Zeke Advanced Efficiency Stats

[aria]

Blah blah blah.. 91 first downs vs 50 first downs.. 13-3 vs 5-11... Coincidence.. I think not.. All that speed and elusiveness and dancing around really worked out well for Barkley didn't it?

I have never once touted any football player as having single handedly done anything ... Every player, regardless of how good he is, is only 1 of 11 on the field at any given time. The Giants "improved" from 5-11 Barkley's rookie year to 4-12 his second year.. Halelujah! They look like they may be able to match or exceed that this year.. without him. Wonder if they will move on from him next year too..

First downs? That’s the new measuring stick? Wow, you’re really getting desperate to come up with things to defend him.

It’s ridiculous that you think Barkley could have somehow done more to improve their record and you conveniently failed to mention that he played with a high ankle sprain most of last season, missed 3 games and still got over a 1K yards. He also had a rookie QB most of the season who happened to lead the league in turnovers, I guess all those INT’s and fumbles were Barkley’s fault as well?


It’s also ironic that you’v been using the O line as an excuse for zeke but now you claim that the Giants O line wasn’t as bad as the stats suggest and try to blame it on Barkley. That’s rich! Have you ever thought that maybe he “danced around too much” because he had nowhere to run behind the O line? I know that’s hard for you to believe and I’m sure you have a list of more excuses but at least he tries to make something happen with nothing whereas zeke would be content or too slow do to much more than plow into a defender for a couple yards.

 

[shabazz]

I have to admit, I defended Zeke for a long time, but it is obvious at this point in his career that he is not the elite RB that he was early in his career. He signed the big contract and became a good RB instead of an elite RB. He doesn’t have the speed , the ability to make defenders miss, big play ability, etc that he displayed his first three years. Dallas didn’t make a mistake drafting him, but they made a mistake giving him such a big second contract. Personally, I can’t defend his level of play any longer.

Well said. It’s sure a big difference from his first 2 years when he was seeking contact and knocking heads.

What a difference from 2016 to the present for both Zeke and Dak as well

They may have to put their HOF bronze busts on hold for now.......

 

[RonnieT24]

First downs? That’s the new measuring stick? Wow, you’re really getting desperate to come up with things to defend him.

It’s ridiculous that you think Barkley could have somehow done more to improve their record and you conveniently failed to mention that he played with a high ankle sprain most of last season, missed 3 games and still got over a 1K yards. He also had a rookie QB most of the season who happened to lead the league in turnovers, I guess all those INT’s and fumbles were Barkley’s fault as well?


It’s also ironic that you’v been using the O line as an excuse for zeke but now you claim that the Giants O line wasn’t as bad as the stats suggest and try to blame it on Barkley. That’s rich! Have you ever thought that maybe he “danced around too much” because he had nowhere to run behind the O line? I know that’s hard for you to believe and I’m sure you have a list of more excuses but at least he tries to make something happen with nothing whereas zeke would be content or too slow do to much more than plow into a defender for a couple yards.

LOL! I gave you TEN measuring sticks and Zeke was superior in seven of them.. You're the one that keeps finding obscure made up nonsense about the Giants' o-line to try to prop up Barkley.. he of the 1.8 yards per carry this year.. behind the same "horrible" line that Wayne Gallman is averaging 4.0 behind.. And would ya look at that.. Alfred Morris is averaging 5.2... Just sayin.. Barkley "tries to make something happen..." Unfortunately for him, that something is a loss of yards all too often. What is the source of this "offensive line ranking" you keep touting? What are their criteria? How do they know when the line blocked up the intended hole but the back thought he saw something else can cut it back, resulting in a TFL? (Hint.. they don't...) Unless they were listening in on the headsets they don't even know what play was called. Oh and you asked if all Jones' INTs and fumbles were Barkley's fault? Some of them were.. because when your back puts you in 2nd and 15 the defense can really put the screws to the rookie QB.. And there's that whole blitz pickup thing.. Unless the Giants told him not to block just leak out and look for the dumpoff.. cause our line is so good we don't need you in blitz pickup. You tell me..

 

[jwooten15]

You mean actually feed him the ball is 'optimum circumstances'. We paid him 90 million to be the center of the offense, not to use as a decoy to pad Dak's stats. It's not his fault Boy Wonder uses him exclusively as a decoy, particularly on first down or Dak doesn't know how to select run on RPOs.

We get it, you like giving Zeke excuses. That’s your prerogative. I’m by no means saying Zeke is the only problem on the roster, but your lack of willingness to acknowledge his faults is kind of creepy.

 

[aria]

LOL! I gave you TEN measuring sticks and Zeke was superior in seven of them.. You're the one that keeps finding obscure made up nonsense about the Giants' o-line to try to prop up Barkley.. he of the 1.8 yards per carry this year.. behind the same "horrible" line that Wayne Gallman is averaging 4.0 behind.. And would ya look at that.. Alfred Morris is averaging 5.2... Just sayin.. Barkley "tries to make something happen..." Unfortunately for him, that something is a loss of yards all too often. What is the source of this "offensive line ranking" you keep touting? What are their criteria? How do they know when the line blocked up the intended hole but the back thought he saw something else can cut it back, resulting in a TFL? (Hint.. they don't...) Unless they were listening in on the headsets they don't even know what play was called. Oh and you asked if all Jones' INTs and fumbles were Barkley's fault? Some of them were.. because when your back puts you in 2nd and 15 the defense can really put the screws to the rookie QB.. And there's that whole blitz pickup thing.. Unless the Giants told him not to block just leak out and look for the dumpoff.. cause our line is so good we don't need you in blitz pickup. You tell me..

What is so made up about the Giants O line ranking? Please inform me, because the stats say otherwise. His 1.8 ypc was due to playing a whopping total of 19 snaps behind a horrendous O line with the bulk of them playing for the first time together, a center who has never played center before, a rookie LT who has been graded as one of the worst in the league, a RT who we let walk and was the third worse RT in the league and one decent guard. If you even watched the Pitt game you would no that there’s not a RB on this planet that could have done much better, if at all, then Barkley. He was getting hit within something like 1.5 secs of the ball being snapped, he barely had time to get his hands on the ball let alone make a football move. But this is all made up, right?

You want to try and compare the 19 snaps that Barkley played to Gallman and Morris? 15 snaps against one the best defenses in the league, and running behind an O line that is much worse than ours and was playing for the first time to what Gallman and Morris have done since then against much inferior teams and with an O line that has been improving? That’s weak as hell, it’s not even comparable. I guess Morris is one of the best RB’s in the league since he out rushed Barkley AND zeke when he was suspended or did you forget about that? More excuses inbound.

Here’s your offensive line stats, do you have anything better to compare it to? I would love to see it.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/offensive-line/2020

Barkley does suck at blocking and I’ve never said he’s better than zeke at blocking.

Ten measuring sticks? I don’t recall that. How about receptions? How about yards after catch? How about broken tackles? How about fumbles? How about yards from scrimmage?

 

[RonnieT24]

What is so made up about the Giants O line ranking? Please inform me, because the stats say otherwise. His 1.8 ypc was due to playing a whopping total of 19 snaps behind a horrendous O line with the bulk of them playing for the first time together, a center who has never played center before, a rookie LT who has been graded as one of the worst in the league, a RT who we let walk and was the third worse RT in the league and one decent guard. If you even watched the Pitt game you would no that there’s not a RB on this planet that could have done much better, if at all, then Barkley. He was getting hit within something like 1.5 secs of the ball being snapped, he barely had time to get his hands on the ball let alone make a football move. But this is all made up, right?

You want to try and compare the 19 snaps that Barkley played to Gallman and Morris? 15 snaps against one the best defenses in the league, and running behind an O line that is much worse than ours and was playing for the first time to what Gallman and Morris have done since then against much inferior teams and with an O line that has been improving? That’s weak as hell, it’s not even comparable. I guess Morris is one of the best RB’s in the league since he out rushed Barkley AND zeke when he was suspended or did you forget about that? More excuses inbound.

Here’s your offensive line stats, do you have anything better to compare it to? I would love to see it.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/offensive-line/2020

Barkley does suck at blocking and I’ve never said he’s better than zeke at blocking.

Ten measuring sticks? I don’t recall that. How about receptions? How about yards after catch? How about broken tackles? How about fumbles? How about yards from scrimmage?

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/zeke-advanced-efficiency-stats.468680/page-11

 

[Big_C_KU]

Zeke looked good the first 2 weeks running hard but then the fumbles came, then the OL got injured, then Pollard started to get more touches. His body language and effort seemed to go to trash. He’s not running hard, breaking tackles, or falling forward.

Fact is unless Dallas can find a trade partner to take Zeke’s contract and get decent value back, Dallas best bet is to run with Zeke/Pollard combo through 2022z Continue to move more towards an even time share. Following the 2022 season resign Pollard to a cheaper contract and draft a RB to pair with him in that draft. Cut Zeke for only a 6.7 mil dead cap hit.

 

[jwooten15]

Zeke looked good the first 2 weeks running hard but then the fumbles came, then the OL got injured, then Pollard started to get more touches. His body language and effort seemed to go to trash. He’s not running hard, breaking tackles, or falling forward.

That’s exactly what I noticed. He WAS running with some burst and motivation early on (especially in the Rams game), but that has all but disappeared.

It’s bad, but I saw a fire in Rico Dowdle when he ran just a couple times that I haven’t seen from Zeke in a lonnnnng time.

I can be more understanding if a guy just doesn’t have the talent to be successful. What drives me crazy, though, is lack of caring or effort.

 

[aria]

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/zeke-advanced-efficiency-stats.468680/page-11

And? What in gods holy name are you trying to point out? All you do is make excuse after excuse “the grass wasn’t mowed right” “the wind was coming out of the south” “the ball was over inflated”. What you pointed out aren’t measuring sticks in relation to zeke and you still have yet to acknowledge what an inferior O line Barkley has had but instead try to blame it on Barkley. You’re a joke dude, you just talk in circles..

 

[RonnieT24]

And? What in gods holy name are you trying to point out? All you do is make excuse after excuse “the grass wasn’t mowed right” “the wind was coming out of the south” “the ball was over inflated”. What you pointed out aren’t measuring sticks in relation to zeke and you still have yet to acknowledge what an inferior O line Barkley has had but instead try to blame it on Barkley. You’re a joke dude, you just talk in circles..

So once again you aren't interested in discussing facts.. Posting other people's bogus opinions because you're too insecure and too lacking in knowledge to stand on your own. Making up idiot strawman arguments then shooting them down.. You just wanna play this stupid argumentation game.. Fine... you'll have to play with someone else.. You are relegated back to troll status.

 

[aria]

So once again you aren't interested in discussing facts.. Posting other people's bogus opinions because you're too insecure and too lacking in knowledge to stand on your own. Making up idiot strawman arguments then shooting them down.. You just wanna play this stupid argumentation game.. Fine... you'll have to play with someone else.. You are relegated back to troll status.

You said you like PFF, I provided you a link BY PFF that had zeke ranked as the 30th RB and like everything you else when you’re proven wrong, you just ignored it. Do you understand? You complain about all my links and used PFF as YOUR REFERENCE OF CHOICE which still showed zeke to be much worse than you claim he is and now that’s not good enough. Pathetic. Nothing will be satisfactory for you, I hope you don‘t use this many excuses in real life.

 

[Aviano90]

I need to check to see if we are playing some poor run defenses soon that may help pad Zeke’s numbers a little bit.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

First downs? That’s the new measuring stick? Wow, you’re really getting desperate to come up with things to defend him.

It’s ridiculous that you think Barkley could have somehow done more to improve their record and you conveniently failed to mention that he played with a high ankle sprain most of last season, missed 3 games and still got over a 1K yards. He also had a rookie QB most of the season who happened to lead the league in turnovers, I guess all those INT’s and fumbles were Barkley’s fault as well?


It’s also ironic that you’v been using the O line as an excuse for zeke but now you claim that the Giants O line wasn’t as bad as the stats suggest and try to blame it on Barkley. That’s rich! Have you ever thought that maybe he “danced around too much” because he had nowhere to run behind the O line? I know that’s hard for you to believe and I’m sure you have a list of more excuses but at least he tries to make something happen with nothing whereas zeke would be content or too slow do to much more than plow into a defender for a couple yards.

Lol, exactly.

First downs is another stat that lacks context.

Which has more value?

A RB that helped convert three first downs on a 12 play, 65 yard drive that stalled-out and ended with a punt?

Or...

A running back that takes it to the house on a 65-yard run for a TD?

 

[khiladi]

We get it, you like giving Zeke excuses. That’s your prerogative. I’m by no means saying Zeke is the only problem on the roster, but your lack of willingness to acknowledge his faults is kind of creepy.

I already said Zeke has taken a step down. But that doesn’t mean your analysis of him against ‘stacked boxes’ is completely valid, considering Dallas uses him as a decoy in play-action and has done it for the past two years. And that includes Dak in RPO. The numbers clearly attest to this. Unlike with Linehan where they used Zeke heavily in play-action, Linehan actually made a concerted effort to run the ball. The only real difference between Moore and Linehan is Moore throwing more on shotgun on first down. And this year it is with a garbage OL that hasn’t gotten any chance to get any consistency in blocking based on personnel, let alone Moore’s play-calling.

Why do you have to take if so personal as well? Did I insult you?

 

[khiladi]

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...lling-snap-analysis-2019-season-dak-prescott/

Linehan was predictable in the most pedestrian of ways: he called running plays on more than 80% of the snaps the quarterback took from under center, and he called passing plays on more than 80% of the shotgun snaps.

In total, that was 411 runs, 20 play-action runs, 517 passes, and 160 play-action pass attempts.

A few things stand out.

More than 23% of Prescott’s pass attempts came off play-action (160 of 677).

Dallas used play-action almost as much from the shotgun (70) as they did when Prescott was under center (90).

Perhaps because they tried so many play-action passes from the shotgun, Moore called a lot of running plays from the shotgun (151). More than 35% of the Cowboys total rushing attempts (151 of 431) came from the shotgun.

Moore called running plays on 70% of the snaps when the quarterback took the snap from under center (280 runs on 400 plays).

The one area in which Moore can’t seem to escape the predictability of Linehan is how the Cowboys try to move the ball through the air. More than 82% of Prescott’s pass attempts come from the shotgun (557 of 677 pass attempts were from the shotgun). Similarly, when the Cowboys start in the shotgun, Moore sends in a passing play 78.6% of the time (557 pass attempts on 708 shotgun snaps).

A mere 17.7% of the passing plays called by Moore came when Prescott started under center (120 of 677), with 90 of those pass attempts coming off play-action.

Prescott attempted to execute a three-step, five-step, or seven-step drop on average of less than twice a game in 2019. That basic ratio has been true for every year that Prescott has been in the NFL.

DEFENSES KNOW WHEN DAK IS UNDER CENTER, they are basically going to run the ball, meaning they just got to stack the boxes. And even then, Moore is calling play-action for Dak when he’s passing.

Where exactly does one expect the run game to go with such a limited offense tailored to Dak and all these paper Tiger stats?

 

[RonnieT24]

Lol, exactly.

First downs is another stat that lacks context.

Which has more value?

A RB that helped convert three first downs on a 12 play, 65 yard drive that stalled-out and ended with a punt?

Or...

A running back that takes it to the house on a 65-yard run for a TD?

If a drive starts on the 25 and moves 65 yards the ball will be on the opponent's 10 yard line. Not a lot of teams punt from there.. How can you rep CalPoly and be that bad at math?

As to your second point.. If the running back who took one to the house for 65 yards then had 12 carries for 11 yards the rest of the way but the first guy consistently moved the chains and had say 50 yards on 12 carries and helped his team score say 3 TDs and a FG while the highlight reel guy helped his team score 10 points and spend a lot of time in 2nd and long.. and punt a lot more. As you say.. "context.."

Considering Zeke generally scores more TDs and generally plays on a higher scoring offense than Barkley.. well.. you draw your own conclusion.

 

[aria]

If a drive starts on the 25 and moves 65 yards the ball will be on the opponent's 10 yard line. Not a lot of teams punt from there.. How can you rep CalPoly and be that bad at math?

As to your second point.. If the running back who took one to the house for 65 yards then had 12 carries for 11 yards the rest of the way but the first guy consistently moved the chains and had say 50 yards on 12 carries and helped his team score say 3 TDs and a FG while the highlight reel guy helped his team score 10 points and spend a lot of time in 2nd and long.. and punt a lot more. As you say.. "context.."

Considering Zeke generally scores more TDs and generally plays on a higher scoring offense than Barkley.. well.. you draw your own conclusion.

And that conclusion is zeke has had a much better line, much better QB, much better coach, much better defense and much better offensive weapons surrounding him. Context.

zeke first 2 years behind a top 5 O line
25 TD’s

Barkley first 2 years behind a bottom 5 O line (missed 3 games)
23 TD’s

Huge difference there, great point Ronnie!

 

[RonnieT24]

And that conclusion is zeke has had a much better line, much better QB, much better coach, much better defense and much better offensive weapons surrounding him. Context.

zeke first 2 years behind a top 5 O line
25 TD’s

Barkley first 2 years behind a bottom 5 O line (missed 3 games)
23 TD’s

Huge difference there, great point Ronnie!

Zeke's team offense scoring in his first two years

2016 - 26.3 < ~~~ with rookie QB (sat out final game of the season.. resting)
2017 - 22.1 <~~~ missed 6 games suspension.. I know you don't watch the Cowboys that closely so you may not have known that Zeke only played 10 games that year.

Barkley's team offense scoring while he was racking up all those highlights..

2018 - 23.1
2019 - 21.3 <~~~~ with rookie QB

Zeke scored 25 TDs in 25 games while Barkley was scoring 23 TDs in 29 games?

Soooo... one guy scores more TDs and not coincidentally his team scores more points.. One guy gets a pass because he had to play part of one season with a rookie QB.. the other guy had his best season with a rookie QB..

Yeah.. makes sense to ... well .. somebody..

 

[aria]

Zeke's team offense scoring in his first two years

2016 - 26.3 < ~~~ with rookie QB (sat out final game of the season.. resting)
2017 - 22.1 <~~~ missed 6 games suspension.. I know you don't watch the Cowboys that closely so you may not have known that Zeke only played 10 games that year.

Barkley's team offense scoring while he was racking up all those highlights..

2018 - 23.1
2019 - 21.3 <~~~~ with rookie QB

Zeke scored 25 TDs in 25 games while Barkley was scoring 23 TDs in 29 games?

Soooo... one guy scores more TDs and not coincidentally his team scores more points.. One guy gets a pass because he had to play part of one season with a rookie QB.. the other guy had his best season with a rookie QB..

Yeah.. makes sense to ... well .. somebody..

Ohhhhh....I see, kind of like when you were bringing up Barkleys stats from last year but failed to mention he sat out 3 games, was injured most of the season and had a rookie QB?

I’ve always said TD’s are one of the worst stats, right up there with total yards which almost always correlate with total carries which is a result of play calling. Notice how I’ve never knocked zeke for the 6 TD’s he got one year? Who cares?

There are so many different factors when it comes to TD’s like play calling, position on the field, OTHER teammates. The only reason I even brought it up was because you did.

I also noticed you brought up his suspension for six games yet he still carried the ball 25 more times than Barkley. Think that may have something to do with coaching? People now bash Garrett for giving zeke the ball so much and often use it as an excuse for his lack of production now but if he didn’t get the ball as much then they complained that we have a great RB we don’t utilize. Point being, if it weren’t for Garrett or Moore, zeke would have never carried the ball as much and therefore he wouldn’t have those stats you like to use to prop him up.

Had zeke been playing with the Giants O line and Ben McAdoo then his stats wouldn’t have been any etter than Barkley’s, probably worse because he can’t make people miss when there’s nowhere to run.

And yet you still refuse to acknowledge that Barkley had one of the worst O lines his rookie year, and in 2018, and zeke had one of the best. You’re so delusional you even blamed the O line on Barkley. Even though this year’s Cowboys O line is ranked 10th in RB I guess that’s zeke’s fault according to your logic. O lines make the RB most of the time, not the other way around.

 

[aria]

@RonnieT24 you also forgot to mention that one QB got rookie of the year and the other rookie QB led the league in turnovers but surely that has nothing to do with the total points, does it?

So according to you, Barkley made the Giants O line one of the worst in the league, not the other way around, and zeke would have made one of the worst O lines in the league one of the best. He also would have made Jones rookie of the year and prevented most, if not all, of his turnovers and he would have carried the Giants to more wins. Conveniently, now you use coaching, Dak’s absence and the O line as an excuse for zeke’s lackluster performance.

Could you possibly come up with anymore hypocritical, double standard excuses to defend the ewok? Do you hold him responsible for anything that isn’t viewed as a positive? I bet you would fall on the sword for him, wouldn’t you?