What is wrong with tanking?

kskboys

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Jimmy Johnson disagrees with all the tanking talk.....

“People are wanting to compare them and tanking to what we did the first year in Dallas,’’ said Johnson, who went on to coach the Dolphins after winning two Super Bowls coaching the Cowboys. “That’s completely wrong.”

“First of all, Tom Landry was a great coach who had three losing seasons before I got there,’’ Johnson said of his 1989 entrance to Dallas. "They were 3-13 the year before I got here. We weren’t tanking my first year. We were just bad. We were old and slow.

“There wasn’t a lot of talent there. I made a ton of trades — 51 in five years. But the only player I traded that first year of any value was Herschel [Walker]. I kept Ken Norton, a rookie. I kept a young Michael Irvin. I traded our starting quarterback, Steve Pelluer, to Kansas City [for third- and fourth-round picks].

“The key is not getting draft picks,’’ Johnson said. “The key is picking the right players. There’s been plenty of teams with a bunch of draft picks. The Rams, when they traded Eric Dickerson, made a similar trade to what I had with Herschel. Didn’t do a thing with it. I hate to say this but two of their first-round picks were [former University of Miami players] Bill Hawkins and Cleveland Gary.”

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports...0190919-dop6objxpncfrdlvizz2ucqwky-story.html
Of course. That's obvious though. If a team doesn't use its resources well, it will not succeed no matter what. However, that's not what this is about. The closer you pick toward the front, the better players will be available. Now, if a team uses those resources poorly, sounds as if they need better mgmt.
 

kskboys

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Jerry ruins his own credibility by way of his own mindless miscues, imho. I've never seen the Cowboys being guilty of tanking. That includes J. Johnson's first Dallas team. That team was inept enough to lose on their own. Their talent level was that poor. Where were you back then?
Jimmy left better players on the bench in order to get the draft picks. That is pure and simple tanking to attain better resources. Very intelligent tanking, I might add.
 

kskboys

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It's not common knowledge. It's just your opinion. It being your opinion doesn't make it fact or common knowledge. Jimmy was actively churning the roster trying to find the right guys for him and his scheme. It wasn't all about draft picks.

I watched every game...missed 2 games since 89 and very few before that. We were bad in 89. New owner. New coach. Complete roster turnover. As a fan it absolutely didn't look like a tank job, though. The team was getting better throughout the year. It was more cohesive and a core began to develop. I can't imagine watching those games and thinking we were trying to loose.

I will never be a fan of intentionally losing football games. You might be wired to accept intentionally losing, but I'm not. And I don't want to be ok with it.
How in the world can fans continuously lie to themselves? If you didn't know what was happening, I'd guess that you were a very young child.

Not trying to lose, trying to get multiple 1st and 2nd round picks.

Define intentionally losing. Jimmy didn't play better players because he wanted the draft picks.
 

RoyalCowboy

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You don't want to establish and legitimize a losing culture. Tanking is just saying that it's okay to lose. Screw that. As an ex optimist, high school, college and Army athlete, I always want to win, regardless of circumstance. If I am injured, I still want to play. If I can't play, I still want my team to win. Drafting doesn't guarantee anything, nothing in life is guaranteed. Why forcibly lose to take a gamble for a high draft pick, screw that. You play to win the game. Doesn't matter if defeat is inevitable.
 

kskboys

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You don't want to establish and legitimize a losing culture. Tanking is just saying that it's okay to lose. Screw that. As an ex optimist, high school, college and Army athlete, I always want to win, regardless of circumstance. If I am injured, I still want to play. If I can't play, I still want my team to win. Drafting doesn't guarantee anything, nothing in life is guaranteed. Why forcibly lose to take a gamble for a high draft pick, screw that. You play to win the game. Doesn't matter if defeat is inevitable.
Tanking is not on the players. It's about trading away guys who are going to be gone anyway to get into super bowl contention.

Name one case in the NFL where tanking created a losing culture.
 

SteveTheCowboy

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I saw leadership in the huddle.
What does that mean? He did seem very confident to me. Not sure if it's the same thing.

Not trying to be argumentative. I think people have different opinions on "leadership". curious what yours is. Civilly.
 

SteveTheCowboy

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Tanking is not on the players. It's about trading away guys who are going to be gone anyway to get into super bowl contention.

Name one case in the NFL where tanking created a losing culture.

Name teams that tanked.
 

cern

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How in the world can fans continuously lie to themselves? If you didn't know what was happening, I'd guess that you were a very young child.

Not trying to lose, trying to get multiple 1st and 2nd round picks.

Define intentionally losing. Jimmy didn't play better players because he wanted the draft picks.
Jimmy's strategy with the walker trade was a brilliant ruse. He let vikes think he would play their scrubs when what he wanted was the draft picks. Had he played the vike rejects, we wouldn't be talking about what a great deal the trade was. It was his plan from the beginning. No way that's tanking. Jimmy was just smarter than everyone else.
 

cern

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Tanking is not on the players. It's about trading away guys who are going to be gone anyway to get into super bowl contention.

Name one case in the NFL where tanking created a losing culture.
If the players are going to be gone anyway, it's good business to get something for them. Seems this thread is about semantics. How one interprets the word tanking. It's fair to say both sides are correct as long as tanking is not considered quitting. Your point is well taken.
 

kskboys

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Name teams that tanked.
Many have, often w/o the desired outcome.

MIA is the latest, but they appear to be doing it right. Still to be seen.

Jimmy's Cowboys. 3 super bowls.

DET. Brought them Stafford. How did they tank? Refused to play a healthy Kitna, by far the best Qb on their roster. When they asked Kitna why he didn't play, he had no idea. Although Stafford isn't great, DET did get a decent QB and continuity.

Trading away good players for future considerations is the legal way to tank.
 

kskboys

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Jimmy's strategy with the walker trade was a brilliant ruse. He let vikes think he would play their scrubs when what he wanted was the draft picks. Had he played the vike rejects, we wouldn't be talking about what a great deal the trade was. It was his plan from the beginning. No way that's tanking. Jimmy was just smarter than everyone else.
Isn't tanking basically losing to win? That is to a T what Jimmy did.
 

GimmeTheBall!

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What does that mean? He did seem very confident to me. Not sure if it's the same thing.

Not trying to be argumentative. I think people have different opinions on "leadership". curious what yours is. Civilly.
He seemed in command, he seemed to have players listen to him as a leader, not a sub QB of the week.
But he'll win games just enough to knock us out of draft picks 1-3, so he's not my QB until 2021.
 

Bullflop

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Blimey!
Are we down to "I've been down with the Boys since 1952 so I am better than you"" carp?!?
Is that all you got, old boy?
Their inception, sire, has nothing to do with today or next year's draft.
I will send you a fruit basket. Helps the old digestive gullet, me boy.

I merely asked where you were when Jimmy Johnson was our coach. My reply was simply to assure you that I was a fan back then and aware of our circumstances -- it wasn't to say I'm better than you, by any means.

You answered my question where you were back then by simply saying: "Were you?" Incomplete sentence (and an ambiguous reply on your part.) If you were asking if I was even in existence back then the answer is yes. I was alive since long before the Cowboys were in their infancy. It wasn't intended to compare our status. Thanks anyway for the fruit basket. My digestion is fine. o_O
 
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Ranching

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I merely asked where you were when Jimmy Johnson was our coach. My reply was simply to assure you that I was a fan back then and aware of our circumstances -- it wasn't to say I'm better than you, by any means.

You answered my question where you were back then by simply saying: "Were you?" Incomplete sentence (and an ambiguous reply on your part.) If you were asking if I was even in existence back then the answer is yes, very much so. I was alive since long before the Cowboys were in their infancy. It wasn't intended to compare our status. Thanks anyway for the fruit basket. My digestion is fine. o_O
You are A LOT better than him.
 

Ranching

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Jimmy left better players on the bench in order to get the draft picks. That is pure and simple tanking to attain better resources. Very intelligent tanking, I might add.
I guess that's why he lost his last game 63-7 to Jacksonville. Karma.......what a way to go out.
 
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