Career win percentage among starting NFL QBs

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm sorry I must have missed the championship parades the Titans have been throwing with Henry and Tannehill. Since you are so hung up on how much of team's payroll would you then concede that since 2020 was the only year Dak was the team's highest paid player he was NOT responsible for wins and losses before 2020? And since he didn't play in 11 of those games he certainly could not be considered responsible for those right? Dak wasn't making 160 million when the defense was pooping the bed the last two years so that's a specious argument. If you think Dak is the same QB that he was 5 years ago then fine.. That's your right. Dak has been a good QB from the start and I fully expect him to continue to be.. In fact I expect him to keep getting better. You want somebody else at QB.. Fine.. buy the team and install your guy.. I'm going to go ahead and root for the guy we HAVE at QB to be great and hope his teammates quit pissin down their legs as often as they have been.

Why? You didn't have to buy the team so that your guy gets to play QB. How is that fair at all?

BTW, there is plenty of piss to go around. Maybe you consider telling Dak to follow your advice in the first quarter of games? Just saying, it's not just everybody else. It's Dak too and now that he is getting paid, it's on him.

 

[USArmyVet]

The OP didn't claim Goff had a higher win percentage than Dak.. you did.. He made a math error.. you made a reading error. Flip a coin as to which you consider to be worse. Both are errors.

LOL...okay, I see. I do wonder though if you would come to the aid of someone that made an anti-Dak mistake....or is it just the pro-Dak guys you defend?

 

[75boyz]

I wouldn't use Tannehill and Henry as an example seeing as how since Tannehill went to TENN and partnered with Henry the Titans have an 18-8 regular seasons record (win % of .692) and have a playoff record of 2-2 and went to 1 AFC Championship game. By way of comparison in his last 26 games Dak and Zeke have a team record of 14-12 ( a win % of .538) and a 1-1 playoff record with ZERO Championship game appearances.

True, maybe not a good "overall" comparison. But as for their 2016 rookie years together I was kinda drawing a similar comparison as to the TOP smash mouth brand of offense like Tennessee plays now.
But you're right, from an overall standpoint Tannehill and Henry seem to be much more effective and successful in the win column than Dak has historically overall now been with Zeke.

So yep, I agree. Excellent point.

 

[Clarke82]

I think this is a thread that proves the axiom "There's Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics".
I'm all in with Dak because, he's done us all proud in everyway except championships.
Saying that, Dak does have a concerning trend.
When trailing after 3 quarters with Dak under center, the Cowboys are 5 wins and 18 losses. Which isn't brutal. It's 21.7% and 29.1% is what the couple dozen of elite QBs I checked. Eli Manning was 14.1%
When trailing after Halftime with Dak under center, the Cowboys are 5 wins and 21 losses. However, this is more concerning. Dak is about 19.2% and the elite come in at 40.1%
However, as the 3rd quarter stats tell you, Eli was the worst QB I checked when losing after 3 quarters but, he won 2 Super Bowls against the cheating Patriots.
To me stats don't really mean much. PFF is the biggest joke in sports. They grade players without knowing what the player is being asked to do. Sure they can read the scheme and
give a guess at the player's assignment but, they can't be positive. Grading players in a vacuum on every play without considering his assignment or the players surrounding him is a
fools errand.

 

[USArmyVet]

True, maybe not a good "overall" comparison. But as for their 2016 rookie years together I was kinda drawing a similar comparison as to the TOP smash mouth brand of offense like Tennessee plays now.
But you're right, from an overall standpoint Tannehill and Henry seem to be much more effective and successful in the win column than Dak has historically overall now been with Zeke.

So yep, I agree. Excellent point.

Trust me, I would love for Dallas to be that 'punch you in the mouth' type of offense and defense but alas they have become a soft organization that lacks the fight necessary to intimidate teams.

 

[RonnieT24]

We all can agree that the Dallas defense played like garbage in 2020. So, what say you about the 16 games of 2019 wherein Dallas finished 8-8 all while the offense scored an average of 27.125 points/game while the defense gave up an average of 20.06 points/game. So how do you blame the defense for an 8-8 record when they were holding teams to just over 7 points less than the Dallas offense scored? At some point in time you have to look at certain games, much like you and others do with the Dallas defense, and say Dak failed in those games.

I am pretty sure I have stated on a number of occasions that Dak failed in some games in 2019. Only a softhead feels the need to boil every win or loss down to one player or even one unit. However any of us can look at the games in which the offense scored at least 21 points and the games in which the defense held the opponent under 21 points and conclude that the defense failed more often than the offense did. That is an undeniable fact. No one can argue that Dak and the offense fell short in some games in 2019. The reason the defense gets more blame (at least from where I sit) is that it failed more often.. plain and simple. I have no issue in acknowledging games in which I felt like if Dak had played better we would have won.. Nor do I have any issue acknowledging games in which I thought the defense let us down even though the offense did enough to win. At the end of the season I can look objectively at performance and again, if I say the defense had a good game when it gave up 21 points or less .. They hit the mark 10 times in 2019.. Flipping it over to offense they scored 21 or more 12 times.. So in 2019 the Dak led offense was better than the defense and as such the defense gets more blame for losses than the offense. Obviously the same can be said for 2020.. There has been years when the defense was BETTER than the offense which I will happily give them credit for. In 2018 both units hit the mark 8 times. So that year was a push.. in 2017 the defense hit the mark 9 times.. while the offense only got there 8 times.. so the defense was the better unit that year though I suspect that if Zeke plays the whole season the offense probably wins this year too.. In 2016 the offense scored at least 21 points 12 times while the defense held teams to 21 or less 12 times.. Another tie.. THAT was some complementary football! So in Dak's 5 years the offense has been better twice, the defense has been better once and there has been two ties. The offense has been the higher ranked unit twice while the defense has been higher ranked twice and in 2016 both units were #5.

The bottom line is that at the end of the day if your offense can put up 21 points you should win more often than not. I think that's borne out across the league over time. If the offense is getting me at least 21 and I don't have a winning record I am looking at the defense.. Period. Okay maybe the special teams too since ST's have screwed us more than a few times over the last few years too.

 

[75boyz]

We all can agree that the Dallas defense played like garbage in 2020. So, what say you about the 16 games of 2019 wherein Dallas finished 8-8 all while the offense scored an average of 27.125 points/game while the defense gave up an average of 20.06 points/game. So how do you blame the defense for an 8-8 record when they were holding teams to just over 7 points less than the Dallas offense scored? At some point in time you have to look at certain games, much like you and others do with the Dallas defense, and say Dak failed in those games.

It's as though these things didn't happen. The raw end of year fantasy numbers erase what actually happens in games to achieve them. That other infamous stretch of offensive futility in 2017 ithout Zeke and Tyron out/hurting is glossed over regularly as well for some reason. Like a thing that families don't talk about at social gatherings. It's taboo, lol.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It's as though these things didn't happen. The raw end of year fantasy numbers erase what actually happens in games to achieve them. That other infamous stretch of offensive futility in 2017 ithout Zeke and Tyron out/hurting is glossed over regularly as well for some reason. Like a thing that families don't talk about at social gatherings. It's taboo, lol.

LOL...... This is funny to me. In my family, the only thing that everybody doesn't talk about is where everybody hides their good booze. All else is fair game!

 

[Einstein]

I wanna pizza.

Damn, now I want pizza too, lol...

 

[USArmyVet]

I am pretty sure I have stated on a number of occasions that Dak failed in some games in 2019. Only a softhead feels the need to boil every win or loss down to one player or even one unit. However any of us can look at the games in which the offense scored at least 21 points and the games in which the defense held the opponent under 21 points and conclude that the defense failed more often than the offense did. That is an undeniable fact. No one can argue that Dak and the offense fell short in some games in 2019. The reason the defense gets more blame (at least from where I sit) is that it failed more often.. plain and simple. I have no issue in acknowledging games in which I felt like if Dak had played better we would have won.. Nor do I have any issue acknowledging games in which I thought the defense let us down even though the offense did enough to win. At the end of the season I can look objectively at performance and again, if I say the defense had a good game when it gave up 21 points or less .. They hit the mark 10 times in 2019.. Flipping it over to offense they scored 21 or more 12 times.. So in 2019 the Dak led offense was better than the defense and as such the defense gets more blame for losses than the offense. Obviously the same can be said for 2020.. There has been years when the defense was BETTER than the offense which I will happily give them credit for. In 2018 both units hit the mark 8 times. So that year was a push.. in 2017 the defense hit the mark 9 times.. while the offense only got there 8 times.. so the defense was the better unit that year though I suspect that if Zeke plays the whole season the offense probably wins this year too.. In 2016 the offense scored at least 21 points 12 times while the defense held teams to 21 or less 12 times.. Another tie.. THAT was some complementary football! So in Dak's 5 years the offense has been better twice, the defense has been better once and there has been two ties. The offense has been the higher ranked unit twice while the defense has been higher ranked twice and in 2016 both units were #5.

The bottom line is that at the end of the day if your offense can put up 21 points you should win more often than not. I think that's borne out across the league over time. If the offense is getting me at least 21 and I don't have a winning record I am looking at the defense.. Period. Okay maybe the special teams too since ST's have screwed us more than a few times over the last few years too.

Look, I appreciate you support your positions with statistics rather than just opinion but no need for the 'softhead' name calling as it lessens your position. That said, enjoy the day.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Question, in the games where we scored 21, did our defense give up the lead or were we always behind and we just ended up scoring 21 in a losing cause?

It makes a difference. One suggests that the Defense did, indeed, cost us games. The other suggests that the Offense was never going to win, regardless of what the D did or did not do.

 

[75boyz]

I think this is a thread that proves the axiom "There's Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics".
I'm all in with Dak because, he's done us all proud in everyway except championships.
Saying that, Dak does have a concerning trend.
When trailing after 3 quarters with Dak under center, the Cowboys are 5 wins and 18 losses. Which isn't brutal. It's 21.7% and 29.1% is what the couple dozen of elite QBs I checked. Eli Manning was 14.1%
When trailing after Halftime with Dak under center, the Cowboys are 5 wins and 21 losses. However, this is more concerning. Dak is about 19.2% and the elite come in at 40.1%
However, as the 3rd quarter stats tell you, Eli was the worst QB I checked when losing after 3 quarters but, he won 2 Super Bowls against the cheating Patriots.
To me stats don't really mean much. PFF is the biggest joke in sports. They grade players without knowing what the player is being asked to do. Sure they can read the scheme and
give a guess at the player's assignment but, they can't be positive. Grading players in a vacuum on every play without considering his assignment or the players surrounding him is a
fools errand.

Great objective post man. Well done with the whole statistical backing and my personal most over rated QB to ever play example too in She-Lie...ugggghhh.
Really good job though.

 

[RonnieT24]

Why? You didn't have to buy the team so that your guy gets to play QB. How is that fair at all?

BTW, there is plenty of piss to go around. Maybe you consider telling Dak to follow your advice in the first quarter of games? Just saying, it's not just everybody else. It's Dak too and now that he is getting paid, it's on him.

Dak's salary has no impact on anything to me. How he plays has always been on him to me. It's the same standard I apply to every player.. As for the first quarter thing.. until Kellen Moore started calling plays the Cowboys were notorious for scoring on their opening drives and playing from ahead. I hope between him and Dak they get that nonsense figured out because as I have stated many times, we should not need a quarter and a half to figure out which of the opposing team's DBs can't cover Amari Cooper. We should know that going in and use that knowledge to put the ball in the end zone as quickly as possible and keep repeating until the other team adjusts. We should also not need to get TFL on 5 or 6 running plays before we figure out which LB we need to quit letting run free into our backfield. These issues are fixable but for whatever reason Moore seems to always want to use the first few drives as "feeling out" drives. Meanwhile our horrid defense is getting strafed by the opponent and we're down 2-3 scores before he figures things out. There is absolutely zero reason that can't be fixed.

 

[75boyz]

Question, in the games where we scored 21, did our defense give up the lead or were we always behind and we just ended up scoring 21 in a losing cause?

It makes a difference. One suggests that the Defense did, indeed, cost us games. The other suggests that the Offense was never going to win, regardless of what the D did or did not do.

Spot on. Context is everything.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

Yeah, numbers sound good.

QBs numbers should directly translate into more Ws imo but here there is an always an accountability problem.
Do an "every offensive snap plus/minus" All22 breakdown. Focus on 3rd downs.
Challenge yourself to delve deeper. When are points scored. When are they not. What opponents are being played.
Is the oline getting beat every single play?
Could an audible have been made to a hot route?
Was one receiver stared down?
Is that still the same fundamentally flawed footwork from MS State.
Wow, there was separation there on the replay, why didn't he throw that into that window?
It's a little thing called context.
He still does the exact same stuff he ever has.

You're another guy who believes he has magically morphed into a high volume Big 12 type guy when nothing could be further from the truth.
The winning formula is the 2016 way. The way that Tennesse is doing it with Tannehill and Henry. The problem is THAT oline and THAT RB are long gone.
Just compare his simple stuff. Touchdown to int ratio against poor teams and against good teams.
And then....
Drum roll.
Convince yourself that the one person touching every snap and getting paid the Lions share of his entire team's payroll is not somehow responsible for wins and losses and not just your fantasy football numbers.

Or maybe consider 160 mil spent couldn't have been used on the defense that you are blaming for all the losses while paying a lesser QB salary or drafting one to accomplish the SAME most important thing. And that is Wins.

I mean, Kirk Cousins has really nice end of year stats every year, right?

No worries.

Im about the team.

Many here are about the player.

To each their own.

Dak literally only has 1 season that can even compare to the average Kirk Cousin season.

 

[RonnieT24]

I think this is a thread that proves the axiom "There's Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics".
I'm all in with Dak because, he's done us all proud in everyway except championships.
Saying that, Dak does have a concerning trend.
When trailing after 3 quarters with Dak under center, the Cowboys are 5 wins and 18 losses. Which isn't brutal. It's 21.7% and 29.1% is what the couple dozen of elite QBs I checked. Eli Manning was 14.1%
When trailing after Halftime with Dak under center, the Cowboys are 5 wins and 21 losses. However, this is more concerning. Dak is about 19.2% and the elite come in at 40.1%
However, as the 3rd quarter stats tell you, Eli was the worst QB I checked when losing after 3 quarters but, he won 2 Super Bowls against the cheating Patriots.
To me stats don't really mean much. PFF is the biggest joke in sports. They grade players without knowing what the player is being asked to do. Sure they can read the scheme and
give a guess at the player's assignment but, they can't be positive. Grading players in a vacuum on every play without considering his assignment or the players surrounding him is a fools errand.

Not if you can get somebody to treat you as some sort of authority and make millions of dollars "guessing" what guys were supposed to be doing. Give them kudos for great marketing.. but given that they do most of their grading from the TV feeds and not even the all-22 (because the NFL doesn't even distribute the all-22 until the day after the games.) .. I have never given much weight to what they say about a player. But they found a way to make some $$$ and took the ball and ran with it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Dak's salary has no impact on anything to me. How he plays has always been on him to me. It's the same standard I apply to every player.. As for the first quarter thing.. until Kellen Moore started calling plays the Cowboys were notorious for scoring on their opening drives and playing from ahead. I hope between him and Dak they get that nonsense figured out because as I have stated many times, we should not need a quarter and a half to figure out which of the opposing team's DBs can't cover Amari Cooper. We should know that going in and use that knowledge to put the ball in the end zone as quickly as possible and keep repeating until the other team adjusts. We should also not need to get TFL on 5 or 6 running plays before we figure out which LB we need to quit letting run free into our backfield. These issues are fixable but for whatever reason Moore seems to always want to use the first few drives as "feeling out" drives. Meanwhile our horrid defense is getting strafed by the opponent and we're down 2-3 scores before he figures things out. There is absolutely zero reason that can't be fixed.

Not even kind of true. If you aren't even willing to recognize the obvious facts that impact every single thing involved in building this team, then don't comment at all. It's only going to be a dishonest post and I have no time for that.

What ever "Standard" you apply is irrelevant. That only matters to you. This is about what is, not what is in your mind. Kellen Moore is not the reason Dak did not find receivers or overthrew targets or just flat didn't execute, early in games. The plays were there and you can see that if you go to the all 22 but that's here nor there, the question, once again, is if other teams came back on us after being down or were they always up and we scored points along the way. That will tell you if it was on our D or if it was poor Offense to go along with poor Defense. There is no getting around that.

 

[75boyz]

Dak literally only has 1 season that can even compare to the average Kirk Cousin season.

Yeah, not an analytics/stats professor but Im not ignorant. I knew Kirk's numbers were pretty good especially from his career's overall year end standpoint so I used him as an example to go by.

Maybe I could have just said something like "Reaching a Kirk Cousins ceiling level of performance does not translate to consistent post season success" would have been better understood.

But yeah.

 

[RS12]

You certainly don't have to look far to see how easy it is for cults and zealots to exist. People see exactly what they wanna see.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

Yeah, not an analytics/stats professor but Im not ignorant. I knew Kirk's numbers were pretty good especially from his career's overall year end standpoint so I used him as an example to go by.

Maybe I could have just said something like "Reaching a Kirk Cousins ceiling level of performance does not translate to consistent post season success" would have been better understood.

But yeah.

People think Cousins is a bum though while Dak is worth 40 Million a year lol