Zeke v Ramsey

TwoDeep3

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Ludicrous.

They are two completely different positions. RB's are RB's because they have to produce numbers. There's far more to being a DB than making interceptions. Maybe we should draft kicker next time in the first round because kickers put up so many points.

I would be far more concerned about the system Zeke played in college where the QB can keep the ball and run with it himself. That means the backside defender(s) have to play contain. We don't have that in Romo.

Could have had that with Lynch though.

Oh well.




YR

Production is the name of the game. Three picks in three years and one year he had zero. Even if you don't compare him to Elliott in regard to production, the fact remains he doesn't take the ball awya much.

Now when i am told he is the best athlete, that is intriguing. But if he cannot produce anything more than what I've seen from Mo Claiborne when he was in college, then I have to wonder.

Because all the expects aren't really experts I am told because the draft is a crap shoot.
 

Yakuza Rich

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Production is the name of the game. Three picks in three years and one year he had zero. Even if you don't compare him to Elliott in regard to production, the fact remains he doesn't take the ball awya much.

Now when i am told he is the best athlete, that is intriguing. But if he cannot produce anything more than what I've seen from Mo Claiborne when he was in college, then I have to wonder.

Because all the expects aren't really experts I am told because the draft is a crap shoot.

They are two completely different positions.

If you're looking for production, by that logic we should take a kicker in the first round because of all of the points they produce.






YR
 

QT

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Ramsey is an over-confident workout warrior until he does something in the NFL. Time will tell. Now if Ramsey had like 8+ or so INTs in college, then you can compare him to the great corners coming out of college that were drafted in the top 10. ex Patrick Peterson 7 INTs, Charles Woodson 16, Darrelle Revis 8, Joe Haden 8, Deion Sanders 14.

So the experts that mention Jalen Ramsey in the same sentence as Deion are delusional. Deion had 14 career INTs. Top that off with 4.2 speed. Plus he was a game changing punt returner. Deion also had great hands for corner; Ramsey, not so much...

So would you use a #4 pick for Deion... Heck yes.. (Again 14 INTs and 4.2 speed) He has all the attributes coming out of college. Again, Ramsey (3 INTs and 4.4 speed), not so much...

Another thing that people have not pointed out is that some of these high picked corners returned punts in college. Thus this brings extra value to their college stock. Deion had 3 punt return TDs in college. Patrick Peterson had 2 TDs on punt returns. Ramsey had like 1 punt return for 6 yards. If Ramsey was dynamic and had great hands, I'm sure FSU would have put him in more on punts.
 
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dogunwo

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I have a guess that over his first contract, Zeke will out perform Ramsey and make JJ look smart. But I predict Dallas will wear Zeke out and use him up to the point that at 27 yrs old, he might be done and allowed to walk to look for Demarco money. Ramsey will play 10 yrs or more, Zeke I do not know.
I thought this, but I think they may have learned something with Murray here. They ran him into the ground because they didn't have another back they can trust. Now they have several including Jackson that they are going to try to develop. Elliott should be around 22 carries a game.
 

Knotamus

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Ward, Kaya, Brissett and Watson disagree

I figured someone would pick the post apart to somehow fit thier opinion. Fine, if you want to hang on to those four guys, great. Now go ahead and list the umpteen other "no names". The real point is.. Ramsey should have been able to produce more game-changing plays against these guys. But yet, he had a grand total of ZERO. What on earth will he be able to muster against NFL QBs? (Any answer to that question would be an obvious guess)
 

ABQCOWBOY

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They are two completely different positions.

If you're looking for production, by that logic we should take a kicker in the first round because of all of the points they produce.






YR

I agree. I mean, obviously you want the turnover but that is not all that should be measured. If a Safety or a CB prevents a TD or a big gain, is that not production? How many times have we seen a big play down field kill us? I think that only counting INTs in this equation is at best, an incomplete picture.
 

Yakuza Rich

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I agree. I mean, obviously you want the turnover but that is not all that should be measured. If a Safety or a CB prevents a TD or a big gain, is that not production? How many times have we seen a big play down field kill us? I think that only counting INTs in this equation is at best, an incomplete picture.

Or if a corner completely shuts down your star receiver/Tight End which completely changes the complexion of the game...but doesn't get any picks...I find that to be extremely valuable.





YR
 

jnday

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Ramsey, in my opinion, was the #1 defensive prospect on the board. I liked Bosa, but didn't love him, and wasn't the biggest fan of Buckner. And maybe I'm still burned from Claiborne, but I really didn't want to spend such a high pick on a defensive back. Elliott just makes too much sense.

I can understand your feelings about drafting CBs that high. Dallas has tried to build defenses by using tons of resources on CBs and it has resulted in failure time after time. If they repeated the same mistake again, it would have resulted in more failure.
 

Toruk_Makto

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I must admit, I thought Dallas would pick Ramsey at #4 and was a tad bit surprised when Elliott's name was ultimately announced. This was partly due to the fact that I never would have imagined the FO to pick him with such a high pick. Add in the overwhelming need to add playmakers on defense, I was convinced it would be Ramsey. Although, DE was our defenses greatest need IMO.
After several days to digest the idea that Dallas actually landed the best Runningback in the Draft, and quite possibly the best player in the draft, I'm completely convinced.. They got it right.There's a precursor to this though, I'll explain..
Elliott and Ramsey play two very different positions that are both equally as important at different times of the game. However, only one of them can dictate himself on the opposing team, Elliott. I liken it to the Homerun hitting Clean-up hitter of baseball. If the batter is feared, the opposing pitcher will just walk them and/or pitch around the batter, thus the hitter never has a chance to make a real impact on the game. Likewise, IF Ramsey is a stud CB/S, the QB can neutralize his impact and avoid throwing his direction. In Contrast, Dallas has the best OL in football which increases the odds of Elliott imposing his will on opponents 20-30 touches a game. I find that more appealing and worthy of the #4 pick even more. And we haven't talked ab how this effects time of possession, defensive plays, and Romo's health.
So Lets look at Ramsey. Everybody already knows that he's a freak of nature that seemingly can make every type of play asked of him as a DB. The biggest question (or concern) was whether he was a CB or Safety. Well, I guess that's still to be determined, but his talent cant be denied. What can be questioned though, is his lack of game-changing plays. His lack of INT's is well documented against ho-hum QB competition. I've also heard "that's because they didn't throw to his side of the field". Oh yeah, he had 52 tackles w/no INTs last year. Lets look at the other 1st round CBs:Eli Apple 33-1int; Vernon Hargreaves 33-4; William Jackson 43-5; Artie Burns 36-6. Seems to me, Ramsey played against lesser Qb competition and ended up making more tackles and less impactful plays.
On the other hand, seven of Zeke's 13 games last year was against the NCAA top 40 defensive teams in America, yet his stat line looked like this: 1821 yds- 6.3 avg- 23 TDs. And Ill add he finished with 3 straight 220+ yard games to close out their National Championship run against Wisconsin, Alabama, and Oregon two years ago.
So after looking at the fact of the matter, Elliott is far and away the best pick for the Cowboys right now and when Romo's tenure ends. Zeke is a Champion that knows how to carry a team when the team needs him.

When this happens it is a really good thing for a defense.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Or if a corner completely shuts down your star receiver/Tight End which completely changes the complexion of the game...but doesn't get any picks...I find that to be extremely valuable.





YR

I agree Rich. It allows you to do so much from a defensive scheme philosophy.
 

punchnjudy

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You guys may be right about Ramsey's abilities, but the other side to this is that even if Zeke never existed this FO was willing to sacrifice Ramsey for a third round pick.

Jerry admitted it was out of character for them to take a RB this high; it wouldn't have been out of character for them to invest a lot in a DB (Claiborne, TW, RW, Carr, Deion).

They still could have gotten Lynch without trading down, just by dealing their own 2nd and 3rd.

Based on how they've coveted DB's in the past, it seems like they either weren't that high on Ramsey or they were high on something else.

I don't know how else to explain why the same franchise that traded up to get Claiborne was willing to say "pass" on Ramsey for either a RB or a 3rd round pick.
 
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jnday

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You guys may be right about Ramsey's abilities, but the other side to this is that even if Zeke never existed this FO was willing to sacrifice Ramsey for a third round pick.

Jerry admitted it was out of character for them to take a RB this high; it wouldn't have been out of character for them to invest a lot in a DB (Claiborne, TW, RW, Carr, Deion).

They still could have gotten Lynch without trading down, just by dealing their own 2nd and 3rd.

Based on how they've coveted DB's in the past, it seems like they either weren't that high on Ramsey or they were high on something else.

I don't know how else to explain why the same franchise that traded up to get Claiborne was willing to say "pass" on Ramsey for either a RB or a 3rd round pick.

I mentioned in another post about the report they got the week before the draft saying that Ramsey was going to have trouble at CB. They have also failed miserably when trying to build the defense through the signing of DBs. Maybe they learned their lesson.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I mentioned in another post about the report they got the week before the draft saying that Ramsey was going to have trouble at CB. They have also failed miserably when trying to build the defense through the signing of DBs. Maybe they learned their lesson.

If the lesson learned is not to draft a DB in the first round, then I'd say that the lesson that needs to learned has not yet been learned.
 

jnday

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If the lesson learned is not to draft a DB in the first round, then I'd say that the lesson that needs to learned has not yet been learned.

I hope they learned the lesson that the Dline needs to be fixed before any driest round DB. The lesson should be trenches first. Dabs are only as good as the pass rush unless they have the talent of D,Sanders and I have never seen any CB that approaches his talent. They should build from the inside out. They learned that lesson on offense , but they continue to overlook the pass rush on defense. To be fair, the better pass rushing prospects was not available in the draft unless they wanted to reach for them. Do you understand where I am coming from now?
 
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