FEATURED A standing ovation for a future HOFer

[KingCorcoran]

Your Devil's Advocate opinion reminds me of the two central Board of Selectors arguments for every Pro Football Hall of Fame candidate. It is either a debate of:

1. Hall of Fame worthiness versus 'Hall of the Very Good'
2. Points and counterpoints even more weak than #1

Okay. "There might be a host of worthy candidates when Martin is on the ballot." Premise: Candidate does not get in on the first-ballot because other players are 'more worthy'. Let's do a player versus player comparison!

Cleveland Browns' Joe Thomas was Zack Martin's teammate on the 2010's NFL All-Decade Team (teams are selected by the Board of Selectors). Candidate arguments are always littered with team accomplishments. During the 2010's with Thomas, the Browns were in the AFC North cellar every season except 2010.

Martin? With the Cowboys, the team finished first in the NFC East, last in the division only once, and made the divisional round of the playoffs three times. No Super Bowls, no Super Bowl runner ups, no conference championship appearances BUT 'team crap' arguably better than what the Browns did with Thomas.

Get this out of the way first. Thomas made ten Pro Bowls versus Martin's nine Pro Bowls. I do not think the Selectors argue Pro Bowls as vehemently as they did years ago but there it is.

The Associated Press decides All-Pro selections. Thomas was picked six times as a first-teamer. 'First-team' is the measure of all-pro acknowledgment. Thomas received two second-team all-pro selections also.

Martin? He was selected as an all-pro seven times. As an aside, he received two second-team
all-pro picks as well.

Joe Thomas was rightfully inducted in the Hall on the first ballot (link). Thomas entered the Hall while the following players were denied entry. In parenthesis are the number of times a player had been a yearly finalist up until-and-at the time Thomas was enshrined

• Jared Allen (3)
• Willie Anderson (2)
• Dwight Freeney
• Devin Hester (2)
• Torry Holt (4)
• Andre Johnson (2)
• Albert Lewis
• Reggie Wayne (4)
• Patrick Willis (2)
• Darren Woodson

Seems like a respectable ' a host of worthy candidates' to me.

You know... let's put a pin in this sub-discussion, shall we? Table it until Martin's first year of eligibility. Everyone can then see Martin's competition at that time, who, I guess, will BLOW that sampling of candidates above out of the water when Thomas got in on his first try.

Incredible.

The issue is 100% in all three rounds. Are you suggesting getting less than 100% in all three rounds would somehow make him less of a “Hall of Famer”?

 

[Dalmations202]

excellent player for many years. Thanks for the entertainment.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

One of the all time greats. The Cowboys wasted his career too.

 

[cmoney23]

Jerry still wants Johnny Football!

/s

 

[Rayman70]

This front office never really understood what all in truly means. So while we drafted well , assembled one if the best lines in history a few years ago, they failed to put good enough talent in other areas. All of the lineman we had in 2016 are gone. All studs and we blew it. They were all on the cheap for a while and we blew an opportunity. Dak was a rookie on the cheap and we pissed it away. The Joneses stopped short of doing all they could to win. Same as now.

 

[jazzcat22]

joins the list of our greatest offensive linemen...ever.
☆ralph neely
☆rayfield wright
☆john niland
☆blaine nye
☆john fitzgerald
☆tom rafferty
☆pat donovan
☆herb scott
☆nate newton
☆mark tuinei
☆erik williams
☆larry allen
☆tyron smith
☆travis frederick
and now...
☆zack martin
OUR☆HISTORY

We had the Great Wall, Great Wall II.
But the players on your list, though you miss one. The greatest OL nickname.

The Four Irishmen and a Scott.
Fitzgerald, Rafferty, Donovan, and Jim Cooper, then the Scott was of course Herb Scott.

Fitzgerald was the one that named them.
They were the OL on the field for Tony Dorsett's 99 yard TD run.

 

[DallasEast]

The issue is 100% in all three rounds. Are you suggesting getting less than 100% in all three rounds would somehow make him less of a “Hall of Famer”?

Nope. Nothing I stated in my original post suggests your interpretation. Here is what I actually stated once more:

Forget 80% of the vote. Zack Martin receives 100% of Board of Selectors' votes through all three preliminary rounds and the final round. Even one dissenter will mean unquestionable Cowboys bias.

First, any Hall of Famer is a Hall of Famer. It is sometimes difficult for some candidates to get any official recognition from the Hall, much less actually getting enshrined. Once someone is in, they are in. They are a Hall of Famer. Nothing I said suggests otherwise.

That said, the Board of Selectors deliberate the worthiness of each nominee through individual rounds--whittling down the eligible candidates to a number at or below the maximum number of enshrinees per class. Most candidates do not receive a universal stamp of approval throughout the process.

Some candidates do. In my opinion, Martin's career and accolades merits flying through all deliberating rounds as well. So, I do not think Martin is less of a Hall of Famer if he does not receive 100% of the vote. However, the hypothetical and your inquiry does prompt me to ask you the very same question I would ask any dissenting Selector at any stage of the process:

What were your exact disagreement(s) for not casting a yea vote for Zack Martin?​

 

[KingCorcoran]

Nope. Nothing I stated in my original post suggests your interpretation. Here is what I actually stated once more:



First, any Hall of Famer is a Hall of Famer. It is sometimes difficult for some candidates to get any official recognition from the Hall, much less actually getting enshrined. Once someone is in, they are in. They are a Hall of Famer. Nothing I said suggests otherwise.

That said, the Board of Selectors deliberate the worthiness of each nominee through individual rounds--whittling down the eligible candidates to a number at or below the maximum number of enshrinees per class. Most candidates do not receive a universal stamp of approval throughout the process.

Some candidates do. In my opinion, Martin's career and accolades merits flying through all deliberating rounds as well. So, I do not think Martin is less of a Hall of Famer if he does not receive 100% of the vote. However, the hypothetical and your inquiry does prompt me to ask you the very same question I would ask any dissenting Selector at any stage of the process:

What were your exact disagreement(s) for not casting a yea vote for Zack Martin?​

Some of those selecting may look at the candidates and assume a guy is a lock and take the liberty of using their ballot to give a “vote” to someone they’d like to see make it.

 

[DallasEast]

Some of those selecting may look at the candidates and assume a guy is a lock and take the liberty of using their ballot to give a “vote” to someone they’d like to see make it.

If true, your opinion affirms my belief that most selectors (the bulk of which are media heads) should not be the deciding factor for any candidate's chances of making the Hall. I get what you are saying but my question was not addressed.

Casting a vote for 'liking or not liking a candidate' is not a disagreement. It is not a approval or disapproval of a candidate's resume for entry. It would demonstrate personal preference, which is what any selector of any sport at any level should not be doing AND confirms a degree of applied bias.

 

[Rayman70]

Sports media has no business voting in the process for who gets in or out of the hall. None whatsoever. It's not a popularity contest, it's merit based, supposedly. Going by this, Darren Woodson should have been voted in. My hunch is many media never really seriously looked at his career . Human beings have biased opinions. Martin won't get in for a while because of the voting and the position he played. But he will make it in. It's a matter of time. I don't think Woody will ever get in. Just a feeling I guess.

 

[gtb1943]

Sports media has no business voting in the process for who gets in or out of the hall. None whatsoever. It's not a popularity contest, it's merit based, supposedly. Going by this, Darren Woodson should have been voted in. My hunch is many media never really seriously looked at his career . Human beings have biased opinions. Martin won't get in for a while because of the voting and the position he played. But he will make it in. It's a matter of time. I don't think Woody will ever get in. Just a feeling I guess.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/12/13/z...bowls-as-career-holding-penalties-daily-cover

 

[Rayman70]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/12/13/z...bowls-as-career-holding-penalties-daily-cover

Yes it's all true. Dude was Elite , special. Like I keep saying, he's getting in the hall. He's retiring for a reason. He can no longer play at the level he wants. It happens to everyone. He was an extraordinary guard in this league. I'm pretty sure he could have been a pro bowl RT too if he chose. Maybe even a center. He was that special. He'll need to wait a while to get chosen for the hall.

 

[TexasBacon]

I love the fact that you never heard any yapping from him
no podcast
no trash talk
he just brought his lunch pail to every game for every minute

Totally agree. A few posters on this board kept trying to push the narrative that he was selfish and tried to fleece the team with his deal, and I've never wanted to jump through a screen and strangle someone so badly in my life. Martin was a class act and world class talent and did his talking on the field.

 

[ThatJerryKid]

I was saddened but not surprised to see the great Zack Martin decide it was time to retire. Guys with this level of greatness deserve more than just a round of applause. This is the kind of player that does not come along often. Zack Martin will have a bust in Canton and his name in the Cowboys Ring of Honor.

Martin is one of the greatest players EVER to wear the star as a Dallas Cowboy. He will be remembered along with other great Cowboys Hall of Fame offensive lineman like Larry Allen, Rayfield Wright, and another eventual HOFer Tyron Smith.

Look at some of Martin’s unbelievable accomplishments as a player:

• 7 time FIRST TEAM ALL PRO
• 2 time SECOND TEAM ALL PRO
• NFL All Decade Team 2010-19
• Had 7 accepted holding penalties for his entire career (that alone is astounding)

One sad asterisk on a truly all time great player is the fact Martin will be one of only a handful of Hall of Famers to never play in a conference championship game or a Super Bowl. But what a truly awesome career.

When we see greatness like this retire, a salute and standing ovation is in order. Thank you Zack Martin!

Would have won just as many Super Bowls if we drafted Johnny Manziel.

 

[Montanalo]

And to think Jerry wanted Manziel ?

Are you trying to trigger me??

LOL

 

[BigDPlayer]

I was saddened but not surprised to see the great Zack Martin decide it was time to retire. Guys with this level of greatness deserve more than just a round of applause. This is the kind of player that does not come along often. Zack Martin will have a bust in Canton and his name in the Cowboys Ring of Honor.

Martin is one of the greatest players EVER to wear the star as a Dallas Cowboy. He will be remembered along with other great Cowboys Hall of Fame offensive lineman like Larry Allen, Rayfield Wright, and another eventual HOFer Tyron Smith.

Look at some of Martin’s unbelievable accomplishments as a player:

• 7 time FIRST TEAM ALL PRO
• 2 time SECOND TEAM ALL PRO
• NFL All Decade Team 2010-19
• Had 7 accepted holding penalties for his entire career (that alone is astounding)

One sad asterisk on a truly all time great player is the fact Martin will be one of only a handful of Hall of Famers to never play in a conference championship game or a Super Bowl. But what a truly awesome career.

When we see greatness like this retire, a salute and standing ovation is in order. Thank you Zack Martin!

A sad day for us fans, the turning of the chapter.

Here Here Zach Martin!!!!

 

[KJJ]

His decline was quick. It began right after he held out in camp for more money a couple of years ago. The injuries started piling up. It’s almost like he knew he didn’t have much longer.

 

[CowboyFanInLexKy]

I was saddened but not surprised to see the great Zack Martin decide it was time to retire. Guys with this level of greatness deserve more than just a round of applause. This is the kind of player that does not come along often. Zack Martin will have a bust in Canton and his name in the Cowboys Ring of Honor.

Martin is one of the greatest players EVER to wear the star as a Dallas Cowboy. He will be remembered along with other great Cowboys Hall of Fame offensive lineman like Larry Allen, Rayfield Wright, and another eventual HOFer Tyron Smith.

Look at some of Martin’s unbelievable accomplishments as a player:

• 7 time FIRST TEAM ALL PRO
• 2 time SECOND TEAM ALL PRO
• NFL All Decade Team 2010-19
• Had 7 accepted holding penalties for his entire career (that alone is astounding)

One sad asterisk on a truly all time great player is the fact Martin will be one of only a handful of Hall of Famers to never play in a conference championship game or a Super Bowl. But what a truly awesome career.

When we see greatness like this retire, a salute and standing ovation is in order. Thank you Zack Martin!

Great post and I totally agree with everything..... Unfortunately we have some fans on this board (based on other posts about Zach Martin retiring) that did all but say Martin and Frederick were a piece of crap and "Good Riddance" (paraphrasing of course). I was surprised by a couple of people who actually put a like on that response....

 

[acr731]

I was saddened but not surprised to see the great Zack Martin decide it was time to retire. Guys with this level of greatness deserve more than just a round of applause. This is the kind of player that does not come along often. Zack Martin will have a bust in Canton and his name in the Cowboys Ring of Honor.

Martin is one of the greatest players EVER to wear the star as a Dallas Cowboy. He will be remembered along with other great Cowboys Hall of Fame offensive lineman like Larry Allen, Rayfield Wright, and another eventual HOFer Tyron Smith.

Look at some of Martin’s unbelievable accomplishments as a player:

• 7 time FIRST TEAM ALL PRO
• 2 time SECOND TEAM ALL PRO
• NFL All Decade Team 2010-19
• Had 7 accepted holding penalties for his entire career (that alone is astounding)

One sad asterisk on a truly all time great player is the fact Martin will be one of only a handful of Hall of Famers to never play in a conference championship game or a Super Bowl. But what a truly awesome career.

When we see greatness like this retire, a salute and standing ovation is in order. Thank you Zack Martin!

Zack was good, but I have to be honest - I think he would have had a tough time competing with the likes of Larry Allen, Nate Newton, and Eric Williams. He would have been a 2nd teamer on that roster. This post isn't intended to take a dig at Zack, but it's pretty difficult putting anyone ahead of that early 90's O'line.

 

[gtb1943]

Zack was good, but I have to be honest - I think he would have had a tough time competing with the likes of Larry Allen, Nate Newton, and Eric Williams. He would have been a 2nd teamer on that roster. This post isn't intended to take a dig at Zack, but it's pretty difficult putting anyone ahead of that early 90's O'line.

Dude, he was twice as good as Nate. You are looking back then on Nate with rose colored glasses. Larry was the best OL I ever saw and Eric pre injury the best RT I ever saw; but Nate was not great.