Zeke & Henry comparison thus far

[RonnieT24]

im not going into tear down Henry to make case for Zeke, its not necessary they both are very good backs. There are more then one actually the top 6 backs can all make case for the best..

Its od dour own fans tear down Zeke to try and make case that zeke was mistake and always end up with egg on their face..

zeke has nearly an identical YOC as henry with nearly 300 carries more in the same time span, that nearly a years more carries and nearly identical YPC ,more tds, and more recurving yards, more receiving tds, a better blocker, and still holdup ie never missed game due to injury..

of course zekes numbers have went down , KM changed to pass first pass happy offense , the OL is and has been going down the last 3 seasons and we are playing from behind now all 6 games..Zekes on the field now on about 80% of the snaps compared to 60% because hes being used so much for blocking, the way KM calls plays Zekes been turned into a FB..

if fans are blind to it , well im sorry ill defense him..


the fumbles are unacceptable and hes taken ownership and working to fix it..

I still dont get the constant hate and trollig every chance they get..

I've mentioned this on more than one occasion. Our running game has turned into almost exclusively A gap to A gap plodding up the middle. We see only 2-3 off tackle runs per game and a wide run maybe once every other game. This year I can sort of understand since the tackles are undrafted free agents and the guys in the middle WERE the most experienced. But Connor Williams has never been a road grader blocker in the run game and probably never will be. Looney is maybe slightly above average so the only A player on the line now was Martin and it's not like every team in the NFL doesn't know that and simply stack guys to that side anytime we need tough yards. He can't block them all. And now he's gone anyway. The fact of the matter is guys like Steele and Knight are probably 5 times better at run blocking than they are pass blocking. As such we need to do MORE running behind them not less.. Both guys are huge too.. Far better to get them moving forward than trying to pass block.. And asking these behemoths to get out and lead Zeke on screens has been a disaster. We need to take that play out of the playbook until the varsity comes back. But what do I know.

As for the trolling and hate.. It's simple.. these guys are making millions of dollars a year to do something we all would have killed to be able to do. Some people are jealous and it makes them feel better about their own 50K/year job to take shots at these guys. It's not going to change but good on you for being willing to stand up to them. So long as you know that trolls don't really care if you post things that expose them and make them look stupid. They declare themselves having "won" if you respond to them at all.

 

[blueblood70]

I've mentioned this on more than one occasion. Our running game has turned into almost exclusively A gap to A gap plodding up the middle. We see only 2-3 off tackle runs per game and a wide run maybe once every other game. This year I can sort of understand since the tackles are undrafted free agents and the guys in the middle WERE the most experienced. But Connor Williams has never been a road grader blocker in the run game and probably never will be. Looney is maybe slightly above average so the only A player on the line now was Martin and it's not like every team in the NFL doesn't know that and simply stack guys to that side anytime we need tough yards. He can't block them all. And now he's gone anyway. The fact of the matter is guys like Steele and Knight are probably 5 times better at run blocking than they are pass blocking. As such we need to do MORE running behind them not less.. Both guys are huge too.. Far better to get them moving forward than trying to pass block.. And asking these behemoths to get out and lead Zeke on screens has been a disaster. We need to take that play out of the playbook until the varsity comes back. But what do I know.

As for the trolling and hate.. It's simple.. these guys are making millions of dollars a year to do something we all would have killed to be able to do. Some people are jealous and it makes them feel better about their own 50K/year job to take shots at these guys. It's not going to change but good on you for being willing to stand up to them. So long as you know that trolls don't really care if you post things that expose them and make them look stupid. They declare themselves having "won" if you respond to them at all.

agree in short if the fans cant see KM has brought wide open pass happy approach to the offense yet in the run game uses zeke like friggen FB arent watching closely..

hes now being over used as blocker and ran into a hole he has to turn sideways or makes himself which not sure how you get any speed built up that way, its insane the trolling that goes ion for arguably one of our best players whos career has started at least production wise very much like Emmiits..

 

[aria]

I didn't conveniently leave anything out. You're right, he's had more than 1.5 good years. Good call. I guess my point was more that no one here was pining for him then. It's just started about the last season and a half. It's weird to me guys have really chosen a guy based on that production over what Zeke has done in his career in Dallas. I'll never argue Zeke is thr best back in the game right now, or that he's even better than Henry, but there is something to be said about loyalty. There seems to be no more loyalty on this forum anymore.

Also, I've been extremely critical of Zeke this season. I've been active in the forum and GameDay threads all season about it. I'm not a Homer for him. It's just the level of calusness some here show to players.

Then again, I guess the players haven't done much to earn the devotion or respect that former Cowboys players got and still get. It's just been a real weird season as a fan, man.

Loyalty? To who? The same guy that held this team hostage with two years left on his contract which was an unprecedented move by any NFL player? The Same guy that continuously put this team at risk with his off the field behavior? The same guy that should be arrested for theft because he’s not coming anywhere close to earning the money he demanded?

 

[aria]

I've mentioned this on more than one occasion. Our running game has turned into almost exclusively A gap to A gap plodding up the middle. We see only 2-3 off tackle runs per game and a wide run maybe once every other game. This year I can sort of understand since the tackles are undrafted free agents and the guys in the middle WERE the most experienced. But Connor Williams has never been a road grader blocker in the run game and probably never will be. Looney is maybe slightly above average so the only A player on the line now was Martin and it's not like every team in the NFL doesn't know that and simply stack guys to that side anytime we need tough yards. He can't block them all. And now he's gone anyway. The fact of the matter is guys like Steele and Knight are probably 5 times better at run blocking than they are pass blocking. As such we need to do MORE running behind them not less.. Both guys are huge too.. Far better to get them moving forward than trying to pass block.. And asking these behemoths to get out and lead Zeke on screens has been a disaster. We need to take that play out of the playbook until the varsity comes back. But what do I know.

As for the trolling and hate.. It's simple.. these guys are making millions of dollars a year to do something we all would have killed to be able to do. Some people are jealous and it makes them feel better about their own 50K/year job to take shots at these guys. It's not going to change but good on you for being willing to stand up to them. So long as you know that trolls don't really care if you post things that expose them and make them look stupid. They declare themselves having "won" if you respond to them at all.

Lol, nice non original play on the jealousy angle.

So the people that are critical of other players making money are all jealous due to what the players do for a living and how much they make, is that right?

 

[blueblood70]

. So long as you know that trolls don't really care if you post things that expose them and make them look stupid. They declare themselves having "won" if you respond to them at all.

I get that but have MOST of the trolls i take issue with Ignored, might be adding a few more to keep myself from impulsively reply to them..

 

[Aviano90]

There's 1.

Watch a TENN game. You'll clearly see what I'm talking about. And this is a known trait of his, not some big secret.

I watch Tennessee. I don't see Zeke doing anything that Henry doesn't outside of being a better blocker, sometimes hurdling, being used (ineffectively) in the pass game more often, and being a more punishing player at the point of contact. I do see Henry getting tough yards, defenses focusing on him more than they do Zeke, stiff arm like a man possessed, can side step safeties to get to the open field, and has outstanding top end speed.

 

[mcmvp]

literally making pro-zeke fans point for us..nearly 400 more carries and yet with that many carries over the same time frame Zekes got career 4.6 YPC avg and henry 4.8

seriously you know how hard it is to keep an average close to the same with 400 more caries, typically averages go down get worse with volume..its nearly identical , zeke has 3 times the receiving yards, 1 more td, 6 more receiving tds, a better blocker etc

he never hurt also part of his worth..

Zekes on the field 80% of the snaps this year vs 60% meaning they are over suing the player as blocking style FB whos also running behind a line no where near 2016 where henry ha snow got line very close to it with a new run philosophy based Offense like we had 2016-2018 and we switched to pass happy KM Boise state offense and are playing from 14-17 points down all the time..kind of hard to run and be efficient at it with these circumstances yet hes holding his own..

no need for the constant hate and trolling making comps that are worthless because they arent sharing snaps on the same team for real comp..Henrys good, zekes good, chubs good, CM is good , Kamara's good, cooks good..yes its ok to have more then one great back playing in the same era, its done all the time..

BTW on Zekes contract the first 2 years hes not been the highest paid RB in the league, hes second..others have got paid , other have got picked high in drafts, zeke one of the ones that still holding his own despite detractors..

give it a rest, hes wearing the star and outside of the recent fumbles, hes doing his job..

I wasn't taking any side in the Henry vs Zeke debate. They are both great backs. I think Zeke has had the better career so far...but he's also been in a better situation as far as supporting cast, and also opportunities given. I think Henry is the better back right now...Zeke's mileage is catching up to him. The Cowboys used an awful lot of money to re-invest in tires with that much mileage.

 

[RonnieT24]

I watch Tennessee. I don't see Zeke doing anything that Henry doesn't outside of being a better blocker, sometimes hurdling, being used (ineffectively) in the pass game more often, and being a more punishing player at the point of contact. I do see Henry getting tough yards, defenses focusing on him more than they do Zeke, stiff arm like a man possessed, can side step safeties to get to the open field, and has outstanding top end speed.

Let me begin by saying that I loved Henry coming into the draft and would have been happy if we had drafted him instead of Zeke. They are obviously two very different backs who get it done in very different ways. It's to Tennessee's credit that they have figured out how to get the most our of Henry.. The Cowboys have gone the opposite direction with Zeke.. When he came into the league the offense was setup to maximize his talents for the most part. They way we use him now almost guarantees we WON'T get the most out of him. But this Sunday do me a favor. Watch Zeke and every time he runs into the pile and then moves it 2-3 yards on sheer power when there is little or no hole there take a shot. Count the number of times you thought it was a no gain play and it's now 2nd and 6 because he refused to be stopped at the line. This line is not blocking worth a damn for Zeke.. I don't think any sane person would argue that. Then to add to it Moore repeatedly just calls for him to take the shotgun handoff and try to find a crease between the A gaps. And there generally hasn't been any. That as much as anything might explain the fumbles this year. Zeke has had so little running room that when he does get to the second level it FEELS like there's nobody around him and he relaxes. (I'm only half joking here..) How often do we dot the I and let Zeke attack the line of scrimmage downhill the way the Titans do with Henry?

 

[RonnieT24]

Here's an (I hope) interesting add on to my point about how the two are used. So far in 2020 Henry has taken 100 handoffs with the QB starting under center and only 23 from shotgun. By comparison Zeke has taken 59 handoffs with the QB under center and 42 from shotgun. So not only is Henry getting better blocking, he's also getting nearly double the number of attempts to attack downhill with a head of steam. The Titans figured out that Henry is not a shifty back and as such asking him to get to a hole from a standstill is just stupid. The Cowboys need to get to that same conclusion with Zeke.

Just for giggles I went and looked at 2018 .. the last time Zeke led the league in rushing.. That year he had 226 carries with the QB under center and 78 from shotgun.. Last year it was 214 to 87. So trending toward more shotgun less under center. And this year it's down even more. On pace for like 190/130 split. What boggles my mind is that I can sit on my couch and see ow obvious this is but a guy making a million bucks a year to see it can't. Zeke is a downhill runner whom we increasingly want to treat like he's Lesean McCoy. This thing will not improve until we stop that.

 

[aria]

Let me begin by saying that I loved Henry coming into the draft and would have been happy if we had drafted him instead of Zeke. They are obviously two very different backs who get it done in very different ways. It's to Tennessee's credit that they have figured out how to get the most our of Henry.. The Cowboys have gone the opposite direction with Zeke.. When he came into the league the offense was setup to maximize his talents for the most part. They way we use him now almost guarantees we WON'T get the most out of him. But this Sunday do me a favor. Watch Zeke and every time he runs into the pile and then moves it 2-3 yards on sheer power when there is little or no hole there take a shot. Count the number of times you thought it was a no gain play and it's now 2nd and 6 because he refused to be stopped at the line. This line is not blocking worth a damn for Zeke.. I don't think any sane person would argue that. Then to add to it Moore repeatedly just calls for him to take the shotgun handoff and try to find a crease between the A gaps. And there generally hasn't been any. That as much as anything might explain the fumbles this year. Zeke has had so little running room that when he does get to the second level it FEELS like there's nobody around him and he relaxes. (I'm only half joking here..) How often do we dot the I and let Zeke attack the line of scrimmage downhill the way the Titans do with Henry?

So now zeke gets the O line excuse? Funny, I never heard Barkley get that excuse and he was running behind an even worse O line his rookie year and was putting up similar numbers to zeke running behind one of the best O lines.

Even when zeke had room to run he rarely made people miss, as you said, he would run straight into the defenders instead of making a move and getting extra yards. Now you’re giving him credit for getting 2 yards when he doesn’t have room?

RB’s that demand to be paid the highest for that position should create plays on their own and not be so reliant on the O line. Barkley did it, Sanders did it, McCaffrey did it...if zeke needs a top 5-10 O line to get yards than we should have never paid him, most RB’s in the league would have the same or more success than zeke if they had the same O line he’s had.

The O line has masked his deficiencies for the past 4 years and now once he actually needs to be the player a lot of you think he is, or he thinks he is, he isn’t because he has to have a great O line. When myself, Quincy and others were posting stats that showed how average he was in most individual categories such as short yard situations, broken tackles, elusiveness, etc it came as no surprise that without a great O line he would be exposed for the chump he is.

It sounds like you’re still in denial.

 

[OmerV]

.......Zeke making $90 million, Henry basically half of that with his new contract: Notice Fumble stat in just 5 games.

Of course Zeke was paid because if his history, not on hindsight. He definitely had a better start to his career than Henry did. But if a decision had to be made to day I think it's pretty clear Henry is looking better.

 

[RonnieT24]

Lol, nice non original play on the jealousy angle.

So the people that are critical of other players making money are all jealous due to what the players do for a living and how much they make, is that right?

Not all of them but a helluva lot of them yes. Look at the number of times "he got his money and now..." gets brought up. If you only care about performance why does his salary matter? Jerry aint passin the hat askin me to help pay the salaries so aside from the impact on the salary cap I could care less what these guys make.

 

[aria]

Of course Zeke was paid because if his history, not on hindsight. He definitely had a better start to his career than Henry did. But if a decision had to be made to day I think it's pretty clear Henry is looking better.

The only reason zeke had a better start was because of everyone’s boy, Jason Garrett. Henry never had the opportunity due to Murray and coaching, it wasn’t because anything he did wrong or because he wasn’t capable.

 

[OmerV]

The only reason zeke had a better start was because of everyone’s boy, Jason Garrett. Henry never had the opportunity due to Murray and coaching, it wasn’t because anything he did wrong or because he wasn’t capable.

You had a problem with Jason using Zeke? I've seen a lot of criticism of Garrett, and I've agreed with a lot of it, but using Zeke in the early part of his career is not one I recall coming across. For the production Zeke had early in his career it wouldn't have made sense to not use him.

As for Henry, sure there may have been other circumstances. I wasn't suggesting otherwise. But at the time all anyone could do was speculate on that. Now there is tangible evidence to judge from.

 

[RonnieT24]

Of course Zeke was paid because if his history, not on hindsight. He definitely had a better start to his career than Henry did. But if a decision had to be made to day I think it's pretty clear Henry is looking better.

It might surprise people to know that Henry is like a year and a half older than Zeke. At the time the respective contracts were written Henry had accomplished about half what Zeke had so getting about half the money seemed about right. Nobody could have predicted that Zeke would literally be running behind what amounts to 4 rookies and Connor Williams at any point this season. I also think that we could get more out of Zeke if we simply used him differently .. see my posts above. But if we keep running an offense that's better suited for Tony Pollard.. we may as well start Tony Pollard.. because we're wasting Zeke in it.

 

[mattjames2010]

The only reason zeke had a better start was because of everyone’s boy, Jason Garrett. Henry never had the opportunity due to Murray and coaching, it wasn’t because anything he did wrong or because he wasn’t capable.

He was capable, but Henry himself said he was doing some things wrong initially and talks about him being traded or lessening work load and talking to Eddie George woke him up.

But yeah, anyone who watches TEN and DAL games should know, by a simple eye test, Henry is just the better back at this point. It's fan denial.

 

[mattjames2010]

It might surprise people to know that Henry is like a year and a half older than Zeke. At the time the respective contracts were written Henry had accomplished about half what Zeke had so getting about half the money seemed about right. Nobody could have predicted that Zeke would literally be running behind what amounts to 4 rookies and Connor Williams at any point this season. I also think that we could get more out of Zeke if we simply used him differently .. see my posts above. But if we keep running an offense that's better suited for Tony Pollard.. we may as well start Tony Pollard.. because we're wasting Zeke in it.

....there is more to Zeke's problems than 4 rookies, and his decline started before this season, especially with getting to the second level. Zeke himself has criticized his vision and decision making. Last year against the Jets, for example.

Not entirely sure what age here has to do with anything when they both came into the league at the same time. But okay?

 

[RonnieT24]

....there is more to Zeke's problems than 4 rookies, and his decline started before this season, especially with getting to the second level. Zeke himself has criticized his vision and decision making. Last year against the Jets, for example.

Not entirely sure what age here has to do with anything when they both came into the league at the same time. But okay?

I'm sorry.. I was partly responding to the person who stated that Henry would have a longer career. I'm not so sure about that given his age. Most running backs are in their absolute prime between age 25-30. That's when they are the best combination of strength speed and football IQ. The dropoff is pretty precipitous after 30, Emmitt a couple of others notwithstanding. I guess my point is that Henry is actually further into his prime than Zeke is. Zeke is still developing physically having just turned 25 this summer. The fact that he's willing to criticize and examine his own game and shortcomings is a plus to me. If you can see it you usually can fix it.. or at least work like hell to make it better.

 

[mattjames2010]

I'm sorry.. I was partly responding to the person who stated that Henry would have a longer career. I'm not so sure about that given his age. Most running backs are in their absolute prime between age 25-30. That's when they are the best combination of strength speed and football IQ. The dropoff is pretty precipitous after 30, Emmitt a couple of others notwithstanding. I guess my point is that Henry is actually further into his prime than Zeke is. Zeke is still developing physically having just turned 25 this summer. The fact that he's willing to criticize and examine his own game and shortcomings is a plus to me. If you can see it you usually can fix it.. or at least work like hell to make it better.

A year difference really isn't much to take into consideration. And believe it or not, Zeke actually takes more punishment than Henry. Henry is actually deceptively elusive, while Zeke is looking to punish players.

I think with Zeke, he has actually already shown some wear and tear in the speed category, while Henry looks to still have his speed.

 

[RonnieT24]

A year difference really isn't much to take into consideration. And believe it or not, Zeke actually takes more punishment than Henry. Henry is actually deceptively elusive, while Zeke is looking to punish players.

I think with Zeke, he has actually already shown some wear and tear in the speed category, while Henry looks to still have his speed.

I guess it's possible.. but his carries are way down the last two seasons over what they had been. Still I remember when we did get him into space on the screen against the Rams he hit the accelerator and was on the defenders before they knew he was there. Then with one simple cut he was able to waltz into the end zone. I don't he was ever as fast on the top end as Henry.. but he was quicker to accelerate and at least as hard to tackle. Witness their broken tackle rates being nearly identical this year. And I guarantee you that it's easier to break tackles when you are taking handoffs from 7 yards deep in the I or the one back set than it is taking shotgun handoffs and really having no momentum as you hit the line. Also a back built like Zeke doesn't have to be particularly elusive. If he attacks a defender at the appropriate angle that defender has next to zero chance of tackling him even if he gets a hand or two on him. Frankly I would argue that 10 broken tackles for Zeke is probably low. But maybe they only count it if the defender gets both arms and/or a shoulder on him? Cause Zeke runs through a half dozen tacklers every game.