Kyle Pitts vs Patrick Surtain: Who SHOULD be the Pick | Shan & RJ

[kskboys]

I get you, but that doesn't mean I'm going to reach that much for need in the top 10.

Use FA and the rest of the draft to plug holes.

It's not reaching. That's just some language that's being passed around.

Parsons, Surtain, Farley, JOK, none of them would be a reach. I'm not sure this board even understands what a reach is any more. Jaylon was a reach(due to injury). Byron Jones was a reach. Reggie Robinson was a reach.

There simply is not this system where each player is graded and that grade is set in stone. The grades fluxuate and change from expert to expert.

We're not going to have the means to sign FA's to fill holes for at least another year or three. There's a reason we keep signing has beens and borderliners.

 

[Verdict]

I probably take Pitts if he falls, somehow. But I absolutely agree with you that it leaves you chasing positions throughout the draft; especially if you think you still need a viable OT to develop. It is a concern.

For whatever they're worth, the draft simulators seem to leave me with bad choices after I've taken Pitts. Oddly, I don't get the same effect after taking Sewell or Slater. I think it's because taking an OT triggers a bit of a run at the position, pushing down some defensive talent.

When you force a pick, like Taco, you get nothing to show for it and you waste a pick.

 

[kskboys]

When you force a pick, like Taco, you get nothing to show for it and you waste a pick.

Taco wasn't forced. He went where he was slated to go. I wouldn't have taken him as I didn't like him all that much, but he wasn't forced. Byron was forced.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

When you force a pick, like Taco, you get nothing to show for it and you waste a pick.

And if you've traded up to do it, you've wasted two picks.

 

[Verdict]

I probably take Pitts if he falls, somehow. But I absolutely agree with you that it leaves you chasing positions throughout the draft; especially if you think you still need a viable OT to develop. It is a concern.

For whatever they're worth, the draft simulators seem to leave me with bad choices after I've taken Pitts. Oddly, I don't get the same effect after taking Sewell or Slater. I think it's because taking an OT triggers a bit of a run at the position, pushing down some defensive talent.

We would be better off taking an offensive tackle or Pitts at 10 or trading back. That pick is not lending itsself to drafting a defender there.

 

[Verdict]

Taco wasn't forced. He went where he was slated to go. I wouldn't have taken him as I didn't like him all that much, but he wasn't forced. Byron was forced.

Taco was a pure need pick. There were multiple DEs taken in front of him and Taco was what was left. Taco was not the best player on the board when we picked. He wasn’t even the best DE.

That pick had bust written all over it the moment it was made.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

We would be better off taking an offensive tackle or Pitts at 10 or trading back. That pick is not lending itsself to drafting a defender there.

I think it's likely the BPA is an offensive player. I also think we've begun to underrate Surtain a bit. But I like an OT if things play out as anticipated.

 

[phildadon86]

That exactly how it went last year. And the football illiterates tried to blame Dak.

Look above. One of the biggest protagonists wants Pitts. Why I wonder? because when the defense folds again he and the others can blame Dak for losses. If you look at the people pounding the table for offensive players. They are not in Daks corner. lol.

 

[tyke1doe]

I'm torn. We need defense in the worst way, and I like Surtain. I said he is the most ready player of all the defensive players in this draft, and is the safest pick. I just don't see a "bust" with him. But is one defensive player, even Surtain, going to fix this defense? It's going to take multiple defensive picks to fix the defense. So is picking Pitts first and picking defense the rest of the way going to severely hurt efforts to fix the defense? I say no.

The argument for Pitts is that he gives Dak - in whom we have invested $40 million - another weapon, and a special weapon. And with all due respect to those who say we scored 30 points a game, many of those games were when we were behind. We may have come back and beat the Falcons, but remember, we were down 29-7 (or something like that). So much for having all these weapons. I say with Pitts, we add another game-changing option for Dak, one who can create mismatches against LBs and safeties AND open up opportunities for other players like Cooper, Lamb, Gallup and Zeke. We will be virtually indefensible.

The problem with the Cowboys offense wasn't necessarily scoring - if you look at the final score. It was consistently scoring on drives and taking advantage of our offensive fire power BEFORE the end of the game when teams were letting up and letting us score to run down the clock. We had too many drives where we settled for field goals.

Pitts gives us the ability to score consistently so we won't be in a position to put up garbage yardage, field goals and "garbage" TDs.

The one big positive in favor of Surtain is that his style fits playoff football. During the playoffs, refs let corners get a bit more physical. There are fewer PI penalties called. Surtain is a big corner, and I think his size will benefit us in the post season. But ... we have to get to the post-season first.

Give me ... Pitts if he and Surtain are available. But I don't think he will be, and I hope we don't move up to take him.

 

[Stash]

I think these CBs are being artificially elevated because there are no real bell ringers at CB this year. None of these CBs are Deion Sanders level talent.

There hasn't been 'another Deion' before or since he was drafted - in 1989. If that's your bar, never draft a cornerback.

I think in most drafts these CBS would be bottom of the first round in talent level. And I’m leaning toward Surtain not being even the best CB in this class.

It reads to me like you're trying awfully hard to push down their value, while the consensus rankings say otherwise.

 

[Stash]

I'm torn. We need defense in the worst way, and I like Surtain. I said he is the most ready player of all the defensive players in this draft, and is the safest pick. I just don't see a "bust" with him. But is one defensive player, even Surtain, going to fix this defense? It's going to take multiple defensive picks to fix the defense. So is picking Pitts first and picking defense the rest of the way going to severely hurt efforts to fix the defense? I say no.

And I'd say you answered your own question. You said yourself " we need defense in the worst way". How does not using your best draft asset on defense help that?

The argument for Pitts is that he gives Dak - in whom we have invested $40 million - another weapon, and a special weapon. And with all due respect to those who say we scored 30 points a game, many of those games were when we were behind. We may have come back and beat the Falcons, but remember, we were down 29-7 (or something like that). So much for having all these weapons. I say with Pitts, we add another game-changing option for Dak, one who can create mismatches against LBs and safeties AND open up opportunities for other players like Cooper, Lamb, Gallup and Zeke. We will be virtually indefensible.

The problem with the Cowboys offense wasn't necessarily scoring - if you look at the final score. It was consistently scoring on drives and taking advantage of our offensive fire power BEFORE the end of the game when teams were letting up and letting us score to run down the clock. We had too many drives where we settled for field goals.

Pitts gives us the ability to score consistently so we won't be in a position to put up garbage yardage, field goals and "garbage" TDs.

The Cowboys scoring issues were directly related to struggling in short yardage and red zone situations. And it has been for years. They're nit getting the return in what they've invested in their offensive line, running back, and run game. A guy who can't block won't fix that.

The one big positive in favor of Surtain is that his style fits playoff football. During the playoffs, refs let corners get a bit more physical. There are fewer PI penalties called. Surtain is a big corner, and I think his size will benefit us in the post season. But ... we have to get to the post-season first.

Give me ... Pitts if he and Surtain are available. But I don't think he will be, and I hope we don't move up to take him.

For the record, I don't think he will be either so I think this is really a moot point. And I also agree on not trading up. No way.

 

[Cowboyny]

You take the best player over need. Greg Ellis was a good player, but he wasn't close to Randy Moss and his impact in the league.

 

[morasp]

Hypothetically, how would people feel if Pitts fell to pick seven and Detroit said they would switch firsts if we threw in our third round pick at 75?

 

[quickccc]

Says who? Where? You keep saying it.


So nothing in print then?

I’ve also seen and heard plenty of talk about Pitts not being a true TE, and struggling as a blocker and lining up in a true TE role.

I’ve also read all of the horror stories about the “can’t miss” 1st round TE’s that have busted. Nobody seems to want to talk about those things though.

- LOL .are U kiddin' me ? !! . This below is something YOU could've easily done yourself, ..and if you've heard/seen all this and that, plus and minus about Pitts, there's no way you could've been this naïve to the vest from what you're hearing about Pitts - that would suggest to me that you maybe just trying to shrug off any vibe of talk about " generation" hype about Pitts.


https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-florida-kyle-pitts-is-the-best-receiving-prospect-in-the-draft#:~:text=The%20closer%20we%20get%20to%20the%202021%20NFL,is%20also%20the%20best%20receiver%20at%20any%20position.

“ The closer we get to the 2021 NFL Draft, the stronger the consensus is that Florida tight end Kyle Pitts is a truly generational talent. But after watching his tape and seeing him perform at his pro day, I have come to believe that he isn’t just the best tight end in his class, but he is also the best receiver at any position.

The term “generational” gets thrown around a lot these days, and it is fairly ill-defined. But with Pitts, I think we can flesh out more of what it really means, at least as it pertains specifically to him. “


https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/03/24/nfl-mailbag-kyle-pitts-generational-talent-draft-prospects

https://detroitjockcity.com/2021/03/31/detroit-lions-kyle-pitts-generational-talent/

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2021/02/04/nfl-mock-draft-bengals-kyle-pitts-generational-talent/


https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/dallas-cowboys-tight-end-kyle-pitts-nfl-2021-draft-jerry-jones

“ Would Dallas take the generational talent Pitts if he's still available when the Cowboys make their selection? “

 

[Stash]

- LOL .are U kiddin' me ? !! . This below is something YOU could've easily done yourself, ..and if you've heard/seen all this and that, plus and minus about Pitts, there's no way you could've been this naïve to the vest from what you're hearing about Pitts - that would suggest to me that you maybe just trying to shrug off any vibe of talk about " generation" hype about Pitts.


https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-florida-kyle-pitts-is-the-best-receiving-prospect-in-the-draft#:~:text=The%20closer%20we%20get%20to%20the%202021%20NFL,is%20also%20the%20best%20receiver%20at%20any%20position.

“ The closer we get to the 2021 NFL Draft, the stronger the consensus is that Florida tight end Kyle Pitts is a truly generational talent. But after watching his tape and seeing him perform at his pro day, I have come to believe that he isn’t just the best tight end in his class, but he is also the best receiver at any position.

The term “generational” gets thrown around a lot these days, and it is fairly ill-defined. But with Pitts, I think we can flesh out more of what it really means, at least as it pertains specifically to him. “


https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/03/24/nfl-mailbag-kyle-pitts-generational-talent-draft-prospects

https://detroitjockcity.com/2021/03/31/detroit-lions-kyle-pitts-generational-talent/

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2021/02/04/nfl-mock-draft-bengals-kyle-pitts-generational-talent/


https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/dallas-cowboys-tight-end-kyle-pitts-nfl-2021-draft-jerry-jones

“ Would Dallas take the generational talent Pitts if he's still available when the Cowboys make their selection? “

Thanks, that is just the kind of information that I was looking for, in all honesty, I had not seen such descriptions and that's why I asked.

 

[quickccc]

Is Pitts worth another 2-3 years of a crapp D? That's the real question.

the NFL draft is more than just one round, right ? .. that doesn't mean you give up defense with guys like Diggs, Gregory,Gallimore can be had in 2nd and 3rd rounds.

 

[JD_KaPow]

Is Pitts worth another 2-3 years of a crapp D? That's the real question.

It's one pick. One guy is not going to determine the next 2-3 years of our D.

 

[quickccc]

Huh???? Surtain has started since his freshman season at Alabama. He has went against the top receivers in college football since his freshman year. I remember watching him in the National semi final holding his own against CeeDee and Kyler Murray. Go YouTube it brother. No corner in the last decade have as much tape against quality competition that Surtain has.

and yet why isn't Surtain still seen as a top 3 or even 5 overall talent ?

 

[baltcowboy]

and yet why isn't Surtain still seen as a top 3 or even 5 overall talent ?

I bet he is top 5 on the Cowboys board and that is all I am worried about.

 

[quickccc]

Taco wasn't forced. He went where he was slated to go. I wouldn't have taken him as I didn't like him all that much, but he wasn't forced. Byron was forced.

Taco was indeed forced, Cowboys initially had Charlton pegged as a 2nd round projection, but they were so paranoid about the DEs going off the board by the time they were up in the 2nd round
that they decided to reach for DE edge rusher in the first round.

Problem was McClay group had already pegged and graded TJ Watt as a better edge rusher prospect than Taco, but were so heavily influenced by Marinelli to go with length, size and scheme fit
that rid Watt out of the consideration picture.

It's unfortunately recorded history to whom we decided to go.