Lawrence - Not So Much

[gjkoeppen]

At the end of the day absolutely no one gets fired picking Trevor Lawrence #1.

Getting cute on draft night and picking the guy not named Trevor Lawrence and still having the same chance of being wrong with the other guy is simply doing too much.

Trevor Lawrence is the selection every time. If I’m going to be wrong I want to be wrong with the best prospect in 10 years. If I’m right... I’m hoisting the Lombardi.

it really is checkers this time.

What you and some other just don't get is the same things have been said about other players that turned out to be busts. You think ya but this time it's different, but that was said when other players turned out to be busts too. Now I'm not saying nor have I ever said Lawrence is going to be a bust, but what I have said all along is I'll wait and see what he or any other college player actually does in the NFL before making any proclamations.
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[RustyBourneHorse]

What you and some other just don't get is the same things have been said about other players that turned out to be busts. You think ya but this time it's different, but that was said when other players turned out to be busts too. Now I'm not saying nor have I ever said Lawrence is going to be a bust, but what I have said all along is I'll wait and see what he or any other college player actually does in the NFL before making any proclamations.
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Well sure! There's always risk with everything. As far as drafting someone goes, sure, there is risk with players you draft. But, the draft is the best way to improve your team. You have to trust your scouts for who you bring in. You do get the Senior Bowl and Combine to help you be an idea to see for yourself what you think of a player. This helps reduce the risk.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Well sure! There's always risk with everything. As far as drafting someone goes, sure, there is risk with players you draft. But, the draft is the best way to improve your team. You have to trust your scouts for who you bring in. You do get the Senior Bowl and Combine to help you be an idea to see for yourself what you think of a player. This helps reduce the risk.

What you said is true. This on going thing is because I haven't and won't conceded that Lawrence will be all of that in the NFL because I haven't forgotten all the college players that the sporting world just raved about and were certain they would be good to great in the NFL but once they got there they were busts. This is why I keep saying that I will wait until I see these players in the NFL before proclaiming anything. Yes every draft choice has some risk involved, but I'm talking about the players that are getting all the raves but turn to be busts once they got to the NFL. Now Lawrence very well may turn out to be what they say he will be, but he could also be just like all the other players the sporting world raved about that turned out to be busts.
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[LACowboysFan1]

What you said is true. This on going thing is because I haven't and won't conceded that Lawrence will be all of that in the NFL because I haven't forgotten all the college players that the sporting world just raved about and were certain they would be good to great in the NFL but once they got there they were busts. This is why I keep saying that I will wait until I see these players in the NFL before proclaiming anything. Yes every draft choice has some risk involved, but I'm talking about the players that are getting all the raves but turn to be busts once they got to the NFL. Now Lawrence very well may turn out to be what they say he will be, but he could also be just like all the other players the sporting world raved about that turned out to be busts.
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Not just quarterbacks of course, it's every position. Archie Griffin won TWO Heisman trophies, never a great NFL running back. Tony Mandarich, offensive lineman bust. Charles Rogers, receiver bust. I could go to other positions.

The draft is largely a crap shoot, though there are good draft evaluators and bad ones....

 

[gjkoeppen]

Not just quarterbacks of course, it's every position. Archie Griffin won TWO Heisman trophies, never a great NFL running back. Tony Mandarich, offensive lineman bust. Charles Rogers, receiver bust. I could go to other positions.

The draft is largely a crap shoot, though there are good draft evaluators and bad ones....

I have said in other comments that it's not just QB's. You are right on those players. One in particular Mandarich was completely raved by the sporting world and look how he turned out.
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[Rockport]

Well sure! There's always risk with everything. As far as drafting someone goes, sure, there is risk with players you draft. But, the draft is the best way to improve your team. You have to trust your scouts for who you bring in. You do get the Senior Bowl and Combine to help you be an idea to see for yourself what you think of a player. This helps reduce the risk.

The draft is the best way to improve your team but you don't necessarily have to pick 1st to do it. Sure it helps but not to the degree most people think. Look at how many teams have had high draft picks for years and are still wallowing in the cellar.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

I have said in other comments that it's not just QB's. You are right on those players. One in particular Mandarich was completely raved by the sporting world and look how he turned out.
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Yup, and there are various reasons for the "busting". Mandarich was a steroid freak, others had injuries, others got into (or already were on) drugs and others played on stacked college teams that made them look better than they were....

 

[LACowboysFan1]

The draft is the best way to improve your team but you don't necessarily have to pick 1st to do it. Sure it helps but not to the degree most people think. Look at how many teams have had high draft picks for years and are still wallowing in the cellar.

Problem is to get the very high pick, usually you have to be a very bad team, and one player, even quarterback, won't turn a sorry franchise into a SB winner very often.
Cowboys got Dorsett by shrewd draft dealings (and some luck), but they were hardly a bad team the year before. And despite his brilliance, how many SBs did Dallas win with Dorsett?

One. How many with Larry Allen? One.

Draft may be the best way to build a team but it's fraught with risk....

 

[gjkoeppen]

Problem is to get the very high pick, usually you have to be a very bad team, and one player, even quarterback, won't turn a sorry franchise into a SB winner very often.
Cowboys got Dorsett by shrewd draft dealings (and some luck), but they were hardly a bad team the year before. And despite his brilliance, how many SBs did Dallas win with Dorsett?

One. How many with Larry Allen? One.

Draft may be the best way to build a team but it's fraught with risk....

After making the trade with Seattle it wasn't that lucky the Cowboys got Dorsett. Ricky Bell went 1st to one of the 2 expansion teams Tampa Bay, the other Seattle, who's coach was John McCay who was Bell's coach at USC. It was completely natural for McCay to draft his RB leaving Dorsett for the Cowboys.
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[RustyBourneHorse]

The draft is the best way to improve your team but you don't necessarily have to pick 1st to do it. Sure it helps but not to the degree most people think. Look at how many teams have had high draft picks for years and are still wallowing in the cellar.

Of course! We've done well beyond the first. We found one of the best QBs in the league in the 4th, and his predecessor, another great QB, was undrafted.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

After making the trade with Seattle it wasn't that lucky the Cowboys got Dorsett. Ricky Bell went 1st to one of the 2 expansion teams Tampa Bay, the other Seattle, who's coach was John McCay who was Bell's coach at USC. It was completely natural for McCay to draft his RB leaving Dorsett for the Cowboys.
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Dorsett could have been drafted by Tampa Bay, and Dallas would likely have taken Bell. Lucky for Dallas Tampa Bay wanted Bell instead of Dorsett. May have been natural for McKay to have drafted Bell but he still had the Dorsett option....

 

[Carter]

Hes a lock to be great. Rifle Arm, 6'6, 220 lbs and can run too. He had basically two bad games his whole career. Fields had 2 bad games of the 7 hes played in. Sure he outplayed Lawrence in the Playoffs this year but Lawrence beat the worldbeating Bama Team in the Final his Freshman Year. Hes not a choker and eventhough he played not great vs. Ohio State his Stats were still very good.

Wilson might become great but he played at BYU vs. guys that will flip burgers next season. You dont pass on Lawrence who played elite level college vs. Wilson.

Remember Carson Wentz looked like a world beater at North Dakota State. But they played Burgerflippers too most of the time.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Dorsett could have been drafted by Tampa Bay, and Dallas would likely have taken Bell. Lucky for Dallas Tampa Bay wanted Bell instead of Dorsett. May have been natural for McKay to have drafted Bell but he still had the Dorsett option....

Ya McKay could have select about 4 other guys too but he made it pretty clear when he accepted the job at Tampa Bay that he would take Bell.
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[RonnieT24]

Seriously, this is simply people stretching and reaching trying to poop on the best QB prospect coming out since PManning.

Prospect is the operative word isn't it? There simply is no guarantee that any of them will ever amount to anything in the NFL. I don't think there is any doubt that Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Trask and even that 1-AA guy whose name escapes me all have the talent to succeed in the right situation. But make no mistake about it.. put any of them with a clueless coach, change OCs and offenses every year on them and any one of them will fall flat on his face. And small minded people will crow about having "known all along" yadda yadda yadda..

 

[RonnieT24]

Ya McKay could have select about 4 other guys too but he made it pretty clear when he accepted the job at Tampa Bay that he would take Bell.
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I think you may have the order messed up here. McKay was the first coach the Bucs had and he coached them in their inaugural season in 1976. They did not draft Bell until the following year.. after going 0-14. Point being, McKay could not have made any proclamation about drafting Bell before he took the job because he had no idea when he would be drafting the following year.. Though in retrospect.. maybe he tanked for the #1 pick that first year so he COULD guarantee he would be able to draft Bell.

 

[Typhus]

With all the talk earlier in the season that the Cowboys should tank to possibly get a crack at Lawrence and all the talk about Lawrence going to be the next great QB, yet with so many people trying to make all their proclamations about Lawrence you would think he would have been an automatic lock for and gotten college football biggest award, the Heisman Trophy. But he didn't. As always, I'll wait and see what a player does in the NFL before making any proclamations.

Well my friend if your willing to wait that long than you already missed your opportunity.

 

[gjkoeppen]

I think you may have the order messed up here. McKay was the first coach the Bucs had and he coached them in their inaugural season in 1976. They did not draft Bell until the following year.. after going 0-14. Point being, McKay could not have made any proclamation about drafting Bell before he took the job because he had no idea when he would be drafting the following year.. Though in retrospect.. maybe he tanked for the #1 pick that first year so he COULD guarantee he would be able to draft Bell.

I thought I remembered it was when he became the bucs coach but then I was remembering they came into the league in 77, but it must have been before the the 77 draft that he said he would take Bell. In any case there was no question from anyone when draft day came the Tampa was going to take Bell.
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[KJJ]

You had fans on this board wanting the team to tank after the first 5 games. One fan started a thread claiming the Cowboys had completely destroyed their draft position by winning three consecutive games, which gave the team a chance in week 17. If some of the fans who were complaining about the team destroying their draft position by winning were around in the early 90s, it must have killed them watching the team win three Super Bowls in four years resulting in having to pick at the bottom of the draft those years. Lol It seems like all some care about on this board is the Cowboys having a high draft pick every year. As soon as the team loses a couple of games you have a bunch of knuckleheads pulling for them to tank.

 

[RonnieT24]

I thought I remembered it was when he became the bucs coach but then I was remembering they came into the league in 77, but it must have been before the the 77 draft that he said he would take Bell. In any case there was no question from anyone when draft day came the Tampa was going to take Bell.
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It's alright my friend.. many metric tons of water have flowed under the bridge since the 70's. I only remember it vividly because I grew up in Orlando and the Bucs were the first "home" team we ever got. Also being a high school running back at the time you might imagine I was keenly aware of the running backs coming into the league at that time. Anybody remember Anthony Davis' 6 TD performance against Notre Dame in '74? Or remember when Greg Pruitt averaged right at 9 ypc his junior year at Oklahoma? Dude rushed for 1760 yards on 196 carries.. The hilarious part about that was that since he did not reach the magic 200 carry mark his 9 ypc does not count as a record.. Man beancounters are stoopid. It was an even bigger injustice that they gave HIS Heisman to Pat Sullivan that in '71. East coast bias at its finest. But I digress.

 

[CouchCoach]

Any team that does not have that guy has no choice but to take a chance in the draft unless they can do what MIN or TB did. CAR tried that and it didn't work.

If the Cowboys weren't keeping Prescott, I would expect them to take a chance on one of the QB's in the 1st round. That would not be the same as trading up for Lynch when they had a QB. If they tag Prescott, I expect them to take a QB with that 1st pick. The odds of signing a QB after back to back tags are 0.