The Zeke Conundrum

[basel90]

Do we keep Zeke for next season ( not this coming season)? If not do we make a move on Sermon in round 2? Zeke makes a ton of money. Sermon is a cheaper version of Zeke imho. It is an interesting take I think. It bears thought...

It was a mistake keeping him this season . But Jerry loves his draft picks and offensive stars . If he keeps averaging 4 yards a carry , even empty yards , he will be back next season , sadly .

 

[gjkoeppen]

Okay....so I don't read you wrong. I get you loud and clear.

Your comparing him to probably one of the best rookie RB seasons EVER....on a stacked machine team. And he MUST perform at the level...on questionable teams with questionable coaching. Who COULD match it?

His stats have only truly "fallen off" last year. Nearly a thousand yards on a six game suspension? Then 1400+ total and 98+ ypg, then 1300+ with 85 ypg. Yes...that's a BIT of a decline. Sure. But it's still good yards on a team that EVERYONE claims the coach sucked and couldn't wait to get rid of him. If the coach sucks....doesn't that effect the players? I would think yes. Coach can't suck and have magical numbers.

Did Dak's numbers "decline"? Well probably not, right? But then 3500-ish yards is pretty pedestrian these days. Pretty easy to not "decline" form that. Even the QB you guys tore up...Andy Dalton...was able to manage around 3500 except the two season HE put 4500.

I get it...you don't like 'im. You'd rather have Fournette.

Here's what makes your argument so DUMB. You tried to use caching as a reason for his decline in yardage yet it was the same coach he had as a rookie. Now for the true facts and his decline. In 2016 his rookie season he had 1,631 yards, in 2017 his suspension year for some of his off the field issues he had 983 yards which is less than 1,631 yards. In 2018 he had 1,434 yards which is less than 1,631 yards. In 2019 he had 1,357 yards which is less than 1,434 yards. In 2020 he had 979 yards which is less than 1,357 and 983 for a 10 games season in 2017. Lets not forget in 2020 he developed a TERRIBLE fumbling problem. You're right I don't like Elliott because of his continual drop in production but also because of off the field he still acts like a teenager and hasn't grown up. What mature adult in front of thousands of people gathered for a parade pulls down the top of a woman exposing her breasts and then starts to play with them and acting like he's so cool? Now I have given Elliott a pass on the 2020 season because of all the injuries and the defense but that doesn't change the other 3 years. Rookies normally get better after their 1st season except Elliott. Also the NFL average career length for a RB is like just under 3 seasons and that is why many if not most RB don't get a 2nd contract with the team that drafted them. Many just bounce around from team to team on smaller and smaller contracts and don't get massive contracts like Elliott got. You can like Elliott if you want but I'd rather have a RB who's numbers get better for the 1st few years and not decline.
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[SteveTheCowboy]

Here's what makes your argument so DUMB. You tried to use caching as a reason for his decline in yardage yet it was the same coach he had as a rookie. Now for the true facts and his decline. In 2016 his rookie season he had 1,631 yards, in 2017 his suspension year for some of his off the field issues he had 983 yards which is less than 1,631 yards. In 2018 he had 1,434 yards which is less than 1,631 yards. In 2019 he had 1,357 yards which is less than 1,434 yards. In 2020 he had 979 yards which is less than 1,357 and 983 for a 10 games season in 2017. Lets not forget in 2020 he developed a TERRIBLE fumbling problem. You're right I don't like Elliott because of his continual drop in production but also because of off the field he still acts like a teenager and hasn't grown up. What mature adult in front of thousands of people gathered for a parade pulls down the top of a woman exposing her breasts and then starts to play with them and acting like he's so cool? Now I have given Elliott a pass on the 2020 season because of all the injuries and the defense but that doesn't change the other 3 years. Rookies normally get better after their 1st season except Elliott. Also the NFL average career length for a RB is like just under 3 seasons and that is why many if not most RB don't get a 2nd contract with the team that drafted them. Many just bounce around from team to team on smaller and smaller contracts and don't get massive contracts like Elliott got. You can like Elliott if you want but I'd rather have a RB who's numbers get better for the 1st few years and not decline.
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I Didn't "try to use coaching as reason for his decline". I said it COULD be ONE of the reasons...for some performance issues. You gonna sit there and tell me a bad coach who got fired....wouldn't have that effect on players? Come on...dude...just stop it.

Then you copy and paste stats at me like it validates your hate.

Then you act like I said he was a saint.

Then you act like any old rookie has a FREAK season then is supposed to get BETTER.

Done here. You are ridiculous. Carry on if you must.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Again, stop being obtuse. It’s not about hating Elliott. It’s hard to take you seriously when you keep going back to that point.

I don’t hate Elliott. I just don’t like paying TBs, any TB, as much money as we are. In a capped league, I think you can build a good running game using less cap space than we are and that extra space can be used to bolster other positions.

If you are so concerned about "paying"...then yes...it's hate. Certainly when it's incessant. If you hate "paying" then stop crapping on zeke. Jerry didn't HAVE to do it.

For me..it's hard to take anyone serious that has issues with the paycheck and incessantly beeches at the player. "Obtuse". That isn't the player it's management.

 

[gjkoeppen]

I Didn't "try to use coaching as reason for his decline". I said it COULD be ONE of the reasons...for some performance issues. You gonna sit there and tell me a bad coach who got fired....wouldn't have that effect on players? Come on...dude...just stop it.

Then you copy and paste stats at me like it validates your hate.

Then you act like I said he was a saint.

Then you act like any old rookie has a FREAK season then is supposed to get BETTER.

Done here. You are ridiculous. Carry on if you must.

Funny, not ha ha funny that you claim actual rushing production facts that in reality REALLY DOES prove what I say but you still just dismiss them as not real. I was never a big Garrett fan but you are trying to use him on both sides of the fence. First you imply that Garrett as coach was one of the reasons for Elliott's decline and then imply that firing a bad coach would have some negative impact on players. Explain how firing a bad coach has a negative impact on players. Then you make it sound like Elliott's rookie season was such a freak season but there have been RB on other teams who lead the league with more yards than Elliott did. Even the RB Elliott replaced, Murray, led the league with more yards, 1,845. So stop with the excuse that because he had a really good rookie year that it was impossible to meet that or pass that mark. Instead of doing that he just declined in production. There are very few people here that don't think Elliott is way over paid and has not come anywhere close to living up to that contract. You are the ridiculous one here thinking Elliott is worth what he's being paid. Most believe if he didn't have the contract he has he would be gone.
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[SteveTheCowboy]

Funny, not ha ha funny that you claim actual rushing production facts that in reality REALLY DOES prove what I say but you still just dismiss them as not real. I was never a big Garrett fan but you are trying to use him on both sides of the fence. First you imply that Garrett as coach was one of the reasons for Elliott's decline and then imply that firing a bad coach would have some negative impact on players. Explain how firing a bad coach has a negative impact on players. Then you make it sound like Elliott's rookie season was such a freak season but there have been RB on other teams who lead the league with more yards than Elliott did. Even the RB Elliott replaced, Murray, led the league with more yards, 1,845. So stop with the excuse that because he had a really good rookie year that it was impossible to meet that or pass that mark. Instead of doing that he just declined in production. There are very few people here that don't think Elliott is way over paid and has not come anywhere close to living up to that contract. You are the ridiculous one here thinking Elliott is worth what he's being paid. Most believe if he didn't have the contract he has he would be gone.
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I promised I wouldn't reply to you again about this...but I just want to point out how you have ZERO reading comprehension. Maybe English isn't your primary language?

I never EVER said "firing a bad coach has a negative impact on players".

That is just stupid to even think someone said it, let alone lie about someone saying it. I said a bad coach can have a negative impact on players. A bad coach that got fired.

Then you claim Murray had 1845 ...as a rookie? No...he did not. he had 850-ish. That's pretty easy to NOT "be in decline".

And then I NEVER EVER claimed Elliot is worth what he's paid.

Look...you have a good day...mkay. I don't argue with liars.

 

[xwalker]

Do we keep Zeke for next season ( not this coming season)? If not do we make a move on Sermon in round 2? Zeke makes a ton of money. Sermon is a cheaper version of Zeke imho. It is an interesting take I think. It bears thought...

Draft Pitts and go to a 3 WR, 2 TE set.

 

[basel90]

Do we keep Zeke for next season ( not this coming season)? If not do we make a move on Sermon in round 2? Zeke makes a ton of money. Sermon is a cheaper version of Zeke imho. It is an interesting take I think. It bears thought...

Never liked picking him and would be happy to see him go . Has talent but has a terrible attitude and lazy work ethic once he got paid .

 

[Sydla]

If you are so concerned about "paying"...then yes...it's hate. Certainly when it's incessant. If you hate "paying" then stop crapping on zeke. Jerry didn't HAVE to do it.

For me..it's hard to take anyone serious that has issues with the paycheck and incessantly beeches at the player. "Obtuse". That isn't the player it's management.

I’ve been very critical of the team for buckling to Elliott. But don’t forget, Elliott held out. So don’t leave him blameless in this.

On the flip side as evidence of why it’s silly to overpay for TBs, Elliott clearly isn’t the same TB he was earlier in his career. He’s not as explosive. He’s not a game changer. He’s regressed faster than guys at other positions, hence why it’s a risk and bad decision making to pay lots of money for a position that can see quick drop offs. Arizona witnessed this with David Johnson. LA went through this with Gurley. Carolina paid McCaffery a ton and he’s been injured.

 

[DuncanIso]

Most of those were in the first 3 years. He's pretty much done now and clearly depends on the Oline like most backs. Nothing special, waste of a 4th pick. Its EXACTLY why you dont take backs.

I think Jerry got his money’s worth.

 

[DuncanIso]

Never liked picking him and would be happy to see him go . Has talent but has a terrible attitude and lazy work ethic once he got paid .

knight and Steele were the starting tackles.

what were we expecting?

 

[DuncanIso]

i have a sneaky suspicion were about to see a 1800+ yard year from zeke...

he had 1300 APY in 2020, with a jacked up line.

I think they want to keep his rushes under 300 though.

I think 1250 rushing and 300 receiving is a good target.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I think Jerry got his money’s worth.

Some fans are still fooled by the pick.

 

[CowboyRoy]

he had 1300 APY in 2020, with a jacked up line.

I think they want to keep his rushes under 300 though.

I think 1250 rushing and 300 receiving is a good target.

He needs lots more td’s. Should have 15 or more in this offense no problem.

 

[gjkoeppen]

I promised I wouldn't reply to you again about this...but I just want to point out how you have ZERO reading comprehension. Maybe English isn't your primary language?

I never EVER said "firing a bad coach has a negative impact on players".

That is just stupid to even think someone said it, let alone lie about someone saying it. I said a bad coach can have a negative impact on players. A bad coach that got fired.

Then you claim Murray had 1845 ...as a rookie? No...he did not. he had 850-ish. That's pretty easy to NOT "be in decline".

And then I NEVER EVER claimed Elliot is worth what he's paid.

Look...you have a good day...mkay. I don't argue with liars.

Talk about a reading and comprehension problem. AT NO T6IME DID I SAY OR IMPLY MURRY AS A ROOKIE RUSHED FOR 1,845 YARDS. I'll quote myself and maybe you'll read it correct and understand it this time, but I'm not holding my breath. "Even the RB Elliott replaced, Murray, led the league with more yards, 1,845." NO PLACE THERE DOES IT SAY WHAT YEAR, LET ALONE HIS ROOKIE SEASON. Careful who you call a liar because that just bit you on your arss.
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[BourbonBalz]

Elliott will have a good bounce back year, assuming the Oline is fairly healthy. Bank on it.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Talk about a reading and comprehension problem. AT NO T6IME DID I SAY OR IMPLY MURRY AS A ROOKIE RUSHED FOR 1,845 YARDS. I'll quote myself and maybe you'll read it correct and understand it this time, but I'm not holding my breath. "Even the RB Elliott replaced, Murray, led the league with more yards, 1,845." NO PLACE THERE DOES IT SAY WHAT YEAR, LET ALONE HIS ROOKIE SEASON. Careful who you call a liar because that just bit you on your arss.
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But that isn't what were were talking about. I made the point about being very hard to "get better" (go look that up for yourself you said it)...when as a rookie you put up 1600+ yards. What...he needs 2000 yards the next year, 2200 the next...2500 the next...to meet your "improve every year" expectations?

With two exceptions, Zeke has had good years. GODell screwed up 3 straight rushing championships because of his feud with Jerry (GODell went against law AND his own female counselor making that decision). Then yes...a down year in a truly *** up year in many many ways.

I mentioned Dak... which you casually neglected to address....as rookie numbers that SHOULD get better. 3500-ish yards is pedestrian...average even. Getting more than that should be expected, like Dalton did a couple times.

I never LIED...You've mushed up the conversation so hard that good points made get buried and a new argument gets started. A stupid way to converse on the internet.

 

[gjkoeppen]

But that isn't what were were talking about. I made the point about being very hard to "get better" (go look that up for yourself you said it)...when as a rookie you put up 1600+ yards. What...he needs 2000 yards the next year, 2200 the next...2500 the next...to meet your "improve every year" expectations?

With two exceptions, Zeke has had good years. GODell screwed up 3 straight rushing championships because of his feud with Jerry (GODell went against law AND his own female counselor making that decision). Then yes...a down year in a truly *** up year in many many ways.

I mentioned Dak... which you casually neglected to address....as rookie numbers that SHOULD get better. 3500-ish yards is pedestrian...average even. Getting more than that should be expected, like Dalton did a couple times.

I never LIED...You've mushed up the conversation so hard that good points made get buried and a new argument gets started. A stupid way to converse on the internet.

I see you didn't address your reading and comprehension problem, but again tried to change what you last said. Stop trying to blame Jones for what goodell did with Elliott and.his domestic violence. That was ALL on Elliott. Then you tried to drag Prescott in on an argument about Elliott. Stop reaching for straws. You you did LIE when you tried to pass off something I never said or implied as something I did say or implied. Don't get upset because you got caught doing EXACTLY what you accused me of doing.
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[aria]

Lol at all this “if the O line is healthy then zeke will do better”. No way?!

Imagine that, a RB will do better if the O line is better. Is there a single RB in the league that this doesn’t apply to? The excuses for this loser never stop with some of you. If he was as “elite” as some of you claim he is, he would have had much better numbers last year with or without a top 10 O line. It’s pretty funny that Barkley (and other RB’s) still managed to put up great numbers behind O lines that were arguably worse than what even we had last year and they never got the O line excuse.

 

[fivetwos]

Lol at all this “if the O line is healthy then zeke will do better”. No way?!

Imagine that, a RB will do better if the O line is better. Is there a single RB in the league that this doesn’t apply to? The excuses for this loser never stop with some of you. If he was as “elite” as some of you claim he is, he would have had much better numbers last year with or without a top 10 O line. It’s pretty funny that Barkley (and other RB’s) still managed to put up great numbers behind O lines that were arguably worse than what even we had last year and they never got the O line excuse.

Yep, he will be great again with huge running lanes.

So would anyone.

Plain, simple and fair....the guy was dynamic early in his career. He no longer is.

There are few, if any, examples of RBs that are great, go into decline, then return to form.

At the same time there are many who were great for a handful of seasons, then dramatically dropped off.

It ought to be clear to everyone from the people who can't stand him to the ones that invested 300 in his jersey amd defend him to the end.....that this player is in sharp decline.

I certainly hope he defies the odds, and he is no doubt capable.

Question is..... does he want it?

He won already in college. He got paid. He is coast mode.