Twitter: KC: Dak must reach playoffs consistently if he's paid premium QB money

CouchCoach

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To me, this is a simple two part question. One, do you think Prescott is good enough with the right team around him? Two, do you think this FO can build that team?

Probably a good idea to ask that second question first because if they can't, does it really matter who the QB is? Brees, Rodgers and Wilson only have one ring and those first two are HOF locks.

The other thing to consider is the NFC East isn't QB rich. None of the teams have a championship caliber QB.
 

RonnieT24

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Is anyone else skeptical that Dak will improve into his 30s?

Like.. He’s mobile but not the most mobile.. When that little bit of mobility he has is gone do you think his passing ability is going to be enough?

He just snapped an ankle too.. I’d bet he 100% recovers but who knows.

You want me to run down the list of QBs who had their best seasons in their 30's.. it might take a while because it's a really long list.. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers hell even Romo all had their best seasons north of 30. Ryan Tannehill is a younger example. Anybody wanna argue that Russell Wilson is playing his best ball in his 30's? A lot of times QBs don't reach their full potential as passers UNTIL the crutch of being young and athletic is gone. Randall Cunningham and Steve Young come to mind as super athletic QBs who didn't really take off as passers until they got a little older and less inclined to take off. Some of it is just getting smarter and faster at reading defenses.. some of it is not wanting to take the punishment.. but there is zero denying that good QBs get better in their 30's. So there is little reason to believe Dak won't ..
 

RonnieT24

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To me, this is a simple two part question. One, do you think Prescott is good enough with the right team around him? Two, do you think this FO can build that team?

Probably a good idea to ask that second question first because if they can't, does it really matter who the QB is? Brees, Rodgers and Wilson only have one ring and those first two are HOF locks.

The other thing to consider is the NFC East isn't QB rich. None of the teams have a championship caliber QB.

Here's a better question: do you think Peyton Manning was better in 2015 than Dak is right now? Was Russell Wilson in 2013? Hell was Eli Manning in 2011 or 2007? Was Foles in 2017? Brady in 2018? I think most observers would say a resounding no.. But their teams were better.. a LOT better.. I would contend that present day Dak wins a title on any of those teams.. because nearly all of them asked the QB to manage the game, don't commit a bunch of turnovers and make a throw or two when called upon.. I don't know how anyone can argue with a straight face that they don't believe Dak can do what those guys did in those situations.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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That’s a very reasonable solution. I’m just not as sold the 3-4 million a year makes that much difference over the life of his contract. I’m not even sold Dak is worth 35. But if you think he is, then he’s prob with 38 or 39.

But I’d have no problem with moving on. Only difference is I’d look to make more trades for more picks to move up in draft for that QB and or additional picks in 1st round.

My hunch is Jethro will cave in. It’s the comfortable move for him .

Well, again, I've explained this. In fact, I think I explained it twice again, earlier today in a post but here goes. I don't believe Dak is worth 35. I think that this is what Jerry has already offered and I think it's still on the table so that's where that number comes from. Let me just take that a step further and again, I've explain this point twice before today as well, a deal for 35 AAV already exceeds the cap percentage, based on the 13% total cap allotment to the QB. 35 represents about 20%, each mil you add to that just takes you more and more into the red. At some point, that's gonna cost you players that can contribute to the team. It just compounds the problem so I don't really see how anybody can look at this and say, well, you've already screwed up your cap by committing so much of your cap to the QB so why not just double down and screw it up even more? I mean, that's pretty much what you are doing there. I don't see the wisdom there.

I don't really want to get into the compensation on a trade because I feel like that's a thread all on its own. It will just detract from this discussion but yeah, lets get multiple picks. I would not try and move up in this draft because it would be way too expensive and we need multiple players on the Defensive side of the ball. The only way Dalton and hopefully a young QB is successful is if they come to a team that is really solid to begin with. Bringing in good young talent accomplishes that for you. But again, I see a young Trey Lance there at 10 and there is nothing not to love about that kid if you are a fan of Dak Prescott. If you get real lucky, maybe Wilson slides and then I think you hit the jackpot. That kid can do it all IMO. You put him behind a good line, a decent running game, give him targets to throw at and a Defense that can be, at least respectable, and I think that kid can give you a chance to win some games. He's probably gone before our pick but still, that's kinda how I see it.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Ok, well thanks for explaining yet again, I guess, for those of us who don't pay attention.

Although, squabbling over $5 million doesn't seem like it going to make the big difference in your available cap between "cap is intact" and financial suicide.

Perhaps you can thank me by explaining why you wouldn't just save yourself 20 mil by just taking a QB in the first round and allowing Dak to work out a deal with another team. If I were his agent, I'd be on the phone with the Dolphins right now, trying to work out a trade with the Cowboys for Dak. But perhaps that's too, I don't know, squabblesome?

I don't think you are willing to accept the possibility that we don't have 35 to give Dak right now. If you don't have it, then yeah, 5 million more is a really big deal. Did you ever not have money Denim? I mean, really not any money? When I was a kid, I would hear people say things like, it's only 5 bucks, it's only 10 bucks, it's only 20.......... Yeah, I would think to myself. But I didn't have 5 or 10 or 20 so it might as well have been that couple of million you mention.
 

HungryLion

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Is anyone else skeptical that Dak will improve into his 30s?

Like.. He’s mobile but not the most mobile.. When that little bit of mobility he has is gone do you think his passing ability is going to be enough?

He just snapped an ankle too.. I’d bet he 100% recovers but who knows.


There is no guarantee he continues to get better.

But there are a lot of QB’s that continue to improve into their 30’s. They may lose some
Athleticism. But that reduction in athleticism is overcome by years and years of experience and running the same offensive system. Their processing speed and ability to read and anticipate tends to get better and better through the mid 30’s


We just saw Romo himself, his best year as a QB was his last full year as a starter, WITH a bad back.

So absolutely Dak can continue to improve. No guarantees of course.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I have little faith either direction we go. My greatest hope in this awful era of Jethro Football is 16 meaningful games each year. That’s how far the Bar has been lowered for me.

Well hell, that kinda spins things in a different hemisphere for me. I can't find it in me to kick you when you are down.

I guess I'll just say that there is hope and wish you a good luck Diehard.

:thumbup:
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I am not sure he is the answer but I do not trust them to find a better QB.

I also do not have confidence in this FO to build a defense or let a HC run the team. It's just not set up to do that.

I've already stated where I stand. I do not believe this team will make it back to the SB in my lifetime, the best I can hope for is to be an inconsistent contender. But I do not need them to even do that to stay a fan. I have accepted what it really is but that doesn't mean I can't join in complaining about it.

I support your right to complain Coach. But the least you could do is bring a decent whisky to the party if your gonna make me listen to it.

:thumbup:
 

ABQCOWBOY

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There is no guarantee he continues to get better.

But there are a lot of QB’s that continue to improve into their 30’s. They may lose some
Athleticism. But that reduction in athleticism is overcome by years and years of experience and running the same offensive system. Their processing speed and ability to read and anticipate tends to get better and better through the mid 30’s


We just saw Romo himself, his best year as a QB was his last full year as a starter, WITH a bad back.

So absolutely Dak can continue to improve. No guarantees of course.

This is true, I agree with this. Nice post Dak.
 

CowboyoWales

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Cowboys are not years away. This is a year to year league. Cowboys cap situation is fine.

Watson just had the best year of his career with......Watson ain't the problem. That crappy defense is.
33 touchdowns
7 picks
112.4 QB rating

EXACTLY, no point having Watson if the defense is, as you say, "crappy".....you just dont get the idea that teams win (not individuals).

We are years away, because we are reliant on the draft as we've insufficient CAP to improve via free agency (barely enough to get the same scraps as last year).
 

CowboyoWales

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essentially you are saying we are throwing away the next 3 years. given Dalton means we are a losing team. and then any QB drafted outside of Lawrence (even he is not a sure thing) is a big gamble or a project....

so in a few years, we come to the same point again....having to resign a QB and wash, rinse repeat, let them walk, draft another one, they suck, then a couple of years or three year later dump him, draft another one, develop him, and then let him walk again, wash, rinse repeat....

@ABQCOWBOY there is no point given him a rational discussion on the issues, as soon as someone mentions Dak he/she goes into meltdown and fails to get the most reasoning that paying Dak on a short term contract is a waste of money and development of the team.

The problem that Houston has is that he doesnt quite appreciate: 1) How bad our Defense is, 2) How restricted our CAP is for the next 2 years

I totally agree with the 5 year $35 aav.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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EXACTLY, no point having Watson if the defense is, as you say, "crappy".....you just dont get the idea that teams win (not individuals).

We are years away, because we are reliant on the draft as we've insufficient CAP to improve via free agency (barely enough to get the same scraps as last year).
Yeah but it’s not Watsons fault the defense sucks lol.

And that is not how the league works. When you draft guys those guys get better from year to year.
 

CowboyoWales

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This is the operative question isn't it. The team pissed away its chance to build a solid every year contender when Dak was making peanuts and now that the bill has come due it's his fault if they don't build a contender? GTFOH! Dak did his part.. It's time for the team to do theirs. And that starts with paying the man.. Yes he absolutely has to help them construct the contract to help with the cap but he should be under no obligation to take less money to make up for their stupidity with regard to building a team. The good news is he doesn't have to. He just has to instruct his agent to construct the contract the right way..

Who said fault Ronnie and certainly didnt blame Dak? Why not read the lead up posts rather than previous posts rather than jumping in on @CowboyRoy 's somewhat basic and incorrect appraisal of what I said.

My bottom line is similar to your's and my were to offset the comments on this thread that say we should pay Dak exactly what he wants for whatever period he wants (based on 2020's negotiations) .....if thats the case we'd need to restructure bad contracts as the CAP is terrible for 2022 and 2023 which as you say will need to be paid at some time and prolong the CAP problem. There is a real denial from a lot of Cowboys fans that our management of the CAP is one of the major reasons we've no championship for 27 years.

What happened in the past happened. You cant change history, but you can learn from it, and more importantly don't repeat it. The Romo and to a lesser extent the Dez contracts damaged us during Dak's early years. Just because "DAK DID HIS PART", is not the reason for paying him. We pay him based on what we have and where we are..... nothing to do with the past and unfortunately (due to our weaknesses) not really about his ability.

This is about a team and not Dak or his ability, something @CowboyRoy fails to grasp.

Organizationally, we are at a cross roads and Dak (and what he wants), is central to this. If he wants to be paid the top (or top minus Mahomes) contract, he'll need to get paid in Indianapolis/Washington as we cant afford
 

CowboyoWales

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Yeah but it’s not Watsons fault the defense sucks lol.

And that is not how the league works. When you draft guys those guys get better from year to year.

It doesnt matter whether it's Watson's fault, it's the situation.

What is the point of Houston paying a QB $39m per year, when it's got no defense and a bottom 3 CAP availability for the next 3 years????

See any similarities?
 

CowboyoWales

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If they are going to tag Prescott, then they need to take a QB with that 10th pick because that's nothing but a buy time move and they have no intention of a long term deal with him.

If he was actually close to signing and the time ran out, then I see no reason why they won't do that deal unless there is a health concern going forward.

Dalton is not the answer to anything. There was a very good reason why CIN took Burrow and Dalton had D's in CIN better than anything the Cowboys have fielded since he became a pro. He is not the future and was barely the present.

What's funny is the rap against Prescott can't beat the better teams, take a look at Dalton's record. He's a playoff powderpuff.

The decision is only one of 3. Long term deal, tag and try and trade him and take a QB in this draft or let him walk and draft a QB and possibly move up for Wilson.

Tagging him and keeping him is the worst decision. That's almost 38M with at best a flat cap with 2019 if they can reach a deal and the Cowboys are not that close to being a true contender. Why waste 38M on a QB? Break the rookie QB in and spend that money fixing the D.

The unknown is what is the value of Prescott on the open market? I wanted the non exclusive tag last year to find out.

No, the alternative option to Dak isnt necessarily signing a QB in the first round.....or playing/signing Dalton (lets make it clear i'm talking options, before the Dak Regardless gang pipe up about being a hater).

Dak Regardless fans miss the point with the comparisons to: Dalton, Romo or any other QB's. They also miss the point when they bring up his early years and the awful contracts we've given to our current roster.

The first thing we need to do is to identify where we are and a rational acceptance that whichever route we take we arent winning anything in the next 3 years minimum (very difficult to do this objectively with Jerry's age and obsession to win a SB in his lifetime). The contracts we have, combined with a plague of injuries (possible chronic injuries) means we need to stop this cycle rather than thinking we can band aid every year.

How many people have said....we'll build a defense through the draft, so everyone else just stands still, we're the only team drafting?? We're hamstrung that we cant compliment the draft through free agency over the next 2 years (and even 2023 we're presently bottom of the league).

At the start of each season Jerry tries to wheel and deal to get a winning side on the field, it's not worked NOT EVEN CLOSE TO WORKING, in the last 27 years, maybe it's a time to draw a line in the sand.
 

Diehardblues

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I just spoke with one of my most trusted and closet insider fans in Dallas.

And he believes based on everything he’s read and heard from those closer to the situation that’s it’s a “ no brainer” the Cowboys will resign Dak and make him one of the highest paid QB’s in the league.
 

CouchCoach

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I just spoke with one of my most trusted and closet insider fans in Dallas.

And he believes based on everything he’s read and heard from those closer to the situation that’s it’s a “ no brainer” the Cowboys will resign Dak and make him one of the highest paid QB’s in the league.
I don't know why some can't see that. The Joneses genuinely like him and like everything about him and if the truth be told, Booger admires Prescott standing his ground in the negotiations. Made for good copy and kept them as the lead story for the lazy sports networks that had to start each cast with "no news in the Dak Prescott/Dallas Cowboys negotiations today". The DC is the only team that they have to have a story about not having a story.

They want him as the DC QB going forward and this will get done as soon as the Joneses realize they're not getting additional mileage out of this in the media. This helps Prescott's endorsements deals as well.
 
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TheMarathonContinues

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It doesnt matter whether it's Watson's fault, it's the situation.

What is the point of Houston paying a QB $39m per year, when it's got no defense and a bottom 3 CAP availability for the next 3 years????

See any similarities?
Houston has been missing on defensive players. Their defense sucks because they haven’t managed to produce any new players in that unit just like Dallas. Watsons contract extension hasn’t even taken into account yet lol. His cap hit was not a issue.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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@ABQCOWBOY there is no point given him a rational discussion on the issues, as soon as someone mentions Dak he/she goes into meltdown and fails to get the most reasoning that paying Dak on a short term contract is a waste of money and development of the team.

The problem that Houston has is that he doesnt quite appreciate: 1) How bad our Defense is, 2) How restricted our CAP is for the next 2 years

I totally agree with the 5 year $35 aav.
my apologies in advance for the long response, but what you mentioned is quite loaded

on the contrary.....you could not be more wrong....

the goal is to go to the superbowl and obviously win it, the easiest path to the super bowl is through the QB, given if you lack in that area, it will take several more players playing at much higher levels specially on the defensive side to overcome the shortcoming of the offense, which always runs through the quarterback....

I understand that our defense is bad.... I have never argued that point. but the question and the problem is how do you fix it. seemingly, the dak detractor crowd, keep clinging to one notion "cap". That having a player paid highly, will handicap the team in fielding a competitive defense. That, logic and approach suggest that their goal is to build a defense through FA. to me that's the wrong approach which has never worked in the past, for anyone. show me one team that build through FA and succeeded.

if you really dug into the problem, you would notice over the past 15 years, we have perhaps drafted two impact players on defense (out of 44 selections). I am including Lawrence and Jones and neither of which are high impact players and one no longer on the team (where 99% of this very board wanted him gone). during the same period we have drafted over 9 players that are impact and high impact players in their positions on offense. Dak, Zeke, Martin, Smith, Collins, Gallup, CD, Fredrick(retired), Dez (cut) and made trades that had high impact, ala cooper. We also drafted some players that are paying high dividends and are high contributors , such as Schultz, Pollard, Murray, Free... with a lot less capital spent on those players...again looking over the past 15 years.

to further the defensive woes we have been woeful in signing FA with the likes of Hardy, Poe, McCoy, Griffin, Quinn (one year rental), etc. we have had some huge misses on the defensive side in draft with the likes of Claibourne, Taco, etc.

so why is it we can be so good drafting and building the offense and continuously miss on defense? until we address that issue even having 150M on the cap isn't going to solve the defensive problems.

To further dismiss the cap implications, this year alone we had 7 of the highest position contracts playing on the team including Smith,Martin, Zeke, Jaylon, Lawrence, Collins, Cooper. that with the Dak 32M cap hit on the books. so we had no issue having the ability to fit dak and have high priced contracts on the books. the question is how many of those do you want on the team? 10, 11, 12? show me which team has as many as ours?

Now, I have heard the argument, because of the cap issues we went on to sign craappy FA like Poe, etc...but the fact is that was not the issue. the issue was all of those players (McCoy, Poe, Griffin, Worley) were gone from the team by mid season and the defense improved. Thus the problem is that we couldn't' properly evaluate the players we had on the roster and their skills and how it fit in the scheme as opposed to not having enough money to sign impact players. instead of those players, we could instead have kept Byron Jones (whom everyone wanted gone and we saw the struggles in secondary this year)....so why is it again, we can't evaluate defensive players?

and if the notion is to let Dak walk, because of 3-5 million, as you said you are ok with 35M average, but will bulk at 38......so in your opinion 3M is the difference between the ability to build a championship team and not? really? we are willing to weaken the most important position on offense perhaps settling on the likes of Dalton or an unknown draft pick? and lets say we signed Dalton for 10M....we would have 25M on the cap, which players would we sign? give me names? what is the expected impact of those players on the team and defense? and is that improvement enough to compensate for the drop off in offensive performance (which we clearly had)? I have heard a lot of fantasy, Madden NFL answers to that one over time.

so no, I know our defense is bad....believe me I have harped on that...but I 100% disagree we can fix the defense through FA and I have advocated that we should not sign any defensive FA in 2021....instead lets find a way to better assess defensive players and find a couple of Gem's in draft even if it means to bring in outside consultants to help us do it....until we fix this problem: "defensive player evaluation", no amount of cap space is going to solve our problems.

second, I know the cap is restricted next year, which is even more reason to resign Dak even to a short term contract than Tag him. with a contract we can better maneuver the cap for 2021....and lets not make this just a dallas problem, because its not just Dallas dealing with the cap in 2021, 31 other NFL teams have to solve the problem to. its not unique to us.

I also think 2022 we should be back close to normal expected cap that was projected for 2022. the impact of the 2021 cap was mainly due to attendance issues, not TV money issues, and by next fall we should see return to normal or close to normal and thus put the NFL teams in better situation for 2022. Yes, I understand that's the unknown, but all NFL executives will be making similar plans and contingency backup back up plans, etc. which even makes it more important to sign Dak, because depending on what happens to 2022 cap, having players under contract can help maneuver under cap space and I assume if that's the case, most will be pushing money to future probably 2024 when its expected to go up by 20-25% based on TV renegotiations.

so can we give or get Dak to accept a 4 year contract? perhaps, if we have a poison pill in the contract that would allow him to become a FA, but would give us the ability to maneuver the cap.....
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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To me, this is a simple two part question. One, do you think Prescott is good enough with the right team around him? Two, do you think this FO can build that team?

Probably a good idea to ask that second question first because if they can't, does it really matter who the QB is? Brees, Rodgers and Wilson only have one ring and those first two are HOF locks.

The other thing to consider is the NFC East isn't QB rich. None of the teams have a championship caliber QB.
this is very true. where this FO has failed misreably is in defensive player evaluation where in the past 15 years we have picked probably only 2 impact defensive players (lawrence, Jones) but 10 offensive impact players....if we don't fix that problem, as you said, we can have any of those QBs and we still fail...

and one more item not to forget, we lacked coaching and critical game manager coaching for a very long time. I can't count the number of times we snatched defeat from jaws of victory because of coaching stupidity.

the hope is MM is the right coach...but even this year he made quite a number of questionable calls
 
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