Would the Patriots have given Dak the deal he wants?

Adreme said:
Very correct. You can go look up his contract. His first extension was pretty early on when they got him when he had really proven himself yet. His second extension he got paid. By his 3rd extension he had married someone worth double his net worth, but by all means do not let facts get in the way of your argument.

Also, if you set the bar at "be like Brady or no deal" then you are going to not have a starting QB for any real stretch of time.
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Apparently you failed to notice that Brady took the Patriots to the AFC Championship game 5 times and to the super bowl 4 times in his first 6 seasons. So please tell us how Dak rates a top tier contract without having come even remotely close to putting skins on the wall like Brady.

We'll sit here and wait patiently for your response.
 
Adreme said:
Wins are a team stat not an individual stat.

I am not saying Brady did not deserve to get paid but Brady did not put together that kind of season until he started getting all pro talent. A good QB can get the most of his weapons, but if the weapons are terrible then you are not going to be able to get much out of them (that and Brady really was a work in progress for the first part of his career).
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Stupid argument. Brady played in and won the super bowl his 1st year as a starter. Please explain your second paragraph again because its totally false.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_Championship_Game
 
J12B said:
No.

They wouldn't have.

Brady always played on a team friendly deal and he's won 17 Superbowls.

Oh, and yes, I'm aware we are not the Patriots and not anything close to them.

Maybe this is the step towards the Patriot way. Still have a long ways to go, but at least it's a step.
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That is simply not true
Brady has not always played on a team friendly deal
 
acr731 said:
Apparently you failed to notice that Brady took the Patriots to the AFC Championship game 5 times and to the super bowl 4 times in his first 6 seasons. So please tell us how Dak rates a top tier contract without having come even remotely close to putting skins on the wall like Brady.

We'll sit here and wait patiently for your response.
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Wins are a team stat. The TEAM went to the AFC championship game that many times and to the SB 4 times in his first 6 seasons. Tom Brady was not really looking like the best QB in the NFL until 2007 which is 2 years after he signed his first extension.

If I were to make a list of the top 20 QBs of all time I can tell you right now Terry Bradshaw would not even come close to being on it.
 
J12B said:
No.

They wouldn't have.

Brady always played on a team friendly deal and he's won 17 Superbowls.

Oh, and yes, I'm aware we are not the Patriots and not anything close to them.

Maybe this is the step towards the Patriot way. Still have a long ways to go, but at least it's a step.
Click to expand...

Not sure about that one. Belli can be the odd ball on things like that.
 
Adreme said:
Wins are a team stat. The TEAM went to the AFC championship game that many times and to the SB 4 times in his first 6 seasons. Tom Brady was not really looking like the best QB in the NFL until 2007 which is 2 years after he signed his first extension.

If I were to make a list of the top 20 QBs of all time I can tell you right now Terry Bradshaw would not even come close to being on it.
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So then we should build a TEAM and not pay our average QB 40 million

that’s great :muttley:
 
visionary said:
So then we should build a TEAM and not pay our average QB 40 million

that’s great :muttley:
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I mean if you can get one of the 12 or so guys who are good enough to win a SB with to sign with you for less than that (the power of the QB has only gone up over the years not down especially as the rules to make it easier on offense came into play in mid 2000s) or win the 1/3 chance that you can get one in the first round and draft one, then by all means go that way. It is a big gamble but when it works it works great. Of course when it does not work you are the either Browns for the past 20+ years (worst case) or the Texans of the early 2010s, who could have been something special if only they had a decent QB.

It is not an impossible gamble, but it is a very rare thing in today's NFL to build an NFL team without a QB.
 
Hoody would have convinced him to play on a "team friendly" deal. All that hardware is mesmerizing, casting a spell of just wanting to win in players.
 
Tom brady has been carried by the best coach in history and a top 10 dvoa defense for like 20 straight years
 
Adreme said:
I mean if you can get one of the 12 or so guys who are good enough to win a SB with to sign with you for less than that (the power of the QB has only gone up over the years not down especially as the rules to make it easier on offense came into play in mid 2000s) or win the 1/3 chance that you can get one in the first round and draft one, then by all means go that way. It is a big gamble but when it works it works great. Of course when it does not work you are the either Browns for the past 20+ years (worst case) or the Texans of the early 2010s, who could have been something special if only they had a decent QB.

It is not an impossible gamble, but it is a very rare thing in today's NFL to build an NFL team without a QB.
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So even though “it’s a TEAM game” and “TEAMS with SBs not QBs” and even though the QB with the most SB wins in history “wasn’t responsible for those victories it was the TEAM” and he didnt deserve to be paid like an elite QB but we should pay our average QB (who has never even won back to back playoff games let alone a SB) like an elite QB because our only chance is that he will suddenly win a SB for us ?

yeah makes total sense

just quit while you’re behind
 
Not likely, he wouldn't fit into Belichick's cap formula. He is also one of the few in the game that could build around an affordable mid level QB and still be successful. He is not relaint on the GOAT QB play.

He also wouldn't have gotten himself into the same situation as the Joneses because he's not about letting players have leverage. He moves first and quickly to not allow when happened in PIT and DAL with the dollar dominoes falling. If he thinks the first one is going to fall, he'll move it somewhere else first.
 
Swagger said:
No the Patriots do not over pay any of their players. That's the special ingredient to their success.
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Not true. They over paid Adalius Thomas and regretted it.

Yes, they manage a team better but it always looks that way when you have a HOF and arguably the best QB ever playing for you.
 
Adreme said:
Brady did not take team friendly deals until after he got married to someone worth double his net worth.
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NOT TRUE.

Wasn't it you I had this discussion w/ previously? Brady took less from the start. Look it up, your idea has been completely debunked.
 
visionary said:
So even though “it’s a TEAM game” and “TEAMS with SBs not QBs” and even though the QB with the most SB wins in history “wasn’t responsible for those victories it was the TEAM” and he didnt deserve to be paid like an elite QB but we should pay our average QB (who has never even won back to back playoff games let alone a SB) like an elite QB because our only chance is that he will suddenly win a SB for us ?

yeah makes total sense

just quit while you’re behind
Click to expand...

I mean I am so far ahead that you had to actually rewrite my argument into something it was not.

Teams win Super Bowls. This is a fact. When he signed his first extension he had yet to have a year that stood out as a QB. This is also a fact. Being the most important position, and being the only position that matters, are not the same thing. He clearly showed he was good enough to win a SB, but back then the need to have one of the top 12 was not as big as it is now.

Also he was getting paid like an elite player, he just was not getting paid the highest contract in the NFL. Again though it was a different era. Outside of Peyton Manning, who was basically playing QB and being the OC, the role of the QB was not as key as it was now. It was not until the year he signed that extension (or it might have been the year after my memories from when NFL rule changes occurred are rusty but I know the game that caused it) that they really went all in on the rules to help offenses. Combine that with the rookie wage scale and suddenly you have QB contracts ballooning like they have the past 8 or 9 years. Accuracy numbers have skyrocketed, while INT numbers have plummeted.

The final point though still stands. Even in some world where he was taking less money. If your demand for a QB is to be Tom Brady with his contracts, you are not going to have a QB, because nobody else is doing that. So you can sit there with those standards and not be competitive or you can join the real world and know the price of winning
 
jaythecowboy said:
Brady didn't take a discount though. He came in and won a Super Bowl but he'd barely been a starter. I don't look at that contract in '02 as Brady giving a discount. That contract is comparable to the one Foles got after his Super Bowl run. The contract he signed in '05 made him the highest in the league.
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Payton was on a 7 year/98 mil contract. Brady signed for 6 yrs/60 mil.

Honestly, guys, this is easy to google. There is simply no reason to make stuff up.
 
kskboys said:
NOT TRUE.

Wasn't it you I had this discussion w/ previously? Brady took less from the start. Look it up, your idea has been completely debunked.
Click to expand...

I did look it up discuss it and prove it. He was never going to get Manning money. His 2010 deal was not leaving money on the table and his 2005 deal was early enough that he did not have the resume to demand top dollar.
 
If Dak had the Pats ST and defense he would have won a title.
He'd have been extended either way because the Pats play chess and not spreadsheet CPA.

They'd have given him a 4 year extension 2 years ago and he'd be hitting the cap for like 15M.
 
kskboys said:
Payton was on a 7 year/98 mil contract. Brady signed for 6 yrs/60 mil.

Honestly, guys, this is easy to google. There is simply no reason to make stuff up.
Click to expand...

That was my mistake. I thought Manning signed after Brady.
 
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