Zeke and Barkley, has he regressed?

[Cap12]

You folks need to start reading threads. This was already addressed, Zeke is not the only one in the league facing these 8 man boxes.

That's true Matt, but most of those backs aren't producing like Zeke still is. Despite this, Zeke is still ranked #7 in the NFL with a QB that most team's don't resepct in the passing game (so there is nothing to make teams give up the stacked box). That and the fact the Cowboys played two of the top interior run defenses in the NFL, shows how good Zeke ghas been under the circumstances.

Hopefully Dak will contrinue to shake off the rust and excel in the spread'em out, RPO system. It's not where I wanted Dak to be in 2018, after his great 2016, but if that is what it takes for us to win, let's go back to 2016.

 

[starfan1]

You folks need to start reading threads. This was already addressed, Zeke is not the only one in the league facing these 8 man boxes.

and Dak is not the only QB in the league that teams are playing to make beat them. Anyone knows it not news, Stack the box make Dak beat you. The blocking from the line needs to improve but if you dont think Dak,s regression has a bit to do with how teams are now playing us well I guess you don't watch much football.Its not the only reason but its part of it and this is coming from a big Dak fan. Just a realistic one as well

 

[mattjames2010]

That's true Matt, but most of those backs aren't producing like Zeke still is. Despite this, Zeke is still ranked #7 in the NFL with a QB that most team's don't resepct in the passing game (so there is nothing to make teams give up the stacked box). That and the fact the Cowboys played two of the top interior run defenses in the NFL, shows how good Zeke ghas been under the circumstances.

Hopefully Dak will contrinue to shake off the rust and excel in the spread'em out, RPO system. It's not where I wanted Dak to be in 2018, after his great 2016, but if that is what it takes for us to win, let's go back to 2016.

This isn't the problem, the problem is folks stating Zeke is facing this at a high rate - he just isn't. There are RBs facing more 8 man boxes than Zeke.

I have no doubt Zeke is running better than other RBs, have you seen the list of RBs this year that are leading the league in rushing after two games? They are all scrubs. And Zeke hasn't exactly lit anything up, he's had a couple of good games.

Let's settle down with making Zeke out to be prime Adrian Peterson here dragging defenders to the end zone.

 

[mattjames2010]

and Dak is not the only QB in the league that teams are playing to make beat them. Anyone knows it not news, Stack the box make Dak beat you. The blocking from the line needs to improve but if you dont think Dak,s regression has a bit to do with how teams are now playing us well I guess you don't watch much football.Its not the only reason but its part of it and this is coming from a big Dak fan. Just a realistic one as well

....but teams aren't "stacking the box" against us. At least, not anymore than what other RBs are seeing.

 

[Thomas82]

I disagree. Playcalling has been excellent by Linehan (even the Carolina game). Outside of the dumb penalities, the OL has been okay, but really missing Fredrick for his ability to block at the second level to free Zeke for bigger runs up the middle. This is not a knock on Looney. He's been steady, but he's a JAG while Travis is an All-Pro. The drop off isn't as worse as we feared, but it is palpable especially in the running game.

Ok, then we'll agree to disagree.

 

[Thomas82]

He has not regressed at all. Teams have stacked the box and the OL has been average (that will happen when Garrett gives them the preseason off). Zeke is fast enough to get to the edge plus he can catch so it is amazing Linehan doesn't sweep, quick pitch, or run more screens to him. Just figure out how to get him the ball with some space and he will make plays. The O scheme is terrible. Been saying it for years.

My thoughts exactly!!

 

[beware_d-ware]

Scott Linehan did Zeke dirty by forcing him to run straight at Snacks Harrison for half the night. I mean, Frederick stuggles with Snacks, of course he's going to wreck Looney. So there was a lot of 1 yard runs that a smarter coordinator frankly would never call.

Zeke's still looking pretty good out there. His red zone score from 6 yards out was a play your average back's not going to make.

 

[beware_d-ware]

Barkley is more gifted than Zeke. He'll make something out of nothing. We saw that yesterday how he was still a threat even through we shut down the run. You shut down the run on us and Zeke is basically useless.

With a dominant OL and a run-oriented scheme, Zeke can ball out like he did his rookie year. That being said, that's why you don't invest a top 5 pick on a RB. They need too many other things to happen around them.

Has there ever been a game where we've even tried feeding Zeke 10+ passes? I think Zeke could look pretty Saquon-ish if a smarter coordinator like Shurmer was utilizing him.

Barkley wasn't getting squat inside, so the Giants fed him flare pass after flare pass and used it as an ersatz running game. And it basically worked, Saquon got about 5 YPC on his receptions. If Garrett and Linehan were in that situation, they'd keep trying to beat Zeke up the middle and hoping that he'd break one.

 

[Thomas82]

Scott Linehan did Zeke dirty by forcing him to run straight at Snacks Harrison for half the night. I mean, Frederick stuggles with Snacks, of course he's going to wreck Looney. So there was a lot of 1 yard runs that a smarter coordinator frankly would never call.

Zeke's still looking pretty good out there. His goal line score from 6 yards out was a play your average back's not going to make.

Exactly!! This is why I said in a previous post that we need more outside runs against defenses that have a stout interior.

 

[Cap12]

This isn't the problem, the problem is folks stating Zeke is facing this at a high rate - he just isn't. There are RBs facing more 8 man boxes than Zeke.

I have no doubt Zeke is running better than other RBs, have you seen the list of RBs this year that are leading the league in rushing after two games? They are all scrubs. And Zeke hasn't exactly lit anything up, he's had a couple of good games.

Let's settle down with making Zeke out to be prime Adrian Peterson here dragging defenders to the end zone.

I don't have the numbers for the NY game, but Zeke faced a stacked box 53% of the time in the Carolina game according to Broaddus. That is a high number. Landon Collins said they would do it to stop Zeke before the Giants game and I certainly saw a fair number of stacked looks even from my TV screen. From what I recall, the play where Dak/Austin beat Jenkins was on a stacked look with "Single Safety high". Jenkins whiffed on his chuck at the line and Austin made him pay. You are really beating the drum on this Zeke not facing stacked box issue. Not sure why, but you also have to look at tendencies and down and distance when you look at that stat. Dak's failure to execute and bad penalties led to fewer stacked boxes than Zeke would have to have faced in the Carolina game (if 53% was not bad enough).

The jury is out on whether Zeke will be the next AD, but considering everything, he's playing well so far in 2018. Wait until our line gels and opponent run Ds get worse Pederson played against his share of bad run Ds in his prime. Let's see how Zeke plays when he finally finds one (won't be on Monday night, lol).

 

[mattjames2010]

Has there ever been a game where we've even tried feeding Zeke 10+ passes? I think Zeke could look pretty Saquon-ish if a smarter coordinator like Shurmer was utilizing him.

Barkley wasn't getting squat inside, so the Giants fed him flare pass after flare pass and used it as an ersatz running game. And it basically worked, Saquon got about 5 YPC on his receptions. If Garrett and Linehan were in that situation, they'd keep trying to beat Zeke up the middle and hoping that he'd break one.

You folks really downplay running routes, even for an RB. If it was so easy, most RBs in the league would be great receivers. That just isn't how it works.

I'm sure Zeke could do something receiving here and there, even Peterson did once in a while. He doesn't seem to be an RB that has much versatility in that department though.

 

[Cap12]

Has there ever been a game where we've even tried feeding Zeke 10+ passes? I think Zeke could look pretty Saquon-ish if a smarter coordinator like Shurmer was utilizing him.

Barkley wasn't getting squat inside, so the Giants fed him flare pass after flare pass and used it as an ersatz running game. And it basically worked, Saquon got about 5 YPC on his receptions. If Garrett and Linehan were in that situation, they'd keep trying to beat Zeke up the middle and hoping that he'd break one.

Yeah, Barkley looked great on Sunday night, NOT. I'm tired of this BS about Linehan. So far, he's having a better season than Shurmer. By the way, 5 yards per reception is pretty weak. Barkley's numbers are even worse per catch (which wouldn't be so bad).

 

[mattjames2010]

I don't have the numbers for the NY game, but Zeke faced a stacked box 53% of the time in the Carolina game according to Broaddus. That is a high number. Landon Collins said they would do it to stop Zeke before the Giants game and I certainly saw a fair number of stacked looks even from my TV screen. From what I recall, the play where Dak/Austin beat Jenkins was on a stacked look with "Single Safety high". Jenkins whiffed on his chuck at the line and Austin made him pay. You are really beating the drum on this Zeke not facing stacked box issue. Not sure why, but you also have to look at tendencies and down and distance when you look at that stat. Dak's failure to execute and bad penalties led to fewer stacked boxes than Zeke would have to have faced in the Carolina game (if 53% was not bad enough).

The jury is out on whether Zeke will be the next AD, but considering everything, he's playing well so far in 2018. Wait until our line gels and opponent run Ds get worse Pederson played against his share of bad run Ds in his prime. Let's see how Zeke plays when he finally finds one (won't be on Monday night, lol).

Have you compared that number to other teams? Go do that.

 

[Cap12]

You folks really downplay running routes, even for an RB. If it was so easy, most RBs in the league would be great receivers. That just isn't how it works.

I'm sure Zeke could do something receiving here and there, even Peterson did once in a while. He doesn't seem to be an RB that has much versatility in that department though.

Zeke is a better receiver and blocker than AD. Not close.

 

[Cap12]

Have you compared that number to other teams? Go do that.

Have you? What are the numbers (and please don't go by the pencil pushers at Amazon)? Nex Gen stats are simply not reliable in this because they don't take into account down/distance/offensive tendencies into their 8+ Man stats.

 

[G2]

I disagree. Playcalling has been excellent by Linehan (even the Carolina game). Outside of the dumb penalities, the OL has been okay, but really missing Fredrick for his ability to block at the second level to free Zeke for bigger runs up the middle. This is not a knock on Looney. He's been steady, but he's a JAG while Travis is an All-Pro. The drop off isn't as worse as we feared, but it is palpable especially in the running game.

I agree. Fredrick blocks better into the 2nd level.

 

[G2]

This isn't the problem, the problem is folks stating Zeke is facing this at a high rate - he just isn't. There are RBs facing more 8 man boxes than Zeke.

I have no doubt Zeke is running better than other RBs, have you seen the list of RBs this year that are leading the league in rushing after two games? They are all scrubs. And Zeke hasn't exactly lit anything up, he's had a couple of good games.

Let's settle down with making Zeke out to be prime Adrian Peterson here dragging defenders to the end zone.

What are the numbers?

 

[Aviano90]

Have you compared that number to other teams? Go do that.

I don't think it was referring to stacked boxes (8+ in the box). I believe that number came from a tweet and it was talking about "loaded boxes" in which they are saying there were at least 1 more defender than blocker. I can't find the tweet though.

Next Gen stats can give us the stacked boxes but you can spread the defense out with play calling to help prevent stacked boxes. I want to say it was PFF that used the "loaded box" stat that Broaddus referred. I even believe it was posted on this site last week in a couple of different threads. I've never seen it before and I can't find it online to see how it compares with everyone else, but we do know for sure there are a lot of RBs out there that face more 8+ men in the box than Zeke does.

 

[mattjames2010]

Zeke is a better receiver and blocker than AD. Not close.

Based on what? Adrian Peterson has taken screens to the house before. At his old man age, he just had a 52 yard reception a week ago. He had 3 catches for 30 yards and a 10 yards a catch average in his last game. Looking at his averages early on in his career, pretty similar to Zeke - 60 yard TD reception his rookie year, a 63 yard reception his third year, averaging around 30 catches.

Pretty apt comparison, Zeke just isn't as good of a runner as AP.

 

[mattjames2010]

Have you? What are the numbers (and please don't go by the pencil pushers at Amazon)? Nex Gen stats are simply not reliable in this because they don't take into account down/distance/offensive tendencies into their 8+ Man stats.

It was posted in here already, a few pages back...

The claim was the same as last season, he was seeing a loaded box. But it's a myth, he wasn't seeing it anymore than most and it wast still above 50%.