Marinelli/Eberflus Defense too predictable

[lostar2009]

Maybe this hybrid scheme is the future. But how do we get the players for it? What kind of players?

 

[thunderpimp91]

I certainly don't believe in Nolan to run the D, but it will be hard to attract a proven coordinator with the current personnel.

Disagree here. You've got low expectations, high odds of the team spending significant draft capital on defense, Jerrys money, and an opportunity to play hero for the most marketable franchise in the sport.

 

[gimmesix]

Mike Nolan is trying to do that.

The problem is there is something incredibly wrong with our run fits.

Someone who still dives into All 22 may be able to tell you.. When the Cowboys games end you’d have to pay me to get me to watch them again.

So someone in the know could probably tell you better as to why Mike Nolan’s defense is terrible but just a quick analysis by me it looks like their run fits are horrible.

There is always huge gaps to run through for defenses and not only are there gaps you got a linebacker in Jaylon that may run himself out of the play.

I think if we get some DTs who can control the offensive line instead of being controlled by it, the fits will be better. If the linemen can double and then peel off to get to the linebackers, that makes it difficult for them to fill the gaps. We need to have DTs who can shed their man when that happens and get to the back in the backfield or at least disrupt the play so the linebackers have time to get off their blocks and fill.

Now, there are ways that Nolan could make up for the DTs not being able to regularly beat double teams, but it would create other problems with his scheme. So he's still counting on those DTs to be disruptive enough against 1-on-1 blocking. And that's what's happened on the plays where we've done well against the run.

I know that many want to just blame the linebackers, but they are trying to read and react and then get through offensive linemen to fill their gaps. They could certainly do a better job of it at times, but what they really need is some consistent muscle up front to make those offensive linemen hesitate to release so they can attack the gaps.

We could aggressively run blitz to make up for what we lack on the interior, but you leave your secondary exposed if you do that, and our secondary is not good enough for that.

 

[JayFord]

As Bad as Nolans defense has been and its been terrible at the very least this team gets turnovers as of recent which is something even in our playoff years we werent getting much of

If i were in charge would Nolan get another year? No....he’d get 4 games next season

this defense still cant defend the run at all and that was an issue before Nolan came but right now its even worse

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

People act like this Defense was something great before Nolan showed up. No, this defense has been garbage for sometime and they have continued to draft horribly on defense especially with regards to Linebackers and any lack of focus on the DT and Safety position. Recall that the last time the Dallas Jerry's made the playoffs they lost to the Rams by getting their rears handed to them when they had the ball run down their throats. What has changed other than the age of the garbage talent on Defense?

 

[CATCH17]

I think if we get some DTs who can control the offensive line instead of being controlled by it, the fits will be better. If the linemen can double and then peel off to get to the linebackers, that makes it difficult for them to fill the gaps. We need to have DTs who can shed their man when that happens and get to the back in the backfield or at least disrupt the play so the linebackers have time to get off their blocks and fill.

Now, there are ways that Nolan could make up for the DTs not being able to regularly beat double teams, but it would create other problems with his scheme. So he's still counting on those DTs to be disruptive enough against 1-on-1 blocking. And that's what's happened on the plays where we've done well against the run.

I know that many want to just blame the linebackers, but they are trying to read and react and then get through offensive linemen to fill their gaps. They could certainly do a better job of it at times, but what they really need is some consistent muscle up front to make those offensive linemen hesitate to release so they can attack the gaps.

We could aggressively run blitz to make up for what we lack on the interior, but you leave your secondary exposed if you do that, and our secondary is not good enough for that.

But look at the alignment and gaps..

Stopping the run is usually just playing good assignment football and effort.

You shouldn’t have to make huge investments to stop a run game at this level.

 

[quickccc]

My question is if Nolan isn't the guy, do you continue with a multiple scheme or not? I think it is a mistake not to

Likely MM will want to continue with a DC that features a hybrid scheme.

- The big key besides player personnel, is there has to be an in-between with the scheme, ..there has to be a middle ground,,
.. you don't want to depend upon a simple plain defense that depends so much on straight up, line up predictable scheme,
that becomes easier to counter scheme over time,.. but you don't want this Rob Ryan, Mike Nolan high complex scheme that
causes far confusion to your players - than it does to opponents.

- If there's anything that i think contributed to the 3 game streak- regardless of below winning teams and backup QBs - i think Sean Lee returning
and fiery inspiration, Nolan getting outta the damn coach booth and simplifying and peeling back the scheme; coaches giving Gregory
far more reps (a mere 13 snaps vs Raven is ridiculous) Wilson... and scheme fit Brown and Lewis

 

[blumayne38]

Mike Nolan is trying to do that.

The problem is there is something incredibly wrong with our run fits.

Someone who still dives into All 22 may be able to tell you.. When the Cowboys games end you’d have to pay me to get me to watch them again.

So someone in the know could probably tell you better as to why Mike Nolan’s defense is terrible but just a quick analysis by me it looks like their run fits are horrible.

There is always huge gaps to run through for defenses and not only are there gaps you got a linebacker in Jaylon that may run himself out of the play.

I feel like this run defense does a lot of unnecessary engaging....that’s fine if you’re a olineman but not if you’re a LB or DT. You should be read and react. This defense seems to be to into the “do you’re job” mindset instead of just going with the instinct and read and react philosophy. We will see if in the future we can work it out to be a little bit of both. Idk. Just my opinion.

 

[AbeBeta]

Michael Lombardi on his podcast has been making the point all season that the Rod Marinelli DEF is not good enough in the NFL anymore. He makes the point that Matt Eberflus DEF is way to predictable (based on Marinelli's) and has been saying this all season and it has been found out. He credits Sean McVay in replacing Wade Phillips with a hybrid DEF that is good at 3 phases and not predictable (33% Zone 33% man, 33% Zone dogs).

Don't be great at just one thing, it will be found out.

Describes Eberflus as a 'one pitch fast ball scheme'

We need a hybrid scheme in Dallas that is further developed in the off season.

Yeah, except Eberflus is really more from the Rob Ryan school as that's who he came up with primarily.

His Colts Ds have been good. Far better when the Colts have a decent QB. Go figure.

 

[nightrain]

Disagree here. You've got low expectations, high odds of the team spending significant draft capital on defense, Jerrys money, and an opportunity to play hero for the most marketable franchise in the sport.

You said it in two words. Jerry's money. Jerry's vision. Jerry's world. Lack of a coherent roster development plan will keep the best away. Sure, he will find someone to take the job, but that person won't be a proven commodity or a rising star in the league.

 

[cowboyed]

Whether it's a mistake or not, the point is you need a multiple DEF else you will be found out at some point, maybe in the regular season, maybe in the play-offs, but a good team will find you out, you need to adapt, you need to be different

It may not just be about needing to be different. Eventually a different scheme becomes imitated or common place. You need an adaptable scheme that players can readily perform in and effectively adjust against the opposition.

 

[MapleLeaf]

Mike Nolan is trying to do that.

The problem is there is something incredibly wrong with our run fits.

Someone who still dives into All 22 may be able to tell you.. When the Cowboys games end you’d have to pay me to get me to watch them again.

So someone in the know could probably tell you better as to why Mike Nolan’s defense is terrible but just a quick analysis by me it looks like their run fits are horrible.

There is always huge gaps to run through for defenses and not only are there gaps you got a linebacker in Jaylon that may run himself out of the play.

Ok, I don't want to categorized as a Nolan hater, but here is my take...

1. Nolan wants to pursue a hybrid scheme. With today's NFL and more and more college based schemes coming to the league this is a smart approach.
2. Nolan has not taken into account the abilities of his players. Now we know he hasn't had a proper offseason with the defensive side of the squad, but darn he knew COVID along with the rest of the world was coming on like a truck. He should have prepared for the lack of training time.
3. Lack of training time means don't introduce schemes that don't fit your players and more important their mental and physical abilities.
4. So onto lack of run fits. There are two issues here.
A. The DTs are not very stout so at times they are driven out of their lane assignments. Laymen's terms the line becomes a mess, and gaps start to materialize like holes in swiss cheese.
B. The LBs are taking unnecessary risks by attacking gaps early that are disappearing as DT's get moved out of one lane into another. Are the LBs doing this because the DTs aren't doing their job, or are they doing this because they are impatient. It's a bit of both.
5. So here's my biggest beef with Nolan. Why would you take risks with this defence that has not had time to learn the new hybrid scheme, and may not actually have both the mental and physical capacity to do the job your scheme is expecting? Figure out what they can do consistently and let them play not just to win, but help them play and not break down.

So what drives me batty is seeing a second down and short with Cover Zero concepts. If Wilson or a LB makes a wrong read there is no one behind to keep the ball in front of you. If there is a definitive play that defines this year's defence it was the Jackson TD. Missed assignment, player dropping down on a misdirection or misread, and opposing team has someone open for an easy TD. Once again Dallas players, not assigned to open receiver, trailing the play and pointing to one another who has their guy.

 

[CATCH17]

Ok, I don't want to categorized as a Nolan hater, but here is my take...

1. Nolan wants to pursue a hybrid scheme. With today's NFL and more and more college based schemes coming to the league this is a smart approach.
2. Nolan has not taken into account the abilities of his players. Now we know he hasn't had a proper offseason with the defensive side of the squad, but darn he knew COVID along with the rest of the world was coming on like a truck. He should have prepared for the lack of training time.
3. Lack of training time means don't introduce schemes that don't fit your players and more important their mental and physical abilities.
4. So onto lack of run fits. There are two issues here.
A. The DTs are not very stout so at times they are driven out of their lane assignments. Laymen's terms the line becomes a mess, and gaps start to materialize like holes in swiss cheese.
B. The LBs are taking unnecessary risks by attacking gaps early that are disappearing as DT's get moved out of one lane into another. Are the LBs doing this because the DTs aren't doing their job, or are they doing this because they are impatient. It's a bit of both.
5. So here's my biggest beef with Nolan. Why would you take risks with this defence that has not had time to learn the new hybrid scheme, and may not actually have both the mental and physical capacity to do the job your scheme is expecting? Figure out what they can do consistently and let them play not just to win, but help them play and not break down.

So what drives me batty is seeing a second down and short with Cover Zero concepts. If Wilson or a LB makes a wrong read there is no one behind to keep the ball in front of you. If there is a definitive play that defines this year's defence it was the Jackson TD. Missed assignment, player dropping down on a misdirection or misread, and opposing team has someone open for an easy TD. Once again Dallas players, not assigned to open receiver, trailing the play and pointing to one another who has their guy.

I remember we went to Denver one year with Romo and Nolan was calling their defense and he was disguising coverages and just throwing the kitchen sink at Romo.

I was like how on earth can a QB read these defenses.

Ive always been a fan of his so I was excited about the hire.

But after this season they have just looked so poorly coached and there is no excuse to be that bad against the run.

Keeping Nolan is a huge risk.

They should let McCarthy decide and McCarthy should know that his decision and how it turns out will heavily influence their decision on His future going forward.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Mike Nolan is trying to do that.

The problem is there is something incredibly wrong with our run fits.

Someone who still dives into All 22 may be able to tell you.. When the Cowboys games end you’d have to pay me to get me to watch them again.

So someone in the know could probably tell you better as to why Mike Nolan’s defense is terrible but just a quick analysis by me it looks like their run fits are horrible.

There is always huge gaps to run through for defenses and not only are there gaps you got a linebacker in Jaylon that may run himself out of the play.

Yeh the problem is the players suck and are mentally challenged. They miss gaps, don't set the edge, don't know their personnel responsibilities and run around blockers constantly in the run game. It is pretty frustrating to watch when I can watch tape and watch high school children perform these simple tasks.

 

[Gaede]

Keep the scheme, switch the coordinators.

We've been historically bad this year, even with three decent games in a row (which weren't exactly stellar either, despite the competition). There's no excuse for this team to have gone from 'middle of the pack' at defending the run to 3 300 yd games in a year. No excuse, especially considering the linebackers and DL didn't really change that much.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't like this Defensive Coaching Staff. Hybrid is just a term. There is nothing, at all, new in Football. Everything has been tried, everything has been done. Hybrid is just another way of saying Gimmick.

 

[Majic]

It may not just be about needing to be different. Eventually a different scheme becomes imitated or common place. You need an adaptable scheme that players can readily perform in and effectively adjust against the opposition.

Is that not what a hybrid scheme is?

 

[Sydla]

One of the issues here is that people try to make this an either/or situation......... either it's the players or Nolan. The defensive flaws are likely attributable to both, which is why I advocate a gutting of the defensive personnel and having a new DC having the input on player acquisition that Nolan will likely have this offseason if he stays.

 

[Majic]

One of the issues here is that people try to make this an either/or situation......... either it's the players or Nolan. The defensive flaws are likely attributable to both, which is why I advocate a gutting of the defensive personnel and having a new DC having the input on player acquisition that Nolan will likely have this offseason if he stays.

I would rather Nolan have that responsibility, he has worked with the players and knows their flaws, it should be up to him and McCarthy to decide who they want to bring in. I believe we ride this out.

 

[DuncanIso]

Likely MM will want to continue with a DC that features a hybrid scheme.

- The big key besides player personnel, is there has to be an in-between with the scheme, ..there has to be a middle ground,,
.. you don't want to depend upon a simple plain defense that depends so much on straight up, line up predictable scheme,
that becomes easier to counter scheme over time,.. but you don't want this Rob Ryan, Mike Nolan high complex scheme that
causes far confusion to your players - than it does to opponents.

- If there's anything that i think contributed to the 3 game streak- regardless of below winning teams and backup QBs - i think Sean Lee returning
and fiery inspiration, Nolan getting outta the damn coach booth and simplifying and peeling back the scheme; coaches giving Gregory
far more reps (a mere 13 snaps vs Raven is ridiculous) Wilson... and scheme fit Brown and Lewis

mike and Nolan are big buddies.

that’s how Nolan got the job.

Mike wants Nolan back next season.

insanity.