Zeke Elliott - Hero or Zero - What Will It Take?

[AsthmaField]

You must have just recently heard of the running back position and their average careerspan and injury rate.

I've watched about 70% of so of all the snaps that Zeke has played. I think he is a first round talent. I thought he was on par with the better runner/worse receiver in Melvin Gordon.

Elliott is worlds better than Gordon, IMO. I'm not saying I'm right but the guy is special I feel.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Well the right decision was moving up for Wentz and enjoying eternal football life. If I'm right on him then there is simply no way we don't regret this decision. It may be the biggest mistake of the Jerry era.

Elliott was the best you could do at 4. The only player worth the pick.

reading other peoples opinions on the internet from your mom's basement makes you a poser, not a draft guru

 

[Floatyworm]

Anything less than a 1000yards...and an injury free season will be a failure. Showing you can handle the load may be more important than anything.

 

[fortdick]

Well, if he gets over 1000 yards, we are misusing him. I read something along those lines. Better to have him fresh in 2023.

 

[fortdick]

About what? How missing out on an elite franchise QB is the most crippling mistake a team can make in personnel?

I'll trade you 2 Randy Mosses and a Deion Sanders for Aaron Rodgers.

Or a Tony Romo.

 

[DallasEast]

What will it take for you to consider Zeke the right pick his first season? Second season? His first contract?

To me, the general expectations placed upon Elliott are unfairly elevated. Granted, my own expectations for him may not be any exception as well. That said, I would give him the same latitude that should extend to any player--regardless if that player was a first-round selection or undrafted free agent. I would stretch Elliott's evaluation for the length of his rookie contract. His full potential may not materialize within one or two seasons in the league. However, if he can:

• excel at blitz recognition and pickup
• maintain a reasonably positive short and medium third down conversion on the ground or catches out of the backfield
• routinely power through tacklers for positive gains

--I will be extremely happy in his on-going progress. "Impressive stats" would only be gravy for me.

What does he have to do for you to believe he is a bust? And in what time frame.

Not busting big runs when the opportunities present themselves and fumbling as much or worse than DeMarco Murray. Those eventualities don't seem likely based on his pre-professional career abilities but no outcome isn't impossible until proven otherwise in the NFL. Again, Elliott gets the length of his rookie contract from me before I would label him as such.

Simply, what does he have to do to convince you he was not only the right guy to chose at four, but the only guy?

I couldn't care less about other choices. Some people lament constantly upon players who weren't drafted by their team. Well, you can't get everybody and there's no personal practicality in whining about it except towards massaging one's own personal ego. The important thing is whether or not each player drafted or picked up as UDFA's can be offensive, defensive and special teams difference makers. For me, Elliott is not an exception in that aspect. He is the right guy if he comes in, produces and helps this franchise win.

Or what convinces you this was a tragic error in the realm of Bobby Carpenter or Morris Claiborne? Or worse?

Bobby Carpenter? Morris Claiborne? Or worse? Hmmm. It depends. I would define the Elliott pick as a tragic error if Elliott somehow, inexplicably, morphs into a Curtis Enis. Worse? If the ghost of Lawrence Phillips takes over Elliott's soul, I guess that would be worse in my book. Who knows? He has already claimed Joseph Randle's soul. That poor kid needs an exorcist or long-term devoted mental health care--whatever's better available to him.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Elliott is worlds better than Gordon, IMO. I'm not saying I'm right but the guy is special I feel.

He was less productive with a better team around him. They are similar backs. Zeke is a better blocker and more accomplished receiver which is a better fit for the NFL but hes not as good as Gordon as a runner.

 

[Risen Star]

Dallas didn't miss out on Wentz. He wasn't available at their pick.

Both the 1st and 2nd picks in the draft were available to any team motivated enough to make a deal.

That lame excuse doesn't fly. Check the handbook for another.

 

[AsthmaField]

Both the 1st and 2nd picks in the draft were available to any team motivated enough to make a deal.

That lame excuse doesn't fly. Check the handbook for another.

Then we should have moved up for Luck if it was price be damned.

 

[AsthmaField]

He was less productive with a better team around him. They are similar backs. Zeke is a better blocker and more accomplished receiver which is a better fit for the NFL but hes not as good as Gordon as a runner.

As runners, I guess you and I see them differently.

I suppose we will see in time.

 

[Risen Star]

Then we should have moved up for Luck if it was price be damned.

The pick wasn't available for Luck. It was for Wentz. And we were in much better position too.

What else you got?

 

[AsthmaField]

The pick wasn't available for Luck. It was for Wentz. And we were in much better position too.

What else you got?

Every pick can be had for a price. The question becomes: Is the price higher than you want to pay to move up?

I suppose you're saying that whatever it would have taken to move up for Luck would have been more than you, if you were running a team, would have been willing to pay. That is understandable and probably a wise choice, even for a prospect that is as "can't miss" as Andrew Luck.

The choice to move up for Wentz was, no doubt, available to the Cowboys (along with SF and any other team) and they made the decision to not pay what Cleveland was asking to swap the picks. They didn't feel like it was worth the price. Dallas would rather have Elliott and the other draft picks than Wentz. The choice was there for them... they knew Wentz well from the Sr. Bowl and the pre draft process... and they didn't want to make the move.

It wasn't worth the price to them. Just like you feel like the price for Luck would have been too high. Just like the price Washington paid for Griffin was too high (although they thought it wasn't).

It was a question of worth and Dallas didn't think Wentz was worth it, so they stayed at their pick. It was a decision that I'm glad they made... and one that you aren't.

But all I was saying in my initial post that you responded to, is that if a player is drafted before your team makes their choice... people don't usually say the team missed out on that player. Otherwise, people would just say their teams missed out on all the players taken before them.

I very badly wanted Dallas to draft Aaron Donald in 2014, but he was taken a few spots before them by the Rams. Even though I was advocating a small trade up to ensure they got him (which the team didn't do) I still don't say the team missed out on Donald, because he wasn't there for them to draft.

It would be like saying Dallas missed out on Khalil Mack, Ryan Shazier and Anthony Barr that year too.

But if you want to call those types of things as Dallas missing out on those players, and lame excuses for not taking them, then by all means.... go right ahead. With as many likes as you have, I personally think you should be able to call anything by any name you like.

You've earned it.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Every pick can be had for a price. The question becomes: Is the price higher than you want to pay to move up?

I suppose you're saying that whatever it would have taken to move up for Luck would have been more than you, if you were running a team, would have been willing to pay. That is understandable and probably a wise choice, even for a prospect that is as "can't miss" as Andrew Luck.

The choice to move up for Wentz was, no doubt, available to the Cowboys (along with SF and any other team) and they made the decision to not pay what Cleveland was asking to swap the picks. They didn't feel like it was worth the price. Dallas would rather have Elliott and the other draft picks than Wentz. The choice was there for them... they knew Wentz well from the Sr. Bowl and the pre draft process... and they didn't want to make the move.

It wasn't worth the price to them. Just like you feel like the price for Luck would have been too high. Just like the price Washington paid for Griffin was too high (although they thought it wasn't).

It was a question of worth and Dallas didn't think Wentz was worth it, so they stayed at their pick. It was a decision that I'm glad they made... and one that you aren't.

But all I was saying in my initial post that you responded to, is that if a player is drafted before your team makes their choice... people don't usually say the team missed out on that player. Otherwise, people would just say their teams missed out on all the players taken before them.

I very badly wanted Dallas to draft Aaron Donald in 2014, but he was taken a few spots before them by the Rams. Even though I was advocating a small trade up to ensure they got him (which the team didn't do) I still don't say the team missed out on Donald, because he wasn't there for them to draft.

It would be like saying Dallas missed out on Khalil Mack, Ryan Shazier and Anthony Barr that year too.

But if you want to call those types of things as Dallas missing out on those players, and lame excuses for not taking them, then by all means.... go right ahead. With as many likes as you have, I personally think you should be able to call anything by any name you like.

You've earned it.

I read somewhere that Dallas tried to trade up but like you said the price was too high. Eagles were willing to give up what Cleveland wanted. I'm glad that didn't trade up as well.


Reports are Wentz won't even be active on game days. I think Dallas did plenty of info on the QBs and had a price they would pay. Didn't work for Wentz, Lynch or Cook and I'm glad

 

[AsthmaField]

I read somewhere that Dallas tried to trade up but like you said the price was too high. Eagles were willing to give up what Cleveland wanted. I'm glad that didn't trade up as well.


Reports are Wentz won't even be active on game days. I think Dallas did plenty of info on the QBs and had a price they would pay. Didn't work for Wentz, Lynch or Cook and I'm glad

Only time will tell if we should have or not. Personally, I'm glad they didn't give up what Seattle wanted for Lynch and I'm very, very glad they didn't get Cook. Didn't like that guy at all.

Really, once Goff and Wentz were gone, there wasn't another QB that I really liked besides a later prospect to try to develop.

I didn't want to give up a lot to Cleveland for Wentz, so I'm glad it didn't happen. However, if Wentz does turn out to be a franchise QB, then Risen is going to be right and Dallas did miss an opportunity to get him (at a premium cost).

At this point though, nobody knows if he's going to be that kind of player or not.

 

[DFWJC]

Every pick can be had for a price. The question becomes: Is the price higher than you want to pay to move up?

I suppose you're saying that whatever it would have taken to move up for Luck would have been more than you, if you were running a team, would have been willing to pay. That is understandable and probably a wise choice, even for a prospect that is as "can't miss" as Andrew Luck.

The choice to move up for Wentz was, no doubt, available to the Cowboys (along with SF and any other team) and they made the decision to not pay what Cleveland was asking to swap the picks. They didn't feel like it was worth the price. Dallas would rather have Elliott and the other draft picks than Wentz. The choice was there for them... they knew Wentz well from the Sr. Bowl and the pre draft process... and they didn't want to make the move.

It wasn't worth the price to them. Just like you feel like the price for Luck would have been too high. Just like the price Washington paid for Griffin was too high (although they thought it wasn't).

It was a question of worth and Dallas didn't think Wentz was worth it, so they stayed at their pick. It was a decision that I'm glad they made... and one that you aren't.

But all I was saying in my initial post that you responded to, is that if a player is drafted before your team makes their choice... people don't usually say the team missed out on that player. Otherwise, people would just say their teams missed out on all the players taken before them.

I very badly wanted Dallas to draft Aaron Donald in 2014, but he was taken a few spots before them by the Rams. Even though I was advocating a small trade up to ensure they got him (which the team didn't do) I still don't say the team missed out on Donald, because he wasn't there for them to draft.

It would be like saying Dallas missed out on Khalil Mack, Ryan Shazier and Anthony Barr that year too.

But if you want to call those types of things as Dallas missing out on those players, and lame excuses for not taking them, then by all means.... go right ahead. With as many likes as you have, I personally think you should be able to call anything by any name you like.

You've earned it.

Luck was considered a decade or more level #1 pick.

By almost all accounts, Wentz was considered a player that normally would be taken between the 10th and 15th pick. Light years difference.

If Dallas had thought of him as a sure thing type franchise QB--the type you would throw away the farm for--they would have gone for it...I think.

They had a better, more close up look at him than almost everyone else, and they clearly did not feel that way.

Not saying they were right or wrong, but just pointing out the obvious.

 

[AsthmaField]

Luck was considered a decade or more level #1 pick.

By almost all accounts, Wentz was considered a player that normally would be taken between the 10th and 15th pick. Light years difference.

If Dallas had thought of him as a sure thing type franchise QB--the type you would throw away the farm for--they would have gone for it...I think.

They had a better, more close up look at him than almost everyone else, and they clearly did not feel that way.

Not saying they were right or wrong, but just pointing out the obvious.

And Bingo was his name-o

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Only time will tell if we should have or not. Personally, I'm glad they didn't give up what Seattle wanted for Lynch and I'm very, very glad they didn't get Cook. Didn't like that guy at all.

Really, once Goff and Wentz were gone, there wasn't another QB that I really liked besides a later prospect to try to develop.

I didn't want to give up a lot to Cleveland for Wentz, so I'm glad it didn't happen. However, if Wentz does turn out to be a franchise QB, then Risen is going to be right and Dallas did miss an opportunity to get him (at a premium cost).

At this point though, nobody knows if he's going to be that kind of player or not.

I thought Lynch would be great and had the highest ceiling. I agree I wouldn't have gave that much up to get him but had he made it to our pick I would have taken him.

Time will tell but this isn't the only class for QBs. They enter the draft every year and we didn't lose our only chance to draft the future

 

[Bullflop]

Jeez, the suggestion that Zeke Elliott might end up a "Zero" in the long run seems a stretch, right from the outset. Nothing about him suggests it to be a viable consideration. His body of work up until this point indicates his success is likely to be a foregone conclusion more than any other idea about him. Virtually nothing about his background is indicative of failure. If the offense flourishes as it did back when DeMarco Murray enjoyed his success in 2014, any notions of Elliott being a bust will summarily be dismissed, once and for all. Fears of his failure are indicative of paranoia.

 

[Section446]

I just want to see him used properly, I feel like our team under Garrett rarely utilizes rookies (minus OL). If it was up to him, Garrett would start Morris, and sparingly use Elliott, simply because the guy has something against letting rookies have a big impact.

Edit: If used properly, there's no reason why he can't lead all RB's in total yards.

 

[DallasEast]

The choice to move up for Wentz was, no doubt, available to the Cowboys (along with SF and any other team) and they made the decision to not pay what Cleveland was asking to swap the picks. They didn't feel like it was worth the price. Dallas would rather have Elliott and the other draft picks than Wentz.

That is how it always is in practically every potential trade scenario. Here were the details in the Eagles-to-No. 2 overall and Rams-to-No.1 overall trades:

Philadelphia: 2016 No. 2 overall (Wentz) and 2017 conditional 5th round (a compensatory 4th rounder) picks
Cleveland: 2016 No. 8 overall, 3rd and 4th round picks, 2017 1st round and 2018 2nd round picks.

St. Louis: 2016 No. 1 overall (Goff), 4th and 6th round picks.
Tennessee: 2016 1st round, 2nd round (two total), 3rd round, 2017 1st round and 3rd round picks.

Granted, a Dallas-to-No. 2 (or No. 1) overall trade would not have involved the same conditional terms but the other trades can be referenced for similar hypothetical comparison. So, the questions becomes what would have Cleveland (or Tennessee for that matter) demanded from Dallas for the opportunity to move up AND how those draft (and/or player trade) sacrifices would have impacted the roster in the near and foreseeable future?

We aren't privy to discussions amongst the front office or with Cleveland and Tennessee about moving up in the draft. Howver, any discussed scenarios were not deemed automatically acceptable simply because Wentz (or Goff) were judged as can't miss franchise quarterback candidates BY Dallas or the teams that previously owned the picks. The process is never that simple in complexity. Risks must be weighed against potential reward.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...s-acquire-no-2-overall-draft-pick-from-browns
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ams-trade-up-to-acquire-no-1-pick-from-titans