Twitter: Refs missed a safety call on Arizona

[RonnieT24]

Kinda like Ramseys exaggerated flailing against Gallup last season in the first game? Seemed to work for him. Cost us the game.

Or Chandler Jones's exaggerated flailing as Tyron is driving him to the turf in this very same game.. This is what gets me.. When it happens to the Cowboys.. it's okay.. But these people want us to believe they're Cowboy fans yet they see everything through the lens of "if it hurts the Cowboys then it was a good call." F --- that.

 

[Ranching]

THIS is a hold.

Et tu, brute?

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Come on. That is in no way similar. We've reached the point of reaching for things now. What you continue to ignore along with the Schultz clear hold is that Lawrence used a rip technique. There's an exception in the holding rule for a reason when that is used. If the OL pulled back on Lawrence then it would be a hold but he keeps the same grip he had in the initial block and kept it through Lawrence's rip and let go after a shove, not a pull back. He wasn't beat from jump like your video and let go after Lawrence used the rip. Not a material restriction in any way, shape, or form. I knew there'd be a few after I posted the videos and CZ never disappoints.

Just so I’m clear, is your argument that A.) there was no hold at all because Lawrence wasn’t materially restricted? Or B.) there was a hold but it’s negated by Lawrence using a rip move?

You’ve now made both of these arguments in this thread, but both of these things can’t be true.

 

[baltcowboy]

Two refs staring at a blatant hold (more blatant than ours) in the endzone...safety.

I don’t want to be that guy but I see why the players went off on the refs during the press conference. Kyler with help from the referees is unstoppable. If they call a safety on that play the whole complexion off the game changes.

 

[hollaback23]

Yeah, sorry, but the OL is allowed to kick him out wide, which he did when Lawrence used his rip move which again affords an exception to holding even if it looks like holding (see the rule). It was not a push (or block "from behind" as the rule states). His hand on the shoulder was on him the whole time and let go once Lawrence turned the corner. The other hand did press on Lawrence's back but again, put in that position due to Lawrence's rip move. This was clearly not material restriction. Again, compare to Schultz. Night and day. No one addresses it.

Lawrence is already past the tackle. He grabbed and pulled him. It's clear as day holding. If you called the Schultz play a hold then Lawrence was hold also.

 

[Sydla]

Lawrence is already past the tackle. He grabbed and pulled him. It's clear as day holding. If you called the Schultz play a hold then Lawrence was hold also.

The Schultz play was worse. That being said, they called a ticky tack hold on Collins in the Cards game so at the very least, it would be nice if they showed some consistency here.

 

[Doomsday101]

Too bad the game is not played in freeze frame. I do think they could have called a hold, I also know camera angles show different views, for instance would a side shot of that freeze frame who the ball was over the goal line? Often times you need to see 2 or 3 angles to get a clear view on a play.

 

[RonnieT24]

The Schultz play was worse. That being said, they called a ticky tack hold on Collins in the Cards game so at the very least, it would be nice if they showed some consistency here.

That's all people are looking for.. If it's a penalty when I do it then it damn well better be a penalty when you do it. Give me that and I will be fine.. But game after game we don't get that. DBs are all over our receivers 30 yards downfield and we rarely see a flag.. The only reason they called the PI on the one that got intercepted was because it got intercepted .. I think if that ball falls incomplete they don't throw the flag.. That's the problem.. these refs are waiting for the outcome before throwing flags too damn much. The flag on holding call against Schultz came out when Zeke was 5 yards past the guy.. The PI on Wilson came in seemed like 10 seconds after the play was over. Yet the guy couldn't wait to rule Edmunds down when he fumbled.. Came running in emphatically like he saw it the whole time.. when in reality there was no way he saw it.. Garbage..

 

[Zman5]

No. A block from behind is not allowed. That wasn't a block from behind. Again, what you ignore along with the Schultz hold is Lawrence did a rip move. When that happens, "holding will not be called" as it "puts an offensive player in a position that would normally be holding." Those are words from the rule. That's what put the OL in that position and it clearly says that holding will not be called when it's done. Again, you can push as part of a block. Show me where pushing is not allowed. The Schultz hold shows you what material restriction looks like. This was clearly nowhere near it and why no one wants to talk about that one. Because it proves my point about material restriction.

Again the OLineman is pushing from behind after DLaw runs by him. That is not allowed. Only time a push from behind is allowed is if the defender gives up their back as they are being blocked.
And what does Schultz hold have anything to do with DLaw getting hold? And your claim that ""holding will not be called" if a dip a rip move is used is not true. That's not in the rule book.
By rule, offensive players are not allowed to grab onto anypart of their opponent's body or equipment. Just because most do it and gets away with it, doesn't mean it's allowed according to the rule book.

 

[MarcusRock]

Just so I’m clear, is your argument that A.) there was no hold at all because Lawrence wasn’t materially restricted? Or B.) there was a hold but it’s negated by Lawrence using a rip move?

You’ve now made both of these arguments in this thread, but both of these things can’t be true.

I've said several times that there was no material restriction. This is true even if you ignore the rip move (that's the point of the Schultz comparison that people want to avoid). But since Lawrence did the rip on top of things, even if you want to call the OL's hand on the shoulder "material," which it's not, the rip move only bolsters the case that holding shouldn't be called because of the position it puts the OL in. That is why it exists. If there's two forces against calling a hold, you don't call a hold. Refs suck, but no need to pile on.

Again, people need to know the rules they rail against before knee-jerking that "we wuz robbed" and engaging in denial olympics. Same for the Dez no-catch where people ignored the portion of the rule that applied.

 

[MarcusRock]

Lawrence is already past the tackle. He grabbed and pulled him. It's clear as day holding. If you called the Schultz play a hold then Lawrence was hold also.

You don't grab someone you already have grip on from executing your block. I'd go into the rip move thing but you'll have to read that elsewhere because I've explained it clearly for those that want to know. Most don't. I get it.

 

[ESisback]

So grabbing a guys shoulder pads after he's gotten by you is not holding?

What universe do you live in?

The one that always argues against the Cowboys and for opponents.

 

[MarcusRock]

And your claim that ""holding will not be called" if a dip a rip move is used is not true. That's not in the rule book.

If you didn't even go into the rulebook to look it up to see that it IS there, that tells me all I need to know. I've done nothing but quote from the rulebook and still folks run past it to say what they "see" without countering with what's in the rules to explain their position or just avoid the inconvenient parts of the rule altogether. I post video to see these theatrics and it seldom disappoints.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Again the OLineman is pushing from behind after DLaw runs by him. That is not allowed. Only time a push from behind is allowed is if the defender gives up their back as they are being blocked.
And what does Schultz hold have anything to do with DLaw getting hold? And your claim that ""holding will not be called" if a dip a rip move is used is not true. That's not in the rule book.
By rule, offensive players are not allowed to grab onto anypart of their opponent's body or equipment. Just because most do it and gets away with it, doesn't mean it's allowed according to the rule book.

Rutroh….

(i) if, during a defensive charge, a defensive player uses a “rip” technique that puts an offensive player in a position that would normally be holding. Exception: Holding will be called if the defender's feet are taken away from him by the offensive player's action.

 

[MarcusRock]

The one that always argues against the Cowboys and for opponents.

It's called whine-countering, bro. Get it right. By the way, you want some of this? Been a long while. Now you just snipe from the sidelines like other mean girl also-rans. I miss the beatdowns and can't quit you. Lol.

 

[Zman5]

If you didn't even go into the rulebook to look it up to see that it IS there, that tells me all I need to know. I've done nothing but quote from the rulebook and still folks run past it to say what they "see" without countering with what's in the rules to explain their position or just avoid the inconvenient parts of the rule altogether. I post video to see these theatrics and it seldom disappoints.

I posted the NFL holding rule on this thread. Why don't you show us where in the NFL rule book it says "If a defender uses a dip and rip move, holding will not be called on the offense"? I'll be waiting.

Dip and rip move is used all the time by a pass rusher. If that rule is in place like you claim, no pass rushers will use that move as it will give free holding play for the olinemen.

 

[JIMMYBUFFETT]

Holding...#79 offense. Still, video, doesn't matter. Unless you're reading braille it's impossible not to see it.

 

[AshyLarry06]

I already answered you. Not material. The OL didn't jerk him or twist him or pull him down. He did have a hand on him which was there the entire time from his block. And he let go once Lawrence turned the corner. That's how you properly avoid a hold. The Schultz play is relevant because he didn't let go and restricted his guy from where he wanted to go. The OL here did not. Clear difference and why no one wants to reference it. Exactly why I posted it.

The OL GRABBED his shoulder pad/jersey and restricted him. Whether that is a slight restriction or not, the fact of the matter is that he still grabbed the jersey and tried to restrict him. Tank Lawrence is a beast and ran through it when it probably wouldve better served him and the team to maybe flail a little bit and try to sell it more. If you look at the rules that you posted earlier, aside from #2 which is being twisted, jerked, or pulled, the FIRST guideline of holding is a GRABBING or holding of the jersey, restricting their movement. Based off of this part of the rule, this play should have been called holding. For some reason, you are fixating on the "material" part and idk why because its not that complicated. Simply put- the tackle grabbed D-Law and held him, and regardless of whether his grab was very restrictive or not, it was still a grab, which in the NFL, should be called as a holding penalty.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Kinda like Ramseys exaggerated flailing against Gallup last season in the first game? Seemed to work for him. Cost us the game.

Yeah, thanks for proving my point!

 

[Zman5]

Rutroh….

(i) if, during a defensive charge, a defensive player uses a “rip” technique that puts an offensive player in a position that would normally be holding. Exception: Holding will be called if the defender's feet are taken away from him by the offensive player's action.

That is not same as what he said. He said when dip and rip is used "holding will not be called" as it "puts an offensive player in a position that would normally be holding."
Implying holding will never be called if dip and rip is used.