Lawrence - Not So Much

[CATCH17]

You say that actual NFL teams evaluate the players on talent and potential but then how do you then explain away all the busts that have been drafted? Didn't they evaluate the talent and potential?
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There is busts at every position all the time.

Drafting players at any position is difficult and you just take what the draft gives you.


QB's get reached for a lot which causes them to be more likely to bust. A 2nd round guy could go #1 because the NFL is so desperate for QBs.


This is a case of the best player in the draft actually being a QB.

Trevor Lawrence is the best prospect in this draft.

 

[CouchCoach]

Lawrence, Fields, Jones, Wilson, Lance and Trask all have the same thing in common. Don't surround them with the right talent and they'll be mediocre for any team. Get Murray Hopkins and Allen Diggs and look how much better they get. Give Allen a better D and he's a star.

Look at the talent assembled around those 6 QB's in college. Mac Jones had two top Heisman contenders along with him. Look at that team Burrows had last season. If you put Herbert on that LSU team, does he do the same thing?

If all it took was that guy, Brees, Rodgers and Wilson would have multiple rings. Take Hill, Kelce and Reid away from Mahomes and he's just a good QB.

The magic with QB's is putting them in the position to execute plays and not create them too much. That was Romo and Rivers problem because they both could have won rings.

The Cowboys do not need any of those 6 QB's, they need to build the team around what they do have as I have 0 reservations he's good enough to get it done. You put any QB, including Mahomes and Rodgers, on this type team, no ring.

 

[Motorola]

Winston, Newton, L Jackson, Mayfield and Manziel have won the heisman. And 3 of the 5 were the #1 qb taken in the draft.

Only Jackson won an mvp in the NFL. No sb wins among them

Cam Newton was NFL MVP for the 2015 season when the Panthers went 15-1 and made it to the Super Bowl.

 

[John813]

Cam Newton was NFL MVP for the 2015 season when the Panthers went 15-1 and made it to the Super Bowl.

You're right.

Wrote the post at first without Newton and he was a late throw in. Forgot to double check with him in it.
But no SB win part is still true as of now.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Yes.. He'll do it against NFL players..

It would be shocking if he busts. He's the prototype for a modern day QB.

Again all the teams that did their due diligence on all the players but turned out to be busts. I remember when one draft all the gurus were saying the top two QB's were the best pair to come out in a long time and they all argued which one would go 1st and which one would go 2nd. Well the QB that went 1st was Peyton Manning and QB that went 2nd was Ryan Leaf. You know Leaf a total bust. Listing to all the sporting world talking about Leaf he was a lock to be another great NFL QB.
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[gjkoeppen]

There is busts at every position all the time.

Drafting players at any position is difficult and you just take what the draft gives you.


QB's get reached for a lot which causes them to be more likely to bust. A 2nd round guy could go #1 because the NFL is so desperate for QBs.


This is a case of the best player in the draft actually being a QB.

Trevor Lawrence is the best prospect in this draft.

See post #85
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[Philmonroe]

* that's quite the "zero angle" approach to acquiring build upon talent, eh? Somewhat akin to a person having only fired a gun one time, to kill a rattlesnake , yet never pulled on the trigger ever again in their lifetime,,,

He is a one of those super Dak fans. You have to see everything OP post along those lens. This is a prop up Dak thread in disguise that's why you're lost on this ridiculous take of his.

 

[Direwolf63]

Actually no it doesn't but it's supposed to represent the best college player for the year so if a player isn't considered the best that year in college then why should anyone believe all proclamations made about another player on how super he will be in the NFL.
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How many Heiman's did Tom Brady win. Patrick Mahomes?

Drafting QB's is a crap shoot. I would take Lawrence and not look back

 

[CATCH17]

Again all the teams that did their due diligence on all the players but turned out to be busts. I remember when one draft all the gurus were saying the top two QB's were the best pair to come out in a long time and they all argued which one would go 1st and which one would go 2nd. Well the QB that went 1st was Peyton Manning and QB that went 2nd was Ryan Leaf. You know Leaf a total bust. Listing to all the sporting world talking about Leaf he was a lock to be another great NFL QB.
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That one time something happened logic.

Don't draft scared.


You draft scared you'll talk yourself out of drafting Mahomes when you have Alex Smith.

Don't pass on a guy because of Ryan Leaf.

Don't stop drafting corners because of Morris Claiborne.

Don't stop drafting DE's because of Taco Charlton.

There will be busts at every position.

QB's are becoming less and less risky because the spread offense is taking over the NFL.

Thats why guys like Baker Mayfield and Jared Goff who aren't very good can still win games.

College offenses are coming to the NFL. You got Texas Tech's coach in the NFL now.

Lamar Jackson barely reads a defense before he takes off running and won a league MVP.

The NFL doesn't want you playing defense. The rules are against it. So it's just easier for offensive players more than ever and it's been that way for about 5 years now.

 

[CouchCoach]

You say that actual NFL teams evaluate the players on talent and potential but then how do you then explain away all the busts that have been drafted? Didn't they evaluate the talent and potential?
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First off, I think we give these people too much credit for being a great deal smarter that they are just because they do what they do.

The other mistake they make and it's not just the Cowboys, they focus on the player too much and not the team he was on. The Cowboys weren't the only team to have Claiborne up that high but they failed to take a hard look at all around him. Same with Spears, the DL he was on at LSU was better then the one he was drafted to be on with the Cowboys.

They never know which players are really the stand outs. Auburn and Clemson have had DL's that were considered can't miss and half those guys are disappointments. They were the definition of football synergy.

I think CB's are the highest risk and Belichick would agree with all his misses. How can they know if a CB is going to be anything close to what he was in college when he's facing QB's and WR's every week better than what they faced most of the season in college. That same challenge, college open v NFL open, that plagues many QB's and WR's when they come into the NFL affects the CB's.

I was really surprised at how well Burrow and Herbert played in their rookie seasons. Burrow threw to textbook college open receivers in his senior season and that was really his only shining season. Now, we've got Mac Jones in that same situation.

 

[Motorola]

As if the Heisman means anything in regard to the NFL.

QB Heisman Trophy winners over the last two decades (since 2000)
Chris Weinke
Jason White
Matt Leinart
Troy Smith
Tim Tebow
Sam Bradford
Robert Griffin III
Johnny Manziel
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota

 

[CouchCoach]

How many Heiman's did Tom Brady win. Patrick Mahomes?

Drafting QB's is a crap shoot. I would take Lawrence and not look back

Yep, if I were taking one, an athletic 6'6" QB is a nice player to have.

Reid took a chance on Mahomes because those wide open Tech QB's had failed at the next level. They do their due diligence and end up with a Josh Allen or a Josh Rosen. I thought Mayfield was a terrible 1st pick and Murray as high risk as you can get with his size.

 

[phildadon86]

well duh, its better than Dak's. seriously a guy wins a championship, plays in another & has been in the CFP every year of his career and that's where you want to compare him to Dak? that makes no sense.

please say you were posting impaired.

Dak took a garbage program to a number 1 rating in college.

TL couldnt beat anyone with a great roster, and a legend of a college coach.

All I am pointing out. Is that football is a TEAM sport no matter who the QB is.

 

[Motorola]

plus the guy lost out on the Heisman to a CB

A CB that went to on to play 18 seasons in the NFL, and has just been selected as a finalist for the Pro Football of Fame class of 2021.

 

[gjkoeppen]

How many Heiman's did Tom Brady win. Patrick Mahomes?

Drafting QB's is a crap shoot. I would take Lawrence and not look back

I'm getting tired of repeating this. The Heisman is not the end all be all gauge on how a player does in the NFL. It is the highest award for college football and with all the talk and proclamations that people have made on Lawrence one would think he then had a total and complete lock on winning it, buy he didn't. Also see comment #85.
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[Mobinvans]

Heisman doesn’t mean anything

 

[Mobinvans]

LAWRENCE is no HERBERT. He is more Blaine Gabbert. Not trying to throw shade on the kid, but he seems to fold in big games..and his mechanics are not very good. MAYBE I am dead wrong. He is def a good QB prospect, but no way is he top 5 material. Bottom of round 1, MAYBE. Zach Wilson is a better prospect. The tape doesnt lie. The kid looks pro ready.

Your crazy man

Lawrence will be 1st pick in the draft

 

[Motorola]

So what corner back were you referring to?
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Charles Woodson, CB for Michigan back then.

 

[jjktkk]

With all the talk earlier in the season that the Cowboys should tank to possibly get a crack at Lawrence and all the talk about Lawrence going to be the next great QB, yet with so many people trying to make all their proclamations about Lawrence you would think he would have been an automatic lock for and gotten college football biggest award, the Heisman Trophy. But he didn't. As always, I'll wait and see what a player does in the NFL before making any proclamations.

Geez, who to believe, OP or Sports Iliustrated? Decisions, decisions...

 

[gjkoeppen]

That one time something happened logic.

Don't draft scared.


You draft scared you'll talk yourself out of drafting Mahomes when you have Alex Smith.

Don't pass on a guy because of Ryan Leaf.

Don't stop drafting corners because of Morris Claiborne.

Don't stop drafting DE's because of Taco Charlton.

There will be busts at every position.

QB's are becoming less and less risky because the spread offense is taking over the NFL.

Thats why guys like Baker Mayfield and Jared Goff who aren't very good can still win games.

College offenses are coming to the NFL. You got Texas Tech's coach in the NFL now.

Lamar Jackson barely reads a defense before he takes off running and won a league MVP.

The NFL doesn't want you playing defense. The rules are against it. So it's just easier for offensive players more than ever and it's been that way for about 5 years now.

I don't know how many times I have to say that there can be busts in any round with any position. If any team actually thought a player was going to be a bust they wouldn't draft them. Many of those busts were highly praised coming out of college. Now think about the NFL teams that have tried the run and gun college type offense and still had losing records. Oh BTW there hasn't been a winning Super Bowl team in 20 years or longer that didn't have a top 10 ranked defense. Even the chiefs in 2019 had the 10th ranked defense.
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