Failed 1st round qb issues

[HungryLion]

They missed cause their teams suck.

Dak is a miss too if he starts his career in Cincinnati.

Ryan Tannehill is a miss if he starts his career in Miami.

These QBs go as their situation goes. You put a solid team around them and they’ll do fine. You surround them by trash and they will not be very good.

You give the 15 to 20% of your cap space and you’re welcoming mediocrity.

Yeah I’ve heard you say this a million times. I disagreed with it then and disagree with it now. Namely because it’s your opinion with zero supporting evidence other than you saying

“I’m like really great and talented at evaluating QB’s. It’s just a skill I have”

nobody is arguing QB’s don’t need help either. Of course they do.


But then you’ll turn around and blame Dak for 1-3 despite the worst defense in the league. Lollllll. That is called hypocrisy dude.

 

[65fastback2plus2]

How was Peyton's oline?

2004:

Indianapolis Colts
Tarik Glenn headlines this group of unsung heros who perennially rank among the league's best in sacks allowed. This line has been together for a few years now, and despite losing Adam Meadows via free agency, they remain among the league's top ranked units.
Grade: B+, 7th

 

[TheSkaven]

“You can’t just pick up the phone and dial 1-800-QUARTERBACK.” - Bill Parcells

Let’s look at the quarterbacks who we can all agree are the best in the league right now, in no particular order. By the way, there just aren’t many good QBs in this league anymore.

- Ryan Tannehill (1st, 8th overall)
- Patrick Mahomes (1st, 10th overall)
- DeShaun Watson (1st, 12th overall)
- Aaron Rodgers (late 1st, 24th overall)
- Lamar Jackson (late 1st, 32nd overall)
- Russell Wilson (3rd, 75th overall)
- Dak Prescott (4th, 135th overall)
- Tom Brady (6th round, 199th overal)

It’s a crapshoot for sure but 5 of the league’s top 8 quarterbacks are still first round picks.

 

[dsturgeon]

you mean the one with 2x first team all pro, 2x 2nd team all pro and 6x pro bowl Jeff Saturday?

oh yea that sounds bad, but i was looking at it differently. Peyton learned to get the ball out of his hands quick, read defenses well, made adjustments, and took sacks when he needed. He helped get his oline there

Luck didn't have all those qualities, and his play style got him injured. There is longevity in learning to be productive in the pocket and take sacks.

Longevity will not be most qb' have anymore due to playstyle

 

[HungryLion]

“You can’t just pick up the phone and dial 1-800-QUARTERBACK.” - Bill Parcells

Let’s look at the quarterbacks who we can all agree are the best in the league right now, in no particular order. By the way, there just aren’t many good QBs in this league anymore.

- Ryan Tannehill (1st, 8th overall)
- Patrick Mahomes (1st, 10th overall)
- DeShaun Watson (1st, 12th overall)
- Aaron Rodgers (late 1st, 24th overall)
- Lamar Jackson (late 1st, 32nd overall)
- Russell Wilson (3rd, 75th overall)
- Dak Prescott (4th, 135th overall)
- Tom Brady (6th round, 199th overal)

It’s a crapshoot for sure but 5 of the league’s top 8 quarterbacks are still first round picks.

No doubt. Taking a first round QB gives you the highest chance of succeeding.

it’s still super hard to find the good ones though.

but that’s just the way the NFL is. Always has been I think. As long as I can remember.

 

[65fastback2plus2]

oh yea that sounds bad, but i was looking at it differently. Peyton learned to get the ball out of his hands quick, read defenses well, made adjustments, and took sacks when he needed. He helped get his oline there

Luck didn't have all those qualities, and his play style got him injured. There is longevity in learning to be productive in the pocket and take sacks.

Peyton had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Jeff Clark, Edgerin James, and a whole host of players Luck never had.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

It is.

Carson Wentz is not a bust.. Nobody trades that for a bust.

You guys celebrating are being fools.

And as usual another hate post bashing posters. Bravo.

 

[CATCH17]

Yeah I’ve heard you say this a million times. I disagreed with it then and disagree with it now. Namely because it’s your opinion with zero supporting evidence other than you saying

“I’m like really great and talented at evaluating QB’s. It’s just a skill I have”

nobody is arguing QB’s don’t need help either. Of course they do.


But then you’ll turn around and blame Dak for 1-3 despite the worst defense in the league. Lollllll. That is called hypocrisy dude.

I don’t blame Dak for any of it.. Of course the defense was an issue as well as our slow starts and his turnovers but he does not make a big enough impact to
Blame.. Dak is solid but he isn’t a difference maker.

 

[dsturgeon]

Peyton had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Jeff Clark, Edgerin James, and a whole host of players Luck never had.

All true, but Peytons playstyle also made them look good ( harrison and wayne were awesome). Peyton did not do well when he first started.

You can look at it how you like, but Luck didnt have to play like he was super man and sacrifice his body. So, you can blame the oline, lack of skill players, or playstyle for him no longer being in the league.

But taking sacks and not trying to be superman would have kept him in the league

3 bad years learning to stand in the pocket and develop all his skills while the team drafted around him would have been smart

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

welp saw somewhere that 0(ZERO)- of 22 first round qbs from 2009-2017 i believe are no longer with their original team..so thats what , 6years not one first round qb stuck with the team that drafted them. More are coming to up soon the years of failed 1st rounders could get extended..

This is alarming, Basically none are making it to a 2nd contract.

all those clamoring for trade up or getting qb in the first round at 10 might want to think hard about the risk..sign dak is risk but is it more risk to trade him then miss on qbs the next 2-3 drafts over 6years..hmm a dilemma for sure.

march 9th is coming quickly. lots of decsions for the nfl but the DC FO with dak and FAs..

The NFL needs to actually get the cap SET, so the FA and Tags can begin..

all these forum pundits swear by this qb and that QB, then they disappear and say nothing when 99.9% of the time they are wrong. after guessing about 100 times over few years, one of the QBs turns out to be good (i.e. Allen) and then you will never hear the end of it on how they predicted this guys was good and we should pick this guy or that guy.

facts are 4 out of 5 first round QBs fail. and the ones that stick around, are average with a sprinkle of good ones here and there...its the hardest position to evaluate in the NFL, unless its someone like Peyton or Aikman, where they are just so good and look so good.

 

[Loso86]

welp saw somewhere that 0(ZERO)- of 22 first round qbs from 2009-2017 i believe are no longer with their original team..so thats what , 6years not one first round qb stuck with the team that drafted them. More are coming to up soon the years of failed 1st rounders could get extended..

This is alarming, Basically none are making it to a 2nd contract.

all those clamoring for trade up or getting qb in the first round at 10 might want to think hard about the risk..sign dak is risk but is it more risk to trade him then miss on qbs the next 2-3 drafts over 6years..hmm a dilemma for sure.

march 9th is coming quickly. lots of decsions for the nfl but the DC FO with dak and FAs..

The NFL needs to actually get the cap SET, so the FA and Tags can begin..

I believe its because there being thrown to the wolves early and often

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

It is.

Carson Wentz is not a bust.. Nobody trades that for a bust.

You guys celebrating are being fools.

if he was great, his team would keep him. the fact he got traded for a 3rd round pick, tells you what the league thinks of the 2nd over all pick....now, I am sure you are going to say Brees....but I can give you a couple of hundred names that didn't work out, so don't go crawling up that tree.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Worst case is we are completely terrible and can draft a legit QB prospect..

but OP said, see the trend over the past few years....and prospect doesn't gaurantee anything....4 out of 5 fail. of the 1's that survice, they are average and every few years you hit on an elite one. so you want to develop one...great, lets do it...but 4 years from then you have to pay them...and here we go again, wash, rinse, repeat....at some point you have to take a dump or get off the can.....you can't hover half way hoping for a miracle.

 

[aikemirv]

Is there a failed High School to College qb problem? Is there a failed Peewee to high school qb problem?

There is an qb elimination procedure that happens from youth to the nfl.

I would like to hear how you make more Top notch qb's in a system that is designed for only 1 team to win.

The problem is the salary cap.
It makes a competitive league, which is the best way to do it
But It doesnt allow for realistic qb development at the nfl level because of money management, and throws them into the fire

The problem is "the Market price" for QB's. It overvalues a position that most QB's can't fulfill that value

The problem is a pass centric league. Give CB's more room to battle and tighten up on holding on the oline - put focus back on the run game and defense. Does not sell as many tickets so we know that won't happen. Players union could do a better job.

 

[CATCH17]

but OP said, see the trend over the past few years....and prospect doesn't gaurantee anything....4 out of 5 fail. of the 1's that survice, they are average and every few years you hit on an elite one. so you want to develop one...great, lets do it...but 4 years from then you have to pay them...and here we go again, wash, rinse, repeat....at some point you have to take a dump or get off the can.....you can't hover half way hoping for a miracle.

Since 2016 who is failing?

Almost every team has a solid starter.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

They missed cause their teams suck.

Dak is a miss too if he starts his career in Cincinnati.

Ryan Tannehill is a miss if he starts his career in Miami.

These QBs go as their situation goes. You put a solid team around them and they’ll do fine. You surround them by trash and they will not be very good.

You give the 15 to 20% of your cap space and you’re welcoming mediocrity.

so why get rid of Dak. we put a solid team around him and now you want to start all over again from scratch....makes no sense.

and Tannehill benefited from the teams run first, play defense mentality. he is not carrying that team by any measure...

 

[dsturgeon]

The problem is "the Market price" for QB's. It overvalues a position that most QB's can't fulfill that value

The problem is a pass centric league. Give CB's more room to battle and tighten up on holding on the oline - put focus back on the run game and defense. Does not sell as many tickets so we know that won't happen. Players union could do a better job.

I would watch more. I like the run game and defense. Pollards 40+ yard td's made me happy

You are right though

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Since 2016 who is failing?

2016

Goff just got traded for a 33 year old QB, with back problems and two first round picks
Wentz the second over all pick got traded for a 3rd round pick.....that's what the league thinks of him
Lynch? not sure where he is these days, bounced around a few times
Hakenberg....LOL
Dak is the on the same team and a top 10 QB

I won't mention the other 10.

2017
Turbiskey...he was so good they went out and got Foles and then flip flopped between the two
Mahomes...aha, the one.
Watson...ok, he got a second contract.
the other 7 are flops

2018
Mayfield - he is average at best.
Darnold - a failure already, part of the reason they suck so bad
Rosen - where is he now?
Allen - He is a keeper
Jackson - rushing champion playing QB. he is average in my book
9 others not worthy of mention
2019
Murray - he seems to be average. another RB playing QB. hasn't accomplished much except to be mentioned a lot
Jones - are the giants already looking. he looks average to below average
Haskins - OMG, what a disaster
Lock - hasn't accomplished much, just a lot of hype
I won't get into the other 7...not worth our time
2020-
I won't judge for another couple of years, since they were rookies. Burrow looks ok, but lets wait and see

38 QBs. Dak, Allen, Mahomes, Watson, Jackson are pretty much top 10ish....the rest are 11-20 range (Mayfield, Murray)...so about 7 out of 38 QBs are above average.

of the 14 first rounders, Mahomes, Allen, Watson. seem to be worth their picks....that's 3 out of 14

it doesn't look very good and you are slightly better off picking in the first round and in top 15 than picking in other rounds....

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Yeah I’ve heard you say this a million times. I disagreed with it then and disagree with it now. Namely because it’s your opinion with zero supporting evidence other than you saying

“I’m like really great and talented at evaluating QB’s. It’s just a skill I have”

nobody is arguing QB’s don’t need help either. Of course they do.


But then you’ll turn around and blame Dak for 1-3 despite the worst defense in the league. Lollllll. That is called hypocrisy dude.

you know he didn't like Watson or Mahomes, didn't think their games would fit the NFL. you should see the list of those he liked.

Like I have said it before. I will pick 100 QB over the next 5 years and tout each one. I will probably miss 99 and hit on one and then you won't stop hearing from me. I can pick QBs....that's how it works...

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

They missed cause their teams suck.

Dak is a miss too if he starts his career in Cincinnati.

Ryan Tannehill is a miss if he starts his career in Miami.

These QBs go as their situation goes. You put a solid team around them and they’ll do fine. You surround them by trash and they will not be very good.

You give the 15 to 20% of your cap space and you’re welcoming mediocrity.

btw, ss you think Burrow is going to suck in Cinci and just be out of the league. I mean its Cinci....