Zeke & Henry comparison thus far

[aria]

Not all of them but a helluva lot of them yes. Look at the number of times "he got his money and now..." gets brought up. If you only care about performance why does his salary matter? Jerry aint passin the hat askin me to help pay the salaries so aside from the impact on the salary cap I could care less what these guys make.

Lol, you’re joking right? Ever hear of a thing called the salary cap? When a player that pulls the crap zeke did and doesn’t deliver it’s wasted money. That money could have been spent on better player or FA’s. Hell, we could have still had a top CB but they decided to pay zeke instead of Jones, how’s that working out?

You do know this isn’t 1990 anymore? If there wasn’t a salary cap I would just laugh at Jerry for wasting his own money but zekes demands effect the entire team which is all I care about.

 

[aria]

I guess it's possible.. but his carries are way down the last two seasons over what they had been. Still I remember when we did get him into space on the screen against the Rams he hit the accelerator and was on the defenders before they knew he was there. Then with one simple cut he was able to waltz into the end zone. I don't he was ever as fast on the top end as Henry.. but he was quicker to accelerate and at least as hard to tackle. Witness their broken tackle rates being nearly identical this year. And I guarantee you that it's easier to break tackles when you are taking handoffs from 7 yards deep in the I or the one back set than it is taking shotgun handoffs and really having no momentum as you hit the line. Also a back built like Zeke doesn't have to be particularly elusive. If he attacks a defender at the appropriate angle that defender has next to zero chance of tackling him even if he gets a hand or two on him. Frankly I would argue that 10 broken tackles for Zeke is probably low. But maybe they only count it if the defender gets both arms and/or a shoulder on him? Cause Zeke runs through a half dozen tacklers every game.

You’re bringing up ONE play to defend him?! Do you watch other RB’s? Most RB’s make that kind of play and effort every game. People are so used to seeing zeke run out of bounds instead of trying to make someone miss that when he does occasionally make a move, like the one you referenced against the Rams, he’s considered a great RB.

A back like zeke doesn’t have to be elusive? What a joke. So you think getting 2 yards from running into someone is better than 20 from making him miss?

Man, at first I thought you were a decent poster who did some research but the more you type and make excuses for this diva the worse you’re starting to look.

This article is 2 years old but if anything has changed it would only make zeke look even worse. I suggest you read it in it’s entirety before you start bragging about how unique zeke is due to his power and short yard gains.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ezekiel-elliott-is-not-worth-the-money-he-wants/

 

[quickccc]

What's crazy is the fumbles and his longest runs. I mean geezus what happen to the speed of Zeke.

My theory is the Garrett regime bulked him up to be more of a pounding bel cow ...and less of a homerun hitter.

some backs..some players can take on additional bulk and weight to their frame and not miss a beat ... while some lose explosiveness- acceleration.

Garrett wanted more of that 90's battering ram offense and they even wanted to overwhelm zeke with more dump off touches in pass game
at one point zeke never got adequate backup relief because Rod Smith was hideously useless as a result zeke was admittedly beaten down.and sore.

It all happened after the 2017 season, in 2018, zeke only had one run of 40 yards... that was the season i've presumed that they bulked him up and
that's when the marked speed and explosiveness dsiappeared ...

 

[RonnieT24]

You’re bringing up ONE play to defend him?! Do you watch other RB’s? Most RB’s make that kind of play and effort every game. People are so used to seeing zeke run out of bounds instead of trying to make someone miss that when he does occasionally make a move, like the one you referenced against the Rams, he’s considered a great RB.

A back like zeke doesn’t have to be elusive? What a joke. So you think getting 2 yards from running into someone is better than 20 from making him miss?

Man, at first I thought you were a decent poster who did some research but the more you type and make excuses for this diva the worse you’re starting to look.

This article is 2 years old but if anything has changed it would only make zeke look even worse. I suggest you read it in it’s entirety before you start bragging about how unique zeke is due to his power and short yard gains.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ezekiel-elliott-is-not-worth-the-money-he-wants/

Usain Bolt only had to run the 100 meters in under 9.6 ONE time to show he was capable of it. And he never did it again.. I only needed to see Zeke explode when he hit the accelerator once to know that the speed is still there.. he just chooses not to use it as much. Maybe he's pacing himself.. I honestly don't know.. But I don't need to seem him run away from DBs every game to accept that he can do it.

So umm.. most RB's gain more yards than Zeke every game? Yet he ends up near the top of the league every year? Zeke is 9th in the league in rushing and 7th in the league in yards after contact. So who are these "most RBs" you're talking about who must clearly be outperforming him. He's playing behind crap for for a line for a head coach who wants him to be a fullback yet there he sits in the top 10 in most every meaningful category. You clearly have a different definition of "most" than I do. Maybe it's because I played the game.. maybe it's because I coached it for a long time but I much prefer a back who can give me a consistent 4.5 yards a pop even if he only occasionally breaks one over a guy who gives me 2 yards per carry for 10 carries then breaks off a 50 yarder then crows about his yards per carry. I don't care if the latter guy gives me one of those every game he is NOT the back I would take to war with me. Give me that guy who keeps the chains moving every day all day. Why do you think Frank Gore is still in the league at age 37? Emmitt could have played until he was 40 if he wanted to. Marcus Allen was the same way. So was Curtis Martin. Guys who can move the chains will always have value in the league. Even in it's ridiculously pass happy present incarnation. You prefer the highlight film guy? Fine that's your prerogative. Just don't try to push it on me. I know better. As do most coaches. The only reason Zeke is not earning the money we paid him is opportunity. He is getting fewer touches and he's playing in a pass happy offense. I will gladly concede that if that's what we were going to do we should NOT have signed him. My hope is that we wake up from this 65% passing nightmare and go back to playing smashmouth football. At which point Zeke will go back to being the best back in the league and worth every penny ..

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

This is what is telling to me.

Stacked Box % & YPC
2020
Henry - 25.2% (4.8 ypc)
Zeke - 13.86% (4.1 ypc)

2019
Henry - 35.1% (5.1 ypc)
Zeke - 19.27% (4.5 ypc)

2018
Henry - 32.09% (4.9 ypc)
Zeke - 24.67% (4.7 ypc)

2017
Henry - 50.00% (4.2 ypc)
Zeke - 35.12% (4.1 ypc)

2016
Henry - 52.73% (4.5 ypc)
Zeke - 28.88% (5.1 ypc)

I'm embarrassed for those that thought Zeke was better.

 

[RonnieT24]

I'm embarrassed for those that thought Zeke was better.

Zeke is still the better all around player but clearly Henry is having a better year on the ground. I'm not sure what there is to be embarrassed about. Zeke's having a crappy year.. Up until last game Henry was actually having a worse year. Don't get sucked into recency bias. Henry had under 400 yards and was averaging under 4 yards per tote until his big game last weekend.

 

[morasp]

Turnovers are the most important game stat.

 

[RonnieT24]

Turnovers are the most important game stat.

Yet this team has won two games in which they lost the turnover battle by a combined 7-1. Go figure.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Zeke is still the better all around player but clearly Henry is having a better year on the ground. I'm not sure what there is to be embarrassed about. Zeke's having a crappy year.. Up until last game Henry was actually having a worse year. Don't get sucked into recency bias. Henry had under 400 yards and was averaging under 4 yards per tote until his big game last weekend.

He isn't, and hasn't been for multiple seasons now.

Before the last game, Derrick was 2nd in the league in yards after contact, while Zeke was leading the league in fumbles. After this last game Zeke has expanding his lead and Henry is now #1 in yards after contact. No he was not having the better season haha

 

[RonnieT24]

He isn't, and hasn't been for multiple seasons now.

Before the last game, Derrick was 2nd in the league in yards after contact, while Zeke was leading the league in fumbles. After this last game Zeke has expanding his lead and Henry is now #1 in yards after contact. No he was not having the better season haha

What part of "Zeke's having a crappy year" did you interpret to mean "he was having a better season?" Henry was averaging 3.7 yards per carry. Or about half a yard less per tote than Zeke was. Sooooo... yeah.. up until this weekend Henry was having a worse year running the ball than Zeke was. Does that clear it up for you?

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Anyone using the OLs as an excuse, Cowboys have had the better run blockimg this season


I also didn't see yall using Zeke's OL as a crutch early in his career when it was elite. Don't start using it now lmao.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

What part of "Zeke's having a crappy year" did you interpret to mean "he was having a better season?"

I said multiple seasons, not "one crappy season".

You blatantly said he was having a better season prior to last week.

Your response makes no sense to what I said.

 

[DaveRowe]

....Zeke situation went bad, after signing on the dotted line. ..

Amen, brother! Zeke is Dallas', Antonio Brown.

 

[quickccc]

These projections are based on nonsense. Henry was averaging 4.05 yards per carry before he had the 94 yard run. He isn't going to break a 94 yard run every few games.

Henry already has a 99 and 94 yard run to his credit ..to his resume, .. thats something even Saquon Barkley and McCaffrey don't have

Henry has already had several more 20 and 40+ runs than zeke, and he's a more bigger back than zeke.

and i'll never get those saying " take away this so-so long run " .... how you taking away his huge long run when it's him and his abilitymu.; that made that long run ? ..lol...

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Career yards per game over five years:

Zeke: 94
Henry: 66

Not sure this really helps though. Henry's first two seasons were just OK in terms of yards but look at his APG.

Rookie Year: Henry only got 7.3 attempts per game. Zeke got 21.5

2nd Year: Henry got 11.0 attempts per game. Zeke got 24.2

And Henry has really played in a much more limited offense IMO. Our talent, in terms of the passing game really helps open up the field for Zeke. Henry is running against and extra man in the box a lot of the time. Hard to argue against Henry's production IMO.

 

[aria]

Usain Bolt only had to run the 100 meters in under 9.6 ONE time to show he was capable of it. And he never did it again.. I only needed to see Zeke explode when he hit the accelerator once to know that the speed is still there.. he just chooses not to use it as much. Maybe he's pacing himself.. I honestly don't know.. But I don't need to seem him run away from DBs every game to accept that he can do it.

So umm.. most RB's gain more yards than Zeke every game? Yet he ends up near the top of the league every year? Zeke is 9th in the league in rushing and 7th in the league in yards after contact. So who are these "most RBs" you're talking about who must clearly be outperforming him. He's playing behind crap for for a line for a head coach who wants him to be a fullback yet there he sits in the top 10 in most every meaningful category. You clearly have a different definition of "most" than I do. Maybe it's because I played the game.. maybe it's because I coached it for a long time but I much prefer a back who can give me a consistent 4.5 yards a pop even if he only occasionally breaks one over a guy who gives me 2 yards per carry for 10 carries then breaks off a 50 yarder then crows about his yards per carry. I don't care if the latter guy gives me one of those every game he is NOT the back I would take to war with me. Give me that guy who keeps the chains moving every day all day. Why do you think Frank Gore is still in the league at age 37? Emmitt could have played until he was 40 if he wanted to. Marcus Allen was the same way. So was Curtis Martin. Guys who can move the chains will always have value in the league. Even in it's ridiculously pass happy present incarnation. You prefer the highlight film guy? Fine that's your prerogative. Just don't try to push it on me. I know better. As do most coaches. The only reason Zeke is not earning the money we paid him is opportunity. He is getting fewer touches and he's playing in a pass happy offense. I will gladly concede that if that's what we were going to do we should NOT have signed him. My hope is that we wake up from this 65% passing nightmare and go back to playing smashmouth football. At which point Zeke will go back to being the best back in the league and worth every penny ..

Lets take this in steps. He’s near the top of the league every year in yards, where is he in carries and how do you think those two correlate with with each other?

You would rather take a guy who averages 4.5 yards a pop but without a top 5 O line zeke already has two games with ~2.5 ypc and it would be 3 gams if it weren’t for his 25 yard run against Cleveland.

Stop using the O line as an excuse, I never heard any of his supporters making excuses for Barkley when he was putting up similar numbers behind one of the worst O lines in the league as zeke behind one of the best in the league.

It seems like you’re still stick in the 90’s. Smash mouth football doesn’t work in todays league and our offense has never been the problem. You want to go back to running the ball every down when teams are putting up points at will? How exactly do you think we’ll keep up? You want to keep giving him the ball when he’s averaging less than 3 ypc in half the games he’s played and is leading the league fumbles?! Hell, they BENCHED him for a good reason and you think he should ball more, lol.

RB’s are a dime a dozen, especially when you have a top O line like zeke has had. Now once he doesn’t have a great O line, he’s been exposed. He falls in the average to below average in almost every statistical category outside of total yards and total carries and this isn’t a result of the current O line. He has always been average to below average in those categories and the O line masked that, some of us saw it and others didn’t or were in denial.

So you think Barkley is nothing but a highlight reel RB when he’s played behind a horrible O line, beats zeke in almost every category such as yards after contact, yards after catch, elusiveness, etc but now zeke is putting up pathetic numbers and he gets the O line excuse? Seems a bit hypocritical. If Barkley had the same O line zeke has had, with the same amount of carries and the same amount of room to run he would have smoked zeke’s numbers.

BTW, did you ever think that zeke’s yards after contact numbers are a bit misleading? Instead of making people miss or because he can’t make people miss, he prefers to run right into them for a couple yards instead of avoiding them for several more yards.

 

[Kaiser]

And Henry has really played in a much more limited offense IMO. Our talent, in terms of the passing game really helps open up the field for Zeke. Henry is running against and extra man in the box a lot of the time. Hard to argue against Henry's production IMO.

I'm not arguing against Henry's production but Zeke is a much better back and has a better overall game. Zeke had the same challenges also, the 2018 teams had a very poor OL (second most sacks allowed in the NFL) and this year is even worse. In 2018 we were actually starting guys at WR like Deonte Thompson.

IMO all those factors work both ways when you look at their career stats. Henry is a very good RB, but Zeke is a great one (Monday's crossover dribbling notwithstanding).

 

[RonnieT24]

Lets take this in steps. He’s near the top of the league every year in yards, where is he in carries and how do you think those two correlate with with each other?

You would rather take a guy who averages 4.5 yards a pop but without a top 5 O line zeke already has two games with ~2.5 ypc and it would be 3 gams if it weren’t for his 25 yard run against Cleveland.

Stop using the O line as an excuse, I never heard any of his supporters making excuses for Barkley when he was putting up similar numbers behind one of the worst O lines in the league as zeke behind one of the best in the league.

It seems like you’re still stick in the 90’s. Smash mouth football doesn’t work in todays league and our offense has never been the problem. You want to go back to running the ball every down when teams are putting up points at will? How exactly do you think we’ll keep up? You want to keep giving him the ball when he’s averaging less than 3 ypc in half the games he’s played and is leading the league fumbles?! Hell, they BENCHED him for a good reason and you think he should ball more, lol.

RB’s are a dime a dozen, especially when you have a top O line like zeke has had. Now once he doesn’t have a great O line, he’s been exposed. He falls in the average to below average in almost every statistical category outside of total yards and total carries and this isn’t a result of the current O line. He has always been average to below average in those categories and the O line masked that, some of us saw it and others didn’t or were in denial.

So you think Barkley is nothing but a highlight reel RB when he’s played behind a horrible O line, beats zeke in almost every category such as yards after contact, yards after catch, elusiveness, etc but now zeke is putting up pathetic numbers and he gets the O line excuse? Seems a bit hypocritical. If Barkley had the same O line zeke has had, with the same amount of carries and the same amount of room to run he would have smoked zeke’s numbers.

BTW, did you ever think that zeke’s yards after contact numbers are a bit misleading? Instead of making people miss or because he can’t make people miss, he prefers to run right into them for a couple yards instead of avoiding them for several more yards.

First of all you seem have a hard enough time thinking for yourself so I would thank you not to attempt to think for me. I think Barkley is a FABULOUS running back and would be happy to have him on my team. This insistence that one guy has to suck in order for another guy to be good is junior high BS. I'm not in junior high. Barkley is great.. Henry is great.. Over the course of his career Zeke has been great but he is not great this year. If that's too nuanced for you then that's your problem not mine. There are a ton of good backs in the league. Frankly a damn sight more than there are good QBs but that's a discussion for another thread.

As for Zeke being "average to below average in almost every statistical category" you're going to need a slide rule to explain how being among the top 10 in yards (9th) , rushing TDs (T4), first downs (3), yards after contact (7th) and broken tackles (T8th) makes him "average to below average." I would love to know how he's ahead of so many guys yet is "average to below average in almost every statistical category." How does that work? The numbers say you are lying.. Zeke is at worst a top 10 back by pretty much any objective measure.. sans the fumbling this year of course.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm not arguing against Henry's production but Zeke is a much better back and has a better overall game. Zeke had the same challenges also, the 2018 teams had a very poor OL (second most sacks allowed in the NFL) and this year is even worse. In 2018 we were actually starting guys at WR like Deonte Thompson.

IMO all those factors work both ways when you look at their career stats. Henry is a very good RB, but Zeke is a great one (Monday's crossover dribbling notwithstanding).

I don't really look at it that way. In fact, I'd have taken Henry of Zeke TBH.

 

[BlueStar22]

.......Zeke making $90 million, Henry basically half of that with his new contract: Notice Fumble stat in just 5 games.

They came in together in 2016. Compare their careers.