The case for going for Lawrence

[CouchCoach]

Ronnie, not about getting to the SB for me, it's about having a better contender. There are a lot of reasons why teams make it to the SB.

And the fact is that every QB needs that team around him to get there. Manning and Brees needed their D's to step up or they don't get a ring. CHI, BAL and TB needed their QB's not to make mistakes to get their rings.\

And QB the Cowboys can get is going to need a team built around him. Hell, all of these 5 blue chip QB's have good, if not great, teams built around them.

This thread isn't about overcoming Prescott; it's about overcoming management. The better the QB, the better the odds.

 

[CouchCoach]

That's what I've been debating. All of a sudden, NOW they will be able to build a defense within the rookie contract span? That's not a smart move and then suggesting that simply putting all of your eggs in the 1st pick basket. Some fans just have unrealistic standards. Prescott is good enough to build a team around and it's possible if you sign him, it all comes down to talent.

That's the problem, it has come down to talent and they don't have enough but no assurance they get better at that with another trigger man.

The idea is 38M to a top pick over 4 years or that much for 1 year to Prescott. The theory is that allows them to better acquire better talent. What shoots that theory to hell is that they had the best 4 year QB deal since FA and they failed to do that. What is there to lead us to believe they will do that now?

 

[RonnieT24]

That's what I've been debating. All of a sudden, NOW they will be able to build a defense within the rookie contract span? That's not a smart move and then suggesting that simply putting all of your eggs in the 1st pick basket. Some fans just have unrealistic standards. Prescott is good enough to build a team around and it's possible if you sign him, it all comes down to talent.

Exactly.. if looked at objectively before he was hurt this year he was playing at a higher level than more than half the Super Bowl winning QBs since 2000. He was certainly playing better than Dilfer, early Brady, Johnson, Ruthlessraper both times, Flacco, Eli both times, Peyton with the Broncos, Foles and certainly Brady in his last Super Bowl. Why those guys don't have it held against them that they "needed a good team around them to win" while Dak needs to be dumped if he can't drag this rag tag bunch to the Super Bowl baffles me.

 

[Diehardblues]

Last time I checked Jones has THREE RINGS. That's three more than you.
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Great .. so fans should just stand back and cheer . Go right ahead. No thanks. Not this era.

 

[IrishAnto]

First off, let me say that I like Dak Prescott, I think he is a very good, not great, QB, and even the Dakaters have to notice the team with and without him which is exactly my point. The team needs someone better at that position unless you believe this team's management is capable of doing something they haven't done in decades, build a team around a QB.

They haven't done it with Prescott as well as his predecessor and even admitted that, failed to build around Romo. The fact that they lucked into both of these QB's should also be considered.

There are two questions regarding Trevor Lawrence, three if you consider why he doesn't become an English actor with that name. But the main two are is he better than what the Cowboys have now and what will it take to get him away from the two teams, JAX and NYJ, that have him in their sights?

Now, we must also consider the considerable team that Swinney has built around Lawrence, just as he did Watson. That must be taken into account when considering Fields as well.

But for the sake of argument and this thread, Lawrence is a better QB now than Prescott has developed into and he has nothing but upside. He is the first QB since P. Manning to deliver on being the most highly recruited QB in his class. If you don't agree with this, then this thread doesn't make sense to you but I have watched a lot of Lawrence play the position and consider him the real deal.

The second question is a tough one because if the Cowboys do not end up with the 1st pick, trading up for it will be very expensive in draft capital. If that can even be done. JAX ends up with that and they'd have a hard time passing on Lawrence since he's played in the neighborhood and if they're in that position, we'll see the same response as we saw from the CIN fans when the season became all about Burrow.

OK, you can let me have it now but I just don't think Prescott is good enough to lift this team beyond a mid level team. They ranked #1 in offense and we're 8-8 and what did they look like this season with Prescott at the helm? Is it a risk? Absolutely, but isn't giving Prescott a 4 or 5 X 35-40M a year even a bigger risk when you consider who the team builders are?

This is not about Dak Prescott, I think there are teams he could take to the Big Dance. This is about trying to overcome what's been holding this team back for two and half decades, management.

And if you want to consider something else, this HC had one of the best QB's in the history of the NFL and the most accurate one I have ever seen and he could only get one ring and ended up canned and that team doing better without him.

McC has this rep as a QB guru but who wouldn't with those QB's? The better the QB, the better the guru.

All comes down to one simple question. Do you want more of the same or do you want to take a chance? This is about change but what needs to be changed, management, will not so what's the next best thing?

Even the best QBs need a competent FO to build a team around him.
That’s where we’re really lacking.

 

[Diehardblues]

I see the ownership shouldn't have anyone speak for them it just a rip the ownership forum. So if a user disagree with your GM methods we can't say so because this forum is just for those that have your same opinions. You're starting to act like one of the political parties.
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Follow status quo all you want . It’s not working this era. And why results matter.

 

[CouchCoach]

Even the best QBs need a competent FO to build a team around him.
That’s where we’re really lacking.

Yep, that's the reason for this thread. And I am not saying one of these rooks is a better QB because that has yet to be seen but a better QB gives the team a better chance.

I happen to think on the right team, Prescott can get it done and get a ring. On the other side of that, I am not sure this franchise would get one with Brees, Brady, Mahomes or Rodgers.

The only thing we know in Booger's follow the ball game plan is he wants plenty of flash and that unto itself isn't bad as every owner wants butts in seats but they also realize the need to reward their fans with something besides eye candy.

Irish, every wacky idea I have is to one purpose, overcome the tools in the management shed of the Cowboys.

 

[G2]

Exactly.. if looked at objectively before he was hurt this year he was playing at a higher level than more than half the Super Bowl winning QBs since 2000. He was certainly playing better than Dilfer, early Brady, Johnson, Ruthlessraper both times, Flacco, Eli both times, Peyton with the Broncos, Foles and certainly Brady in his last Super Bowl. Why those guys don't have it held against them that they "needed a good team around them to win" while Dak needs to be dumped if he can't drag this rag tag bunch to the Super Bowl baffles me.

The offense really took another step this season in my opinion. When Prescott started, it was ranked No. 1. Last season it was ranked around 6-8. The defense was ranked around 10. Imaging if our defense played at that level this season. Also, we had the worst special teams in the NFL. Imagine if we had what we have now?

 

[Diehardblues]

I know it's tough for you to have a comeback for that because it's true. Jones has three rings and you have zero.
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That pretty well disqualifies any fans, media, coach , executive or players criticism if they don’t hold as many rings.

Why even have a fan forum or opinions if all we are going to do is cheer and tote the company line?

 

[Hadenough]

You can easily fix the defense in the draft if we pay Dak. If he puts up 24 a game and we can be a top 20 defense we win ball games.

Wasnt Dallas a 10th ranked defense last year and they still struggled to win games.

 

[Runwildboys]

I think that and some do not think he's worthy of that contract and just flat out don't want him.

There are some fans that don't like the fact he doesn't have that 1st round pedigree. He's like the blue collar guy marrying into the rich family, ewwwww, he's not up to our breeding and standard.

There is no assurance that if they let him walk and draft one of these rooks that they will get good players with the money. They've had the same money as everyone else, and a lot better at QB for 4 years, what was their excuse then?

Lower draft picks?

 

[IrishAnto]

Yep, that's the reason for this thread. And I am not saying one of these rooks is a better QB because that has yet to be seen but a better QB gives the team a better chance.

I happen to think on the right team, Prescott can get it done and get a ring. On the other side of that, I am not sure this franchise would get one with Brees, Brady, Mahomes or Rodgers.

The only thing we know in Booger's follow the ball game plan is he wants plenty of flash and that unto itself isn't bad as every owner wants butts in seats but they also realize the need to reward their fans with something besides eye candy.

Irish, every wacky idea I have is to one purpose, overcome the tools in the management shed of the Cowboys.

My main problem is the likely cost to get Lawrence.
We won’t have the first overall pick and the Jets or whoever will want a Kings ransom for the pick.
That could handicap the team and ruin Lawrence’s development as he’d have to carry the team sooner than you’d like.

 

[RonnieT24]

Ronnie, not about getting to the SB for me, it's about having a better contender. There are a lot of reasons why teams make it to the SB.

And the fact is that every QB needs that team around him to get there. Manning and Brees needed their D's to step up or they don't get a ring. CHI, BAL and TB needed their QB's not to make mistakes to get their rings.\

And QB the Cowboys can get is going to need a team built around him. Hell, all of these 5 blue chip QB's have good, if not great, teams built around them.

This thread isn't about overcoming Prescott; it's about overcoming management. The better the QB, the better the odds.

First there is no guarantee that any QB you draft will be better.. Some fans may like they way he looks better.. or like his throwing motion better or his hair or hell let's call it what it is.. they will like his genealogy better. But there is ZERO guarantee it translates to the field. It's the toughest position in sports to transition from college to pro. We've seen guys come in and have decent success earlier now if the coaching staffs are creative enough and unstubborn enough to tailor their offense around what they saw the kid do well in college. But that only gets you so far. Every game you play is another page in the book on you in the NFL. If you are not constantly improving and evolving you hit a ceiling and teams figure you out. Lots of guys have come into the NFL far ahead of Dak as passers.. mostly because he was not asked to be a pure passer in college and they were. I can run you down a pretty good list of those guys and I suspect we would agree he has passed most of them.. AS A PASSER. Not just by the all powerful "eye test" but also looking at the numbers. Dak's passing numbers say he's better than a bunch of the more heralded guys. And as we watch him with a critical eye we can see that he still has things on which he can improve.. Having watched his progression since 2016 there is no reason to believe he won't.. But even if he stays exactly where he is as a passer, he is GOING to get smarter and more experienced as he plays. So his ability to manage and control the game is going to grow and thus he will become a better QB. He is just entering his prime physically but his mental development will continue until the day he retires. Right now he represents a strong bet to deliver high level QB play for at least another 10 years.. A draftee is almost certainly going to be a step backwards from where Dak is now with no assurance that he ever gets to that point. And let's say in 2-3 years he does.. or even exceeds where Dak was today. How do we know Dak won't have continued to improve and be that much better than the kid still? And how do we know we will have built a better team around that kid? Where is the evidence we can do that?

 

[Diehardblues]

And that's the most empty argument on here.

If his argument is their 3 Rings silences all criticism this forum , radio, newspaper, tv and all social media should cease all criticism unless they have 3 Rings. Lol

These Homers can’t handle critical thinking and or any opinions that dispute theirs. Where have we heard this before. Ha

 

[cern]

Sign dak. Draft defense. Tomes notwithstanding, brevity is good.

 

[Diehardblues]

First there is no guarantee that any QB you draft will be better.. Some fans may like they way he looks better.. or like his throwing motion better or his hair or hell let's call it what it is.. they will like his genealogy better. But there is ZERO guarantee it translates to the field. It's the toughest position in sports to transition from college to pro. We've seen guys come in and have decent success earlier now if the coaching staffs are creative enough and unstubborn enough to tailor their offense around what they saw the kid do well in college. But that only gets you so far. Every game you play is another page in the book on you in the NFL. If you are not constantly improving and evolving you hit a ceiling and teams figure you out. Lots of guys have come into the NFL far ahead of Dak as passers.. mostly because he was not asked to be a pure passer in college and they were. I can run you down a pretty good list of those guys and I suspect we would agree he has passed most of them.. AS A PASSER. Not just by the all powerful "eye test" but also looking at the numbers. Dak's passing numbers say he's better than a bunch of the more heralded guys. And as we watch him with a critical eye we can see that he still has things on which he can improve.. Having watched his progression since 2016 there is no reason to believe he won't.. But even if he stays exactly where he is as a passer, he is GOING to get smarter and more experienced as he plays. So his ability to manage and control the game is going to grow and thus he will become a better QB. He is just entering his prime physically but his mental development will continue until the day he retires. Right now he represents a strong bet to deliver high level QB play for at least another 10 years.. A draftee is almost certainly going to be a step backwards from where Dak is now with no assurance that he ever gets to that point. And let's say in 2-3 years he does.. or even exceeds where Dak was today. How do we know Dak won't have continued to improve and be that much better than the kid still? And how do we know we will have built a better team around that kid? Where is the evidence we can do that?

You’re right. There is no evidence. Except that we are seeing freakish talented QB’s elevate their teams to higher aspirations that we’ve been reaching.

All we have to look at is would a Mahomes elevate this team more? QB like that don’t come around very often. And Trevor appears to be another home run.

Yes , Dak obviously provides the Cowboys a steady contender. And with a strong front office and coaching staff might get it done. But the basis of this thread is we don’t have faith in them getting it done. And a Mahomes might not be enough either but we’d like to see. We don’t feel like we have that much to lose. I certainly can see why others would disagree. It’s not a slam on Dak but on our ownership.

 

[Diehardblues]

Ronnie, not about getting to the SB for me, it's about having a better contender. There are a lot of reasons why teams make it to the SB.

And the fact is that every QB needs that team around him to get there. Manning and Brees needed their D's to step up or they don't get a ring. CHI, BAL and TB needed their QB's not to make mistakes to get their rings.\

And QB the Cowboys can get is going to need a team built around him. Hell, all of these 5 blue chip QB's have good, if not great, teams built around them.

This thread isn't about overcoming Prescott; it's about overcoming management. The better the QB, the better the odds.

Well said Coach.

This is about our dysfunctional organization not Dak.

If y’all want to see Dak go to a Super Bowl should let him go to a team which has the ability to build a better team around him. And better coaching and front office.

 

[Diehardblues]

My main problem is the likely cost to get Lawrence.
We won’t have the first overall pick and the Jets or whoever will want a Kings ransom for the pick.
That could handicap the team and ruin Lawrence’s development as he’d have to carry the team sooner than you’d like.

Yea, it’s very unlikely we will have an opportunity to get Trevor.

But that’s part of what we do in this forum is speculate and discuss as such.

 

[Diehardblues]

Wasnt Dallas a 10th ranked defense last year and they still struggled to win games.

12 th ranked according to NFL stats.

In our 8 losses we averaged about 17 points a game. In 3 of those losses didn’t even score a TD.

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/defense/passing/2019/reg/all

 

[TheRomoSexual]

I think the point is that the QB doesn’t make a difference in the outcomes of games and he wants to be paid like he is.

That’s a recipe to remain just about where we are now as a team.

It’s a team sport right? Tell that to Dak and his agent who think it’s no big deal if he gets all the money.

If the defense played for Dak like they did last game, we would have crushed opponents. Period.