Zeke Elliott expendable?

[aria]

Wow! What kind of drunken binge were you on during the six games Zeke missed? Every part of the offense focuses on and goes through Zeke but yeah he's expendable!

In 2017 Morris had less than half the attempts and over half of Zeke’s total yards. But I’m sure there’s plenty of excuses of why he did so well. I’m sure it had nothing to do with the O line and other teams were just “letting” him run down their throats, right? Yawn.

 

[beware_d-ware]

Force fed? The guy is a stud— and is as I said originally— the straw that stirs the drink— so it makes sense to give him the rock considering his talent and our offensive philosophy.

The guy is averaging 101 yards per game over his career, has not missed a game due to iniury, and is an every down back. What more do you want? It’s like you’re upset he is a workhorse back lol

Your insistance that Zeke was “not dominant” last year is just wrong. He had 1434 and a 4.7 ypc avg. Just let it go man— give it up— sorry his stats don’t line up with your narrative as nice as you want them to. Since you want “proof” and all— here is a link that “proves” Zeke won the rushing title last year (2 out of his 3 years) and could have easily pushed to win it in 2017 considering the pace he was on

https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/s/24...nds-NFL-rushing-title-for-2018-127053451/Amp/

Finally, Murray did not get 1800 yards “behind the same OL”. Not even close. Leary was LG, not Williams. TFred was C, not Looney. Tyron was not ailing when Demarco was playing, and Doug Free was RT, not Collins. So no, it was not the same OL.

The reason I bring up Rod Smith is to highlight how ridiculous your assertion is that our OL alone is what makes our offense work. If that were true, Rod’s numbers would be better— but they aren’t— ergo, RB talent makes a big difference when it comes to production in the ground game.

Worship a player? Hardly. But I have been watching football for 3 decades and know a generational talent when I see it. Barring injury, Zeke can be one of the greatest to ever play the game. You don’t let those guys walk away and get a gold jacket somewhere else. You just don’t.

Yep.

Zeke was given an OL that had at least 2 rookies or backups starting on it at every point in the season, and he rushed for the same YPC average as Murray did behind the Offensive Line Of Death. And when he was given a similar line to Murray in '16, Zeke outrushed him. There's no question that Zeke is the better player than Murray, and Murray was a 3 time Pro Bowler.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

Is 5 ypc the new magic numbers for backs these days? Remember when 4 or more was good! When teams stack the box against you those are still good numbers to me.

 

[mattjames2010]

Force fed? The guy is a stud— and is as I said originally— the straw that stirs the drink— so it makes sense to give him the rock considering his talent and our offensive philosophy.

The guy is averaging 101 yards per game over his career, has not missed a game due to iniury, and is an every down back. What more do you want? It’s like you’re upset he is a workhorse back lol

Your insistance that Zeke was “not dominant” last year is just wrong. He had 1434 and a 4.7 ypc avg. Just let it go man— give it up— sorry his stats don’t line up with your narrative as nice as you want them to. Since you want “proof” and all— here is a link that “proves” Zeke won the rushing title last year (2 out of his 3 years) and could have easily pushed to win it in 2017 considering the pace he was on

https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/s/24...nds-NFL-rushing-title-for-2018-127053451/Amp/

Finally, Murray did not get 1800 yards “behind the same OL”. Not even close. Leary was LG, not Williams. TFred was C, not Looney. Tyron was not ailing when Demarco was playing, and Doug Free was RT, not Collins. So no, it was not the same OL.

The reason I bring up Rod Smith is to highlight how ridiculous your assertion is that our OL alone is what makes our offense work. If that were true, Rod’s numbers would be better— but they aren’t— ergo, RB talent makes a big difference when it comes to production in the ground game.

Worship a player? Hardly. But I have been watching football for 3 decades and know a generational talent when I see it. Barring injury, Zeke can be one of the greatest to ever play the game. You don’t let those guys walk away and get a gold jacket somewhere else. You just don’t.

> The straw that stirs the drink

yet, without him we went 3-3 and with him we went 3-5 and were forced to bring him help. You're not winning this one, your argument is just bogus.

> The guy is averaging 101 yards per game over his career, has not missed a game due to iniury, and is an every down back. What more do you want? It’s like you’re upset he is a workhorse back lol

My argument is that volume inflates his numbers, I made this clear.

> Your insistance that Zeke was “not dominant” last year is just wrong. He had 1434 and a 4.7 ypc avg. Just let it go man— give it up— sorry his stats don’t line up with your narrative as nice as you want them to. Since you want “proof” and all— here is a link that “proves” Zeke won the rushing title last year (2 out of his 3 years) and could have easily pushed to win it in 2017 considering the pace he was on

Again, you don't understand....anything

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/rushing.htm

"Dominant" last year was Barkley - he had 261 carries, 1,307 yards, and 11 TDs. Not only would he have had more yards than Zeke if he had similar carries, he had 5 more TDs despite having far fewer carries. You getting this? You might be getting a headache at this point.

> Finally, Murray did not get 1800 yards “behind the same OL”. Not even close. Leary was LG, not Williams. TFred was C, not Looney. Tyron was not ailing when Demarco was playing, and Doug Free was RT, not Collins. So no, it was not the same OL.

Zeke's best season didn't come in 2018, genius. It came in 2016. You're the one bringing up Zeke's entire career.

We'll leave it at that. The rest of your babble won't be entertained. I'll give you one last shot at making a good argument. NEXT!

 

[Hawkeye19]

> The straw that stirs the drink

yet, without him we went 3-3 and with him we went 3-5 and were forced to bring him help. You're not winning this one, your argument is just bogus.

> The guy is averaging 101 yards per game over his career, has not missed a game due to iniury, and is an every down back. What more do you want? It’s like you’re upset he is a workhorse back lol

My argument is that volume inflates his numbers, I made this clear.

> Your insistance that Zeke was “not dominant” last year is just wrong. He had 1434 and a 4.7 ypc avg. Just let it go man— give it up— sorry his stats don’t line up with your narrative as nice as you want them to. Since you want “proof” and all— here is a link that “proves” Zeke won the rushing title last year (2 out of his 3 years) and could have easily pushed to win it in 2017 considering the pace he was on

Again, you don't understand....anything

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/rushing.htm

"Dominant" last year was Barkley - he had 261 carries, 1,307 yards, and 11 TDs. Not only would he have had more yards than Zeke if he had similar carries, he had 5 more TDs despite having far fewer carries. You getting this? You might be getting a headache at this point.

> Finally, Murray did not get 1800 yards “behind the same OL”. Not even close. Leary was LG, not Williams. TFred was C, not Looney. Tyron was not ailing when Demarco was playing, and Doug Free was RT, not Collins. So no, it was not the same OL.

Zeke's best season didn't come in 2018, genius. It came in 2016. You're the one bringing up Zeke's entire career.

We'll leave it at that. The rest of your babble won't be entertained. I'll give you one last shot at making a good argument. NEXT!

Dude... lets go back to your original counter point. I said Zeke is the straw that stirs the drink for our offense. You said its the OL.

My point is simple: Zeke is the focus of our offensive gameplan and production. Everyone else eats after him. Your “point” that Barkley would have had as many yards as Zeke if he had as many touches— PROVES MY POINT lol... thank you.

Zeke has won the rushing title 2 out of his 3 years in the NFL and was on pace to win it in 2017 were it not for the suspension. The numbers he has put up in his first three years put him next to Campbell and Dickerson when it comes to production. What is not to love? You criticize him for the volume of touches?! That is his value my man... he is a classic workhorse and he has outworked everybody in the NFL since he has been in the league.

You cling to our record (3-5) as some kind of proof that Zeke is not the offensive focus of our offense. In your mind— somehow the fact we had to bring Cooper in means Zeke is not the straw that stirs the drink... I don’t think I need to elaborate on why it’s essential in the NFL to avoid being one dimensional— do I?!

We had no threat of a downfield passing game— so defenses could key only on Zeke. Cooper’s addition made defenses respect the entire arsenal of our offense which led to us being able to more effectively run our offense.

In no way was Cooper’s trade a replacement of Zeke’s production— rather it enhanced it— as Zeke won the rushing title (again) to prove it.

Now— I am tired of going around in circles with you— so I will just agree to disagree with you.

 

[Jake]

In 2017 Morris had less than half the attempts and over half of Zeke’s total yards. But I’m sure there’s plenty of excuses of why he did so well. I’m sure it had nothing to do with the O line and other teams were just “letting” him run down their throats, right? Yawn.

How did the team do during Zeke's absence? Morris' yards meant little in 27-7, 37-9, and 28-6 losses that ultimately cost them a playoff spot.

 

[mattjames2010]

Dude... lets go back to your original counter point. I said Zeke is the straw that stirs the drink for our offense. You said its the OL.

My point is simple: Zeke is the focus of our offensive gameplan and production. Everyone else eats after him. Your “point” that Barkley would have had as many yards as Zeke if he had as many touches— PROVES MY POINT lol... thank you.

Zeke has won the rushing title 2 out of his 3 years in the NFL and was on pace to win it in 2017 were it not for the suspension. The numbers he has put up in his first three years put him next to Campbell and Dickerson when it comes to production. What is not to love? You criticize him for the volume of touches?! That is his value my man... he is a classic workhorse and he has outworked everybody in the NFL since he has been in the league.

You cling to our record (3-5) as some kind of proof that Zeke is not the offensive focus of our offense. In your mind— somehow the fact we had to bring Cooper in means Zeke is not the straw that stirs the drink... I don’t think I need to elaborate on why it’s essential in the NFL to avoid being one dimensional— do I?!

We had no threat of a downfield passing game— so defenses could key only on Zeke. Cooper’s addition made defenses respect the entire arsenal of our offense which led to us being able to more effectively run our offense.

In no way was Cooper’s trade a replacement of Zeke’s production— rather it enhanced it— as Zeke won the rushing title (again) to prove it.

Now— I am tired of going around in circles with you— so I will just agree to disagree with you.

The original post doesn't need to be reminded to me, because nothing has changed.

With Zeke - 3-5 and needed additional help
Without Zeke - 3-3

What changed here?

Without Zeke and a similar line in 2014 - we had a 1,800 yard rusher, and went 12-4

> My point is simple: Zeke is the focus of our offensive gameplan and production. Everyone else eats after him. Your “point” that Barkley would have had as many yards as Zeke if he had as many touches— PROVES MY POINT lol... thank you.

...this doesn't prove your point at all. This is cringe. You get the Giants offense, despite Barkley's performance last year, they weren't very good and won very few games? Holy cow.

I'm ignoring the third paragraph because we have been over this, understand volume. Moving on.

> You cling to our record (3-5) as some kind of proof that Zeke is not the offensive focus of our offense. In your mind— somehow the fact we had to bring Cooper in means Zeke is not the straw that stirs the drink... I don’t think I need to elaborate on why it’s essential in the NFL to avoid being one dimensional— do I?!

When you SPECIFICALLY SAY that Zeke is what "stirs" - but when I look at the record with him and WITHOUT him and they are similar, it kinda ruins your point, bud. Are you going brain dead or something?

The rest of your post is excuse making. You lost.

Who is next?

 

[mattjames2010]

How did the team do during Zeke's absence? Morris' yards meant little in 27-7, 37-9, and 28-6 losses that ultimately cost them a playoff spot.

We went 3-3. We went 3-5 last year before needing to bring in additional help.

Also, in 2017 Zeke was part of an embarrassing loss against the Broncos, only put up 12 points against the Seahawks, had our first shut out since 2003 against the Colts in 2018, was held to 8 points against the Panthers, 13 points against Seattle again.

 

[Corso]

I like it when people declare wins and losses on a message board.
Puts hair on their chest.

 

[kskboys]

We went 3-3. We went 3-5 last year before needing to bring in additional help.

Also, in 2017 Zeke was part of an embarrassing loss against the Broncos, only put up 12 points against the Seahawks, had our first shut out since 2003 against the Colts in 2018, was held to 8 points against the Panthers, 13 points against Seattle again.

The record thing you keep trying to use as some sort of proof isn't helping you. Giants were 5-11 w/ Barkley. Since you're using Barkley as the gauge, you're contradicting yourself using W/L record as the thrust of your argument.

 

[kskboys]

I like it when people declare wins and losses on a message board.
Puts hair on their chest.

Have you ever noticed that the people who declare themselves the winner are always the loser?

 

[Jake]

We went 3-3. We went 3-5 last year before needing to bring in additional help.

Also, in 2017 Zeke was part of an embarrassing loss against the Broncos, only put up 12 points against the Seahawks, had our first shut out since 2003 against the Colts in 2018, was held to 8 points against the Panthers, 13 points against Seattle again.

The Cowboys are 33-18 in Zeke's three seasons: 30-15 with him, 3-3 without him.

They have flaws with him, and even more without him.

 

[mattjames2010]

The record thing you keep trying to use as some sort of proof isn't helping you. Giants were 5-11 w/ Barkley. Since you're using Barkley as the gauge, you're contradicting yourself using W/L record as the thrust of your argument.

No, that HELPS me. Because I wouldn't have wanted Barkley in the top 5 either. My argument isn't that Zeke sucks, it's that the RB position isn't valuable enough to team wins to overpay or overdraft.

This isn't pro-Barkley. Despite Barkleys performance last season, it didn't result in Ws or a powerful offense.

 

[Corso]

Have you ever noticed that the people who declare themselves the winner are always the loser?

That, I don't care about. And I find this argument going on interesting.
I just find it funny, like they're going to get a prize, or something.

 

[TexasHillbilly]

i really like the way Stephen and JJ are running the salary cap these days . I think they finally realize the importance of a stout defense to win championships, and avoiding monster contracts on one or two super stars. The Patriots blue print basically .
Zeke is a top tier RB , but Stephen is not going to spend silly , Gurley like money, on a RB. It is well documented that the RB position is the easiest to replace and rookie RBs can contribute immediately . Look at the cowboys after Demarco Murray departed.

If i were Stephen i would go after a quality RB in round 3 or 4 . Rodney Anderson from Oklahoma will probably be available. That guy is a beast and would be a steal . Brice Love /Stanford is another .

Not sure I believe that. D Murray left and our running game went to pot really quick. Just sayin

 

[TheHerd]

. I think they finally realize the importance of a stout defense to win championships, and avoiding monster contracts on one or two super stars. The Patriots blue print basically .

Patriots blueprint is Hoodie, Brady, and a complete shiate show division. That's pretty hard to replicate.

 

[kskboys]

Not sure I believe that. D Murray left and our running game went to pot really quick. Just sayin

Talent matters at RB. It's not the HR hitters that matter, it's the tough yards that matter. Murray was a master at twisting and turning and getting 2-5 yards when there was nothing there. Zeke is the same way. Randle was not. Also to be considered is that we had no QB that year, however.

Many factors contribute, as always.

 

[Hawkeye19]

The original post doesn't need to be reminded to me, because nothing has changed.

With Zeke - 3-5 and needed additional help
Without Zeke - 3-3

What changed here?

Without Zeke and a similar line in 2014 - we had a 1,800 yard rusher, and went 12-4

> My point is simple: Zeke is the focus of our offensive gameplan and production. Everyone else eats after him. Your “point” that Barkley would have had as many yards as Zeke if he had as many touches— PROVES MY POINT lol... thank you.

...this doesn't prove your point at all. This is cringe. You get the Giants offense, despite Barkley's performance last year, they weren't very good and won very few games? Holy cow.

I'm ignoring the third paragraph because we have been over this, understand volume. Moving on.

> You cling to our record (3-5) as some kind of proof that Zeke is not the offensive focus of our offense. In your mind— somehow the fact we had to bring Cooper in means Zeke is not the straw that stirs the drink... I don’t think I need to elaborate on why it’s essential in the NFL to avoid being one dimensional— do I?!

When you SPECIFICALLY SAY that Zeke is what "stirs" - but when I look at the record with him and WITHOUT him and they are similar, it kinda ruins your point, bud. Are you going brain dead or something?

The rest of your post is excuse making. You lost.

Who is next?

It is clear you don’t understand what the phrase “the straw that stirs the drink” means in this context.

I am saying Zeke is the focus of our offense. His production clearly validates that point. I just don’t understand how any rational person can even argue that point. Your logic is just a mess man...

You are saying bc we went 3-5 with him, and 3-3 without him— this proves he is somehow NOT the focus of our offense (the “straw”) ? Doesn’t make sense. Sorry— your argument is just weird considering my point that anyone that watches football can see:

Zeke eats before anyone else and is the largest chunk of our offense’s production.

Your point about DeMarco is not really valid by the way... 1. Zeke outgained him (as a rookie) running behind the OL (minus Leary who was a superior run blocking LG) and 2. Zeke’s first 3 year production blows Murray’s out of the water

Your contention that any RB can run behind our OL (basically) is a giant assumption. If you can’t tell that there is a qualitative difference between the way Zeke runs the ball vs Murray, Morris, Or McFadden— there is simply nothing else for me to say.

Zeke is the best overall RB in the NFL. He is the most important offensive weapon we have. We would be dumb to let him walk and think that someone else can just step right in and contribute at his level. This has been my contention throughout this thread— and remains so as your “arguments” are not even addressing my original point.

 

[mattjames2010]

It is clear you don’t understand what the phrase “the straw that stirs the drink” means in this context.

I am saying Zeke is the focus of our offense. His production clearly validates that point. I just don’t understand how any rational person can even argue that point. Your logic is just a mess man...

You are saying bc we went 3-5 with him, and 3-3 without him— this proves he is somehow NOT the focus of our offense (the “straw”) ? Doesn’t make sense. Sorry— your argument is just weird considering my point that anyone that watches football can see:

Zeke eats before anyone else and is the largest chunk of our offense’s production.

Your point about DeMarco is not really valid by the way... 1. Zeke outgained him (as a rookie) running behind the OL (minus Leary who was a superior run blocking LG) and 2. Zeke’s first 3 year production blows Murray’s out of the water

Your contention that any RB can run behind our OL (basically) is a giant assumption. If you can’t tell that there is a qualitative difference between the way Zeke runs the ball vs Murray, Morris, Or McFadden— there is simply nothing else for me to say.

Zeke is the best overall RB in the NFL. He is the most important offensive weapon we have. We would be dumb to let him walk and think that someone else can just step right in and contribute at his level. This has been my contention throughout this thread— and remains so as your “arguments” are not even addressing my original point.

> I am saying Zeke is the focus of our offense. His production clearly validates that point. I just don’t understand how any rational person can even argue that point. Your logic is just a mess man...

That saying has a meaning, the context doesn't change it. Zeke would need to be the player that inspires or significantly changes the trend - as I have shown you, with or without Zeke, our W/L record is fairly similar.

> You are saying bc we went 3-5 with him, and 3-3 without him— this proves he is somehow NOT the focus of our offense (the “straw”) ? Doesn’t make sense. Sorry— your argument is just weird considering my point that anyone that watches football can see:

We are not RUN FIRST because of Zeke, we were run first before he got here. Again, just like with Murray, we ran the ball down defenses throats because our offensive line's run blocking was the strength of our team - not the RB, but the O-Line.

> Zeke eats before anyone else and is the largest chunk of our offense’s production.

Again, this wasn't exclusive to Zeke

> Your point about DeMarco is not really valid by the way... 1. Zeke outgained him (as a rookie) running behind the OL (minus Leary who was a superior run blocking LG) and 2. Zeke’s first 3 year production blows Murray’s out of the water

What are you arguing here? I don't care if Zeke is "better" than DeMarco Murray - the simple fact is, Murray who wasn't this "elite" talent, had 1,800 yards rushing, had multiple games in a row where he rushed over 100 yards, had double digit TDs - the difference between Murray and Zeke's performances in 2014 and 16 was not different enough to change the results - one team went 12-4, the other went 13-3 and both teams went out in the divisional round to the same team.

Again, the rest will not be entertained. And when you state you're going to "stop", then you stop. You clearly know you're on the wrong side here.

 

[Hawkeye19]

>

That saying has a meaning, the context doesn't change it. Zeke would need to be the player that inspires or significantly changes the trend - as I have shown you, with or without Zeke, our W/L record is fairly similar.

We are not RUN FIRST because of Zeke, we were run first before he got here. Again, just like with Murray, we ran the ball down defenses throats because our offensive line's run blocking was the strength of our team - not the RB, but the O-Line.

I just don’t agree. IMO— Zeke is a generational talent— you think we can “get by” with lesser talent at RB bc of our superior OL play.

I question the wisdom of cutting a potential HOF player at any position. Zeke is not there yet— but he definitely has that ceiling.

The fact we have a great OL is a reason to KEEP Zeke, not cut him! We should maximize what we do well IMO!! Zeke and the OL is clearly a partnership that is working and producing well— why “fix” what isn’t broken?!

Cap space?! Pffffff... we can figure it out! We are talking Gurley numbers— 13-15 mil per year for a perennial rushing champion?! Definitely doable