Twitter: Trysten vs Neville

[Big_D]

The problem with Hill is he was a Marinelli pick. The guy sucked and his handling of the D line sucked. So when he picks a player it's hard to get overly excited. Then I don't really care if it's he said, she said garbage, there were red flags with Hill before the draft. Then to top it off it worked out exactly how most thought it would. With a new coach it's a fresh start for everyone. The guy is here and I'm hoping for the best!! DT went from a terrible situation to one with some depth and competition, so we'll see how he responds?

 

[xwalker]

Oh, I saw it and he sucked. If he was giving his best effort then I have even a lower opinion of him as a player.

Describe 1 play that involved Hill in 2019...

 

[xwalker]

Oh, I saw it and he sucked. If he was giving his best effort then I have even a lower opinion of him as a player.

I'll give you and example of actually watching game footage and describing a play:

• Bills
  • 2nd and 4
  • Hill aligned as the 1tech DT
  • Hill fights off initial double team, RB intended to run right at Hill but when there is no opening tries to stretch it out moving down the line.
  • Hill bulls his way down the line and makes the tackle for no gain.

 

[Johnny23]

No, not everybody in the room. Just you and a few under-informed overly opinionated posters...

See that's what I am talking about. Thanks for the insult though.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You are basically cherry picking what you want to hear, I guess. There were numerous issues during the season with Hill. Multiple beat writers talked about how the Cowboys were frustrated with the attitude issues with Hill. There were reports by the end of the year Marinelli kind of just threw up his hands at that point.

You also tried to soften what happened. Hill FELL ASLEEP during a talk from a Hall of Fame NBA player and it was so noticeable Thomas himself called out Hill and woke him up. Then after that embarrassment you would have thought he might wise up a bit, but no, he then showed up late for a meeting.

The kid had/has some attitude issues. That's plainly obvious at this point and it's not just a few examples here, he also had questions about his attitude in college. So to try to write this off as just a one or two time thing is simply not accurate. Hill had better wise up and fix his attitude or he's going to find himself bounced out of here soon enough. He certainly has the skill set but he has to get his head into this.

One sided leaks are questionable. if you want to get upset about TMZ type stuff than more power to you. Personally if I cannot even tell who the source is bashing someone then I retain skepticism. And quite frankly having managed kids around his age if the worst you can come up with is falling asleep at a motivational meeting or being late a time or two then I think you are way overblowing things anyway. It reads to me like someone with an axe to grind.

All we can really see is what is on the field and he looked to me like a young player learning a new scheme and particularly new techniques. You could see him thinking about where to put his hands and lose off the snap with the OL's inside. He wouldn't anticipate or see the backside double team or combo and get washed. OTOH, he looked in shape, didn't take plays off, and was able to use his techniques and win a lot too. Further because he was taking to the same techniques that Marinelli teaches to all the other DT and applying them to positive effect.

Results on the field matter. Did he bite as a puppy? Yeah he did. There are of course concerns about him working on his game but that will work itself out anyway. Results matter not some retiree's rah rah speech. Throwing away a progressing 21 year old because of maturity issues is poor management.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

See that's what I am talking about. Thanks for the insult though.

Observing underinformed people is not an insult. That is doubly so considering he is demonstrating verifiable information about game performance that you guys don't ever argue.

An objective judge will see one side using evidence and the other not doing so. if you want to keep your opinion then fine but don't get up in arms when he shows how the opinion is uninformed.

 

[Sydla]

One sided leaks are questionable. if you want to get upset about TMZ type stuff than more power to you. Personally if I cannot even tell who the source is bashing someone then I retain skepticism. And quite frankly having managed kids around his age if the worst you can come up with is falling asleep at a motivational meeting or being late a time or two then I think you are way overblowing things anyway. It reads to me like someone with an axe to grind.

All we can really see is what is on the field and he looked to me like a young player learning a new scheme and particularly new techniques. You could see him thinking about where to put his hands and lose off the snap with the OL's inside. He wouldn't anticipate or see the backside double team or combo and get washed. OTOH, he looked in shape, didn't take plays off, and was able to use his techniques and win a lot too. Further because he was taking to the same techniques that Marinelli teaches to all the other DT and applying them to positive effect.

Results on the field matter. Did he bite as a puppy? Yeah he did. There are of course concerns about him working on his game but that will work itself out anyway. Results matter not some retiree's rah rah speech. Throwing away a progressing 21 year old because of maturity issues is poor management.

TMZ stuff?

It was widely reported he fell asleep during one team function and was late for another. That's just reality. In November, Garrett was asked about it and he said in a press conference that Hill needed to essentially grow up and become more of a professional. So at this point, I think anyone who doesn't admit that Hill had some issues with maturity his rookie season is just burying one's head in the sand.

He certainly has the talent to be a good player. But he wouldn't be the first, nor the last, talented kid to have issues with maturity and just kind of squander what skills he had. And nowhere in my post did I talk about "throwing" Hill away. All I said is he better mature fast or he's going to find himself not in Dallas for much longer.

 

[Johnny23]

Observing underinformed people is not an insult. That is doubly so considering he is demonstrating verifiable information about game performance that you guys don't ever argue.

An objective judge will see one side using evidence and the other not doing so. if you want to keep your opinion then fine but don't get up in arms when he shows how the opinion is uninformed.

No he called me an idiot in a round about way which was an insult. It's not shocking you would stick up for him.

I can describe verbatim his multiple poor plays if I wanted to but I don't. Everyone knows that Tysten was not good last year and struggled. I don't have to write a 2500 word essay and make excuses for the kid.

 

[Beaker42]

xwalker once tried to claim 55 was 150% more than 37.

Is this a trick question? If 74 is 200% of 37, then 55 IS 150% of 37.........

 

[beware_d-ware]

Gallimore works hard on and off the field, while Hill doesn't. Hill's arguably a better athlete than Gallimore - nearly as explosive and not as stiff - but a hardworking, talented player is going to beat a similarly talented lazy player any day of the week.

 

[Johnny23]

Gallimore works hard on and off the field, while Hill doesn't. Hill's arguably a better athlete than Gallimore - nearly as explosive and not as stiff - but a hardworking, talented player is going to beat a similarly talented lazy player any day of the week.

Be careful. You saying this is going to get you labeled as an idiot.

 

[beware_d-ware]

Be careful. You saying this is going to get you labeled as an idiot.

If X wants to quote me with another copy-paste, that's fine by me. I don't even read them any more. Don't know why I don't have him on mute tbh.

 

[Johnny23]

If X wants to quote me with another copy-paste, that's fine by me. I don't even read them any more. Don't know why I don't have him on mute tbh.

Yeah. I know he loves the Cowboys we all do but I just don't understand viewing them through the eyes of a 12 year old anymore.

 

[DanA]

What writers and what exactly did they "report" other than the 1 meeting and 1 time being late.

• College DC
  • There was an interview with Hill's 2nd college DC (Randy Shannon). I posted it here last year.
  • He said that there was not a problem with Hill's attitude and that Hill worked hard in practice and had a "high motor".
  • The only problem they had related to "attitude" was that Hill got angry when the new HC denied his request to transfer with the other coaching staff.
  • It was not Shannon's decision to not start Hill. That was made by the HC. Shannon implied he didn't agree.
  • Hill was clearly better than the other DTs in game footage. Al Davis once "benched" Marcus Allen by not starting him and limiting his snaps because of personal reasons.
  • Shannon said that their HC didn't always start the best players. They started the players that best implemented their schemes/techniques.
  • Remember when Nick Golden Cock Hayden started multiple seasons at 1tech because he always had the least "loafs" when they graded film?
  • Much like what Marinelli said, Shannon said that Hill didn't always implement the techniques that they wanted him to use.
  • They had moved him to 3tech. He had played 3-4 NT with the previous coaching staff.
  • Just like Marinelli, they wanted him to focus on pass rushing but the original college staff had ingrained into him to play the run first.

• Fan Narrative
  • I'm certain that I've researched this subject far more than you have researched it.
  • I have no reason to support Hill. I didn't advocate to draft him or anything like that.
  • My interest is in regards to false fan narratives.
  • Hill was in the 2nd college Head Coaches doghouse; therefore the fan narrative becomes that he is lazy and a problem child.
  • The fan narrative continues despite the fact that the DC on that 2nd college coaching staff clearing saying that Hill did not have an attitude issue and that he practiced hard and had a high motor.
  • The fan narrative then expands due to minor issues during his rookie season despite Marinelli clearly saying that bad attitude or lack of work ethic were definitely not the problem.
  • Then the narrative further expands with either some media speculating that Hill had an attitude problem or fans imagining that the media "reported" that Hill had an attitude problem.

Is it just the fan narrative?

1. Hill didn't play a lot in college
2. Hill was in the dog house with college coaches
3. Hill appeared to be in the dog house with Cowboy coaches (reading between the lines)
4. Media have said "he was not well liked in the locker room"
5. This has been reiterated by independent coaches (non cowboy) who train others in the off-season
6. He looked terrible in training camp
7. Hill simply didn't play as a second round pick in his rookie season despite defense crying out for a DT

I'm not sure if he's a slow learner, has a poor attitude, didn't work on the playbook or just alienated himself but there is a body of evidence that points to a narrative of poor attitude. At some point you've got to look at this stuff and think where there is smoke there is also fire..

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No he called me an idiot in a round about way which was an insult. It's not shocking you would stick up for him.

I can describe verbatim his multiple poor plays if I wanted to but I don't. Everyone knows that Tysten was not good last year and struggled. I don't have to write a 2500 word essay and make excuses for the kid.

No, he spoke to your knowledge not your intellect. And talk is cheap. If it is so easy to find them to post then why are they not being posted?

At the end of the day, he had good plays and he had bad plays. You seem intent on biasing out the good.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

TMZ stuff?

It was widely reported he fell asleep during one team function and was late for another. That's just reality. In November, Garrett was asked about it and he said in a press conference that Hill needed to essentially grow up and become more of a professional. So at this point, I think anyone who doesn't admit that Hill had some issues with maturity his rookie season is just burying one's head in the sand.

He certainly has the talent to be a good player. But he wouldn't be the first, nor the last, talented kid to have issues with maturity and just kind of squander what skills he had. And nowhere in my post did I talk about "throwing" Hill away. All I said is he better mature fast or he's going to find himself not in Dallas for much longer.

Anonymous sources bashing a person on anecdotes. Anonymous sources claiming that random coaches and players have an issue with a person. Yeah TMZ stuff.

And, again, it is obvious you are not used to working with people in their early 20s. A 21 year old has maturity issues. . . That goes with dog bites man and water is wet.

And again, it is him falling asleep in a morale meeting and being late to a meeting. It is not substance abuse, it is not about him not coming in. It is not about him being out of shape. It is not about him not applying new techniques and progressing in the scheme.

No it's about he said she said nonsense and anecdotes that are true for about 90+ of people his age grandstanded. TMZ stuff.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Is this a trick question? If 74 is 200% of 37, then 55 IS 150% of 37.........

This was the original post that started all this (verbatim). xwalker said the following comparing rushing TDs between the Cowboys and Eagles:

The Cowboys have almost 150% more rushing TDs from 2016 to 2018
Cowboys 55
Eagles 37

When you're dealing with percentages, anytime you use "more" you're looking for percent increase. In this case, how much more (percentage wise) did the Cowboys score (rushing TDs) than the Eagles between the years 2016 to 2018?

Answer: The Cowboys scored apx. 49% more rushing TDs (55) than the Eagles did (37) between the years 2016-2018.

Think about it. If you got a pay raise going from $37/hour to $55/hour, you should know intuitively just looking at the numbers on paper that you didn't get a 150% increase to your hourly compensation (a 150% increase would mean you're making $92.50/hour).

This is a simple math error anyone can make in real-time on a message board.

I normally wouldn't even bother bringing it up to someone but xwalker is so intellectually dishonest he still won't admit to an error which makes things incredibly fun.

 

[beware_d-ware]

No, he spoke to your knowledge not your intellect. And talk is cheap. If it is so easy to find them to post then why are they not being posted?

At the end of the day, he had good plays and he had bad plays. You seem intent on biasing out the good.

I think his absence speaks louder than the plays he put in. On tape he wasn't that bad, but with all the DTs the Cowboys chose to play in front of him? Something's off there.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think his absence speaks louder than the plays he put in. On tape he wasn't that bad, but with all the DTs the Cowboys chose to play in front of him? Something's off there.

Rod Marinelli started Nick Hayden for years.

His absence is likely tied to him falling asleep and being late ie what was leaked. The eye test shows he can make plays in the NFL.

 

[xwalker]

Is it just the fan narrative?

1. Hill didn't play a lot in college
2. Hill was in the dog house with college coaches
3. Hill appeared to be in the dog house with Cowboy coaches (reading between the lines)
4. Media have said "he was not well liked in the locker room"
5. This has been reiterated by independent coaches (non cowboy) who train others in the off-season
6. He looked terrible in training camp
7. Hill simply didn't play as a second round pick in his rookie season despite defense crying out for a DT

I'm not sure if he's a slow learner, has a poor attitude, didn't work on the playbook or just alienated himself but there is a body of evidence that points to a narrative of poor attitude. At some point you've got to look at this stuff and think where there is smoke there is also fire..

• The Real Issue
  • Hill had played as a 3-4 NT with the 1st college coaching staff, starting for 2 seasons.
  • He loved the original college coaching staff and bought into what they taught him which was to play the run as a priority.
  • The 2nd college coaching staff and Marinelli wanted him to be a pass rusher, but he had been programmed by the original staff to stop the run.
  • When he tried to implement Marinelli's "play the run on the way to the QB" he just ended up out of position.
  • His biggest issue in the preseason games was playing against zone run blocking.
  • The #1 problem for the Cowboys defense in 2019 was playing against zone run blocking.
  • The Rams exposed their weakness against zone run blocking in the 2018 season playoff game, and other offenses just followed that game plan in 2019.
  • The last thing the Cowboys needed in 2019 was a rookie didn't understand playing against NFL zone run blocking considering the coaches didn't know either.

1. Hill didn't play a lot in college
He started for 2 seasons then didn't start his final season but played more than the starting DTs and had the best stats of the UCF DTs that season.

He was actually awesome in multiple games that season.

2. Hill was in the dog house with college coaches
Not with the original coaching staff. Not with the 2nd D-Coordinator who did an interview after that draft and went into detail about Hill.

The 2nd D-Coordinator gave Hill a terrific review in the interview but he made it clear that Hill was slow to adapt to their scheme.

The 2nd Head Coach got irritated because Hill was upset when his request to transfer with the original coaching staff was denied.

3. Hill appeared to be in the dog house with Cowboy coaches (reading between the lines)
Not according to Marinelli. Marinelli said "He has the want to and the work ethic but he is just not getting it"

4. Media have said "he was not well liked in the locker room"
I don't think that has been reported. Many media speculate that maybe that was the issue but I have not seen any media say they know it was an issue.

5. This has been reiterated by independent coaches (non cowboy) who train others in the off-season
I don't think so? Who? How would they know what happens in the Cowboys locker-room during the season?

6. He looked terrible in training camp
No, he did not. He looked very good physically. He just looked lost at times vs certain types of plays.

7. Hill simply didn't play as a second round pick in his rookie season despite defense crying out for a DT
Rookie 2nd round picks are historically hit or miss. Fans only remember the ones that were a hit but most 2nd round picks have very limited contributions as rookies.