember Marcel Dareus was a "cant miss" guy also. Same deal.

And Dareus has been a stud.

 

[kskboys]

Fair way to look at it.

Off topic a bit but I thought of it while pondering your point. Havent thought it through.

Wondering about the idea that DTs in general arent worth 1st round picks since they are part of a rotation, most of the time if not always.

Of course pressure from inside is difficult for a QB to overcome. Double edged sword I suppose.

But yeah if you profile as a DL that doesnt get to the QB, it's tough to justify the high pick.

Unless you profile as a DL that helps a ton getting others to the QB.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

My nightmare?

That Cesar Ruiz gets taken one pick ahead of us at #17.

 

[cnuball21]

Not that I don't like Brown, just don't like him in the first round. He is going to be a great run stuffing DT who will push the pocket, get you 3-4 sacks per year but those guys are not worth 1st round draft picks.

You can go out and get 1-techs in FA relatively inexpensive every year in FA because of the position value or find them in the 2nd or 3rd day.
Danny Shelton drafted 12th overall. Signed for 2 years and 8 million and will be on his 3rd team going in his 6th year.
Linval Joseph the 46th pick in the NFL draft just signed a deal 2 years 17 million and really only the 1st year is guaranteed
Damon Harrison UDFA is still on the market.
Dontari Poe drafted 11th overall 2 year 10.5 million dollars and will be on his 4th team.
Those are just a few you who were this year crop of FA, and you also had Andrew Billings who signed for peanuts. The need for the position is there, but the value to draft them high is not.

I just don't buy into the narrative that Brown is a "run stuffing" DT. The reason scouts love him and he's being talked about as a 1st round DT is because he's really good against the run and pressuring the QB.

Brown is better than Kinlaw against the run, and his 35 QB pressures weren't that far behind Kinlaw's 40 pressures last year.

He may not be as flashy, but he's an incredibly safe prospect that is a very complete DT.

 

[beware_d-ware]

I just don't buy into the narrative that Brown is a "run stuffing" DT. The reason scouts love him and he's being talked about as a 1st round DT is because he's really good against the run and pressuring the QB.

Brown is better than Kinlaw against the run, and his 35 QB pressures weren't that far behind Kinlaw's 40 pressures last year.

He may not be as flashy, but he's an incredibly safe prospect that is a very complete DT.

Wish I could triple-like this.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

I just don't buy into the narrative that Brown is a "run stuffing" DT. The reason scouts love him and he's being talked about as a 1st round DT is because he's really good against the run and pressuring the QB.

Brown is better than Kinlaw against the run, and his 35 QB pressures weren't that far behind Kinlaw's 40 pressures last year.

He may not be as flashy, but he's an incredibly safe prospect that is a very complete DT.

I will take a safe pick in the second round who will be a good run stuffer, but at the very best he will be average pass rusher at DT. He will never be above average pass rusher. The league is a passing league, getting guys who can get to the passer or stop passes from being caught at a high level have far greater value than someone who can stop the run. Kinlaw is raw, and if healthy and refined he would be a top 10 player in the draft, and if Jordan Elliot learns how to play with better pad he is a guy who upside far exceeds Brown. This is all projecting, but in the first round you want a good level floor but long term you want value from the pick and taking Brown a non pass rushing d-line you will never get the first round value.

 

[cnuball21]

I will take a safe pick in the second round who will be a good run stuffer, but at the very best he will be average pass rusher at DT. He will never be above average pass rusher. The league is a passing league, getting guys who can get to the passer or stop passes from being caught at a high level have far greater value than someone who can stop the run. Kinlaw is raw, and if healthy and refined he would be a top 10 player in the draft, and if Jordan Elliot learns how to play with better pad he is a guy who upside far exceeds Brown. This is all projecting, but in the first round you want a good level floor but long term you want value from the pick and taking Brown a non pass rushing d-line you will never get the first round value.

If Brown can continue his high pressure rate and give you 4/5 sacks a year with elite run D he’s a top 10/15 DT in the NFL. It’s the combination of both that makes him impressive. Most guys are good at one or the other.

Look at Maliek Collins. He was a good pass rusher but he got pushed around in the run game and was pedestrian at best there. He’s likely a guy that will give you 6ish sacks a year but if he gets exposed against the run does that make him a great DT?

Id take someone like Brown over him without hesitation.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

If Brown can continue his high pressure rate and give you 4/5 sacks a year with elite run D he’s a top 10/15 DT in the NFL. It’s the combination of both that makes him impressive. Most guys are good at one or the other.

Look at Maliek Collins. He was a good pass rusher but he got pushed around in the run game and was pedestrian at best there. He’s likely a guy that will give you 6ish sacks a year but if he gets exposed against the run does that make him a great DT?

Id take someone like Brown over him without hesitation.

So would I but Collins picked 67, and not 17.

Brown will be a guy you will always say he is a solid player, but that's about it. I can find solid players on the 2nd day, but in the first round, you want to find difference-maker, and if you don't think that's an option move back and add more picks especially in this draft where you can add more good players.

 

[cnuball21]

So would I but Collins picked 67, and not 17.

Brown will be a guy you will always say he is a solid player, but that's about it. I can find solid players on the 2nd day, but in the first round, you want to find difference-maker, and if you don't think that's an option move back and add more picks especially in this draft where you can add more good players.

I guess the difference is a I see Brown as being well above average...and not just solid.

I think you can get solid in the 2nd round...but not Brown quality.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

I guess the difference is a I see Brown as being well above average...and not just solid.

I think you can get solid in the 2nd round...but not Brown quality.

Would you say he would be a huge difference from Joseph, or Snacks, because IMO he is going to be very similar.

 

[cnuball21]

Would you say he would be a huge difference from Joseph, or Snacks, because IMO he is going to be very similar.

I’d say he’s a slightly better version of Joseph in his best years...who was an elite run stopper and above average pass rusher.

At the time, he’s was a top 10 DT in the league outplaying his draft selection.

Way higher ceiling than Snacks.

 

[Kwyn]

- WR not named Lamb or Juedy
- CB not named Henderson
- Murray

Okuda

 

[Kwyn]

Who is the one REALISTIC pick at 17 that would make you smash the tv....

Any offensive player

I’d rather trade down seven or eight picks and take one of the second tier CB’s and a third.

 

[JBell]

After getting around to watching CB film.....my nightmare is AJ Terrell.