ZONERS: Identify yourself who liked the kicker we drafted!

[Alexander]

You mean the same way as is done for all other players? The way they can have a breakout year and rise up scouting reports.

Yeah I did that. Silly me.

And I am equally wary of one year wonders across the board. But particularly kickers. Do you happen to be this optimistic in regards to all kickers or just former Arizona Wildcat ones?

 

[Vintage]

And I am equally wary of one year wonders across the board. But particularly kickers. Do you happen to be this optimistic in regards to all kickers or just former Arizona Wildcat ones?

There are very few "4 year" performers.

Usually, players continual to show growth and development.

In this case, it looks like Folk did.

In Spencer's case, it looks like he did.

Doesn't mean it guarantees success. But its usually what happens. So are you skeptical of just about everyone who comes into the draft?

 

[Hostile]

And I am equally wary of one year wonders across the board. But particularly kickers. Do you happen to be this optimistic in regards to all kickers or just former Arizona Wildcat ones?

No, I am not optimistic towards all kickers, or any other position for that matter, and Arizona has nothing whatsoever to do with it. I said that any team drafting Chris Henry of Arizona before the 4th round was foolish.

I just happen to think your evaluation based on his entire college kicking experience is wrong. I watched this kid and that does bias my opinion a bit. I don't deny that. All anyone wanted to talk about last year was Mason Crosby because he was from Texas. This kid out kicked him at a lower elevation and he already uses a 2 step plant instead of 3 so he is ahead of the curve that way.

But it is pretty clear that the evidence does support what I claimed. He was the best kicking prospect in the draft and we took him with a 6th round pick.

I hate kickers, but I don't see the harm in rolling the dice on a player like this with a late round pick. If he kicks here for 10 years people will be talking about how he was a good pick. Hindsight is amazing. All I am saying is for the cost it was worth rolling the dice.

The idea that he is inacurate because of his entire career versus the fact that he improved every year and did this for a bad team is just foreign to me and that is what I am pointing out. If you choose to close your eyes to how bad the Wildcats really were that is your choice.

 

[YosemiteSam]

And I am equally wary of one year wonders across the board. But particularly kickers. Do you happen to be this optimistic in regards to all kickers or just former Arizona Wildcat ones?

Well, many times you pick up a kicker on his physical attributes. If the guy can kick a mile, then he is worth a shot. If he can only kick 40 yards, you don't even waste your time. If the guy has leg and kicks for accuracy in his senior season, then you might just have to reach for him. The Cowboys on the other hand, reached for Folk and he really didn't have much accuracy, but he has a hell of a leg and can punt to boot. (pun intended)

 

[iceberg]

No, it is not "wrong".

What I posted is entirely accurate.

If you choose to ignore it or massage it to fit your perception, that is your perogative.

You are just using one solid year to justify your impressions and are trying to draw conclusions off that season.

It is no different from noting that another player has improved in a year and then trying to just assume that is what to expect for their future career.

With kickers, you never know what to expect and I lean towards looking at their history. They are completely unpredictable, yet his career tendencies can't be completely ignored. If I were to bet, I'll go with the career trend.

We will see what he does. I'd rather be proven wrong, but it all depends on his opportunities in preseason. And unless he's near perfect or Gramatica completely unravels, I go with the veteran to kick field goals.

you mean like using one bad one to skew things your way?

 

[iceberg]

No, I am not optimistic towards all kickers, or any other position for that matter, and Arizona has nothing whatsoever to do with it. I said that any team drafting Chris Henry of Arizona before the 4th round was foolish.

I just happen to think your evaluation based on his entire college kicking experience is wrong. I watched this kid and that does bias my opinion a bit. I don't deny that. All anyoen wanted to talk about last year was Mason Crosby because he was from Texas. This kid out kicked him at a lower elevation and he already uses a 2 step plant instead of 3 so he is ahead of the curve that way.

But it is pretty clear that the evidence does support what I claimed. He was the best kicking prospect in the draft and we took him with a 6th round pick.

I hate kickers, but I don't see the harm in rolling the dice on a player like this with a late round pick. If he kicks here for 10 years people will be talking about how he was a good pick. Hindsight is amazing. All I am saying is for the cost it was worth rolling the dice.

The idea that he is inacurate because of his entire career versus the fact that he improved every year and did this for a bad team is just foreign to me and that is what I am pointing out. If you choose to close your eyes to how bad the Wildcats really were that is your choice.

the question is - did he show improvement over the course of his career? to do it alex's way would mean sure - you look at the "whole" picture for 1 number, but it does tend to ignore a lot of facts that help make a "better, more informed" decision.

 

[Hostile]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/stati...ort=fg%&pos=off&league=nfl&season=2&year=2006

Thank you Mike Vanderjagt. We had the worst FG % in the NFL last year. I didn't know that until right now. 71.4%

We attempted the 2nd most PATs which means we scored the 2nd most TDs.

Few people would turn away the Cardinals kicker if he were a Free Agent. Yet he was just above 75% in 2006. The comparison to Folk is good because they are kicking at virtually the same elevation and heat conditions, although Folk kicks outside. Also both were accurate from 40 and lower and had misses from 41+ to account for their "accuracy" issues.

The longer the FG attempt the less likely it is to be made. I don't see what is so hard to grasp about that.

 

[carphalen5150]

I liked Medlock better than Folk, but Folk better than Crosby.

 

[Hostile]

An assist from AdamJT13 per my request.

In the Stanford game he was 2 for 2 on FG attempts. 45 and 24 yards.

He kicked off 5 times for a 65 yard average and 4 touchbacks.

Link

In the Washington game he was 2 for 2. 48 and 37 yards. The 37 yarder was to end the 2nd quarter.

He kicked off 6 times for a 57.8 average and 3 touchbacks.

Link

Somehow I am still not accounting for 2 missed FGs. I have no idea why or how long they were. My apologies.

 

[Hostile]

I liked Medlock better than Folk, but Folk better than Crosby.

I liked Medlock better than Crosby, but not as much as Folk. Medlock was using a 3 step plant, played for a much better team and did not have to also punt.

 

[2233boys]

It is worse than the Stanback pick...

 

[Alexander]

I think too many fans bought into Parcells BS about the roster. "We're going to need #53 so badly that it's a bad idea to keep a guy just to kick off"????

Get real....there are guys on the roster who don't dress for the game all year long. The guy may beat out Grammatica straight up, but even if he only kicks off, if he's that much better at kickoffs, meaning it changes field position, then hell yes, he's worth more than whomever would have been #53.

We're not going to need #53 to help us win games this year.

Keep on believing that.

If your theory was true, there would be more teams going with kickoff specialists.

Look at it from a talent standpoint.

Would you cut a promising young receiver (as Hurd and Austin were) just to keep a kickoff specialist?

How about an offensive lineman like one of our draftees or even McQuistan? A cornerback like Courtney Brown or Alan Ball?

Kickers, particularly only those that can only kickoff are not in high demand.

Kickers can easily clear waivers to hit your practice squad. Quality skill position players need to be protected.

His ticket to the roster should be as a placekicker. If he cannot beat out Gramatica cleanly in that regard, there is no reason just to make a spot for him because we spent a sixth round choice on him.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

ZONERS:

I cut this out of Micky Spags answer about our punter.....he spoke of our Kicker and his chances to make the team.

WHO or WHY did you Zoners get me excited about the rookie kicker we drafted who could consistantly BOOM them out of the dang ENDZONE!

Talk to me!

DID WE WASTE A PICK?

Let's start talking up Folk and get Danny Snyder interested in him.
I will start: I think he is a diamond in the rough. Gee, I hope we keep him if only to keep him away from that shrewd judge of talent, Mr. Danny Snyder.

 

[iceberg]

Keep on believing that.

If your theory was true, there would be more teams going with kickoff specialists.

Look at it from a talent standpoint.

Would you cut a promising young receiver (as Hurd and Austin were) just to keep a kickoff specialist?

How about an offensive lineman like one of our draftees or even McQuistan? A cornerback like Courtney Brown or Alan Ball?

Kickers, particularly only those that can only kickoff are not in high demand.

Kickers can easily clear waivers to hit your practice squad. Quality skill position players need to be protected.

His ticket to the roster should be as a placekicker. If he cannot beat out Gramatica cleanly in that regard, there is no reason just to make a spot for him because we spent a sixth round choice on him.

then who was #53 last year and how did he ensure our overall success?

kickers are not a quality skill position? i'll bet you think otherwise when they wiff, alex. you make it sound like any wind up monkey will be fine and i'll just say i disagree and let it go while you find our #53 and ensure he's "the one" we can't do w/o.

 

[AbeBeta]

It is worse than the Stanback pick...

The pundits think that was a bad pick because they all had him as a QB. The "could have had him later" folks all evaluated him only as a QB. Experienced receiver? No. Does he know what to do when he gets the ball in his hands? Absolutely.

To me, early 4th is the perfect time to take a high ceiling guy like that.

Regarding Folk, people need to either accept the pick or stop complaining that we didn't take Gostkowski or Brown in previous years. God forbid there is actually some competition at the kicker position this year. It isn't like Gramatica was awesome last year -- if had someone not forgotten to block against the Skins, they'd have likely ended up with the SAME FG%.

 

[el_chevo]

I love the kick, go U of A!, go Cowboys!

 

[peplaw06]

I think the accuracy thing is a little over-rated when assessing a K's prospects in the NFL. The hash marks on an NCAA field are farther apart, which can account for some very tough angles and harder kicks. I don't know if the extra 5 yards or so in the width of the uprights makes up for that. I guess you just have to see a guy kick on an NFL field to rate him.

I think 60% over 40 is pretty good for a college kicker. I say this without seeing the stats on NCAA leaders on accuracy over 40 yards last season, but I'd guess he'd be pretty highly ranked there.

 

[Alexander]

then who was #53 last year and how did he ensure our overall success?

It isn't even a case of last year. The #53 is for all intents and purposes a protected developmental player in many cases. Others it is veteran insurance.

It gives you flexibility and injury insurance without the worries of having to scramble to find talent off the street if disaster does strike.

kickers are not a quality skill position? i'll bet you think otherwise when they wiff, alex. you make it sound like any wind up monkey will be fine and i'll just say i disagree and let it go while you find our #53 and ensure he's "the one" we can't do w/o.

Who is talking about wind-up monkeys?

Only you.

 

[lurkercowboy]

I don't know much about Folk, but I like the idea of drafting a kicker in the late rounds. Dallas does not have an established kicker and having a competition in training camp sounds good to me.

 

[ZeroClub]

On draft day, when I heard the pick, I didn't feel pro or con.

I gave the Cowboys a bye on the pick.

We'll see how it works. If the Cowboys want to get a little cute in the 6th or 7th round, I don't have a big problem with it.