Why the "Dak is elite" narrative is so flawed

Mr_437

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Dak broke some franchise records in 2021. I'm not here to deny that. What I will deny, though, is the significance and relevance of those records.

QB stats in 2021 are very disproportionately inflated, even compared to ~15 years ago. Take a look at this:

In the 2005-2006 season

  • 11 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (C. Palmer).
  • Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.
In the 2006-2007 season
  • 10 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (P. Manning).
  • Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

"Greatness" is relative to the the era of NFL that a QB plays. Style of play and pass-happy rules in 2021 makes the NFL a drastically different league than it was even 15 years ago.

In the 2021-2022 season
  • 19 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. 9 threw for 30+TDs.
  • 6 QBs threw for over 4,500 yards. 10 QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.
And for those who will invariably try to "get me" by pointing out the 17 game schedule this year, more QBs threw for 30+ TDs in 2020 than 2021 and more QBs threw for over 4,000 yards in 2020 than 2021.

If he were teleported to 2005 and became the Cowboys starting QB, Dak would throw for 19 TDs and ~3,400 yards. That's just the reality. He'd be the equivalent of Kerry Collins or Gus Frerotte. A $40 million Gus Frerotte LOL!

People need to stop conflating gaudy passing stats to greatness. Greatness is much more nuanced than the # of passing TDs a guy has. Great players have "it" when the pressure is on. Dak doesn't.

Watch this video.. it summarizes what I'm saying very well


Good post. Everyone knows Dak isn't elite at anything good. The league changed the rules making it easier for mediocre QBs to carve out a decent career, and trick some fans into thinking their better than they actually are. You have to watch the damn game s/o to Randy Galloway.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Good post. Everyone knows Dak isn't elite at anything good. The league changed the rules making it easier for mediocre QBs to carve out a decent career, and trick some fans into thinking their better than they actually are. You have to watch the damn game s/o to Randy Galloway.
Anybody that quotes Randy Galloway lost any credibility they think they had lol…..where are the mediocre quarterbacks putting up 37 touchdowns?
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Dak is a top 10 quarterback in the league with potential to be better. You guys can laugh now because he struggled after the first 7 games of the season but make no mistake y’all will look silly when this ship gets right…..
 

Mr_437

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Anybody that quotes Randy Galloway lost any credibility they think they had lol…..where are the mediocre quarterbacks putting up 37 touchdowns?
What's wrong with "watch the damn game"? What are you talking about lol? Most of y'all bring up stats, but if you watch the game those stats don't look so good.

I saw a mediocre QB the last month of the season in Dallas... the ARI or SF game revealed that.
 

Aviano90

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Dak is a top 10 quarterback in the league with potential to be better. You guys can laugh now because he struggled after the first 7 games of the season but make no mistake y’all will look silly when this ship gets right…..
Well, he is already making people look silly, but he does have a few more years to try and make his critics look silly. That’s the beauty of these arguments. His career will play out and we get to see which side turns out to be right.

Of course, it he wins anything if significance now, it will be more impressive because the team will have a more difficult time retaining the talent surrounding him, so he will have to carry more of the load.
 

America's Cowboy

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never claimed that, but carry on. You can cherry pick specific years of great talent, but on the whole, Romo played with much less weaponry than Dak ever has.
You're full of it!

In 2014 alone, Romo played with a young and more talented Oline when they were in their prime, hence why DeMarco Murray rushed for almost 1,900 yards in 2014. Look at the talent and production at every position on Offense around Romo. Definitely much better than Dak has had.

Screenshot-20220206-033430-Chrome.jpg


This is not including the 2006, 2007 (with a franchise record 13 Pro Bowlers on that team), 2008 and 2009 seasons when Romo was surrounded with very good talent and better than Dak has. But I only compared the 2014 season to Dak's tenure (2016 - 2021) because some of those 2014 players were and still are playing under Dak, albeit way much older and past their primes.

So stop talking out of your rear end and making up lies about how Romo played with much less weaponry than Dak, when the visual statistical records show that is not true. It's quite the opposite.

Unbelievable how so many lie around here just to hate on Dak.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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What's wrong with "watch the damn game"? What are you talking about lol? Most of y'all bring up stats, but if you watch the game those stats don't look so good.

I saw a mediocre QB the last month of the season in Dallas... the ARI or SF game revealed that.
So it’s only watch the damn game for his bad games but not his first 7 games of the season?
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Well, he is already making people look silly, but he does have a few more years to try and make his critics look silly. That’s the beauty of these arguments. His career will play out and we get to see which side turns out to be right.

Of course, it he wins anything if significance now, it will be more impressive because the team will have a more difficult time retaining the talent surrounding him, so he will have to carry more of the load.
I mean he’s been in the league 6 seasons. You know what he is and what he isn’t. That’s where the disagreement comes in. I just can’t trust the opinion of someone who’s seen this guy for 6 years and determined he’s a bad or average quarterback. Now if you want to say the guy is not elite that’s fair. But to try and convince people he’s bad? It’s a reach.
 

Cboyfan4ever

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I mean i understand the changing of the times/rules/Mindset of the nfl, i really do.

But you are not dogging the qb for finishing 4th in TDs, 3rd in rating, and 7th in yards, 3rd in completion percentage.

Those are measured the same against all of the "OMGz ELITE" qbs in the league right now.
With the exception of Tampa and NE those #’s were accumulated against subpar competition.But, where were those#’s against better competition when we really needed it?By the end of those games his #’s may have looked ok, but like a lot of our penalties, it’s the timing of those #’s.Accumulated lots of those #’s when already down big against soft prevent type D.But, in crunch time when we really need it he pulled a disappearing act.
 

Cboyfan4ever

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I mean he’s been in the league 6 seasons. You know what he is and what he isn’t. That’s where the disagreement comes in. I just can’t trust the opinion of someone who’s seen this guy for 6 years and determined he’s a bad or average quarterback. Now if you want to say the guy is not elite that’s fair. But to try and convince people he’s bad? It’s a reach.
By no means is he elite, but he is a top 10 QB.
 

Hadenough

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Dak is a top 10 quarterback in the league with potential to be better. You guys can laugh now because he struggled after the first 7 games of the season but make no mistake y’all will look silly when this ship gets right…..
Dak can right the ship against the NFC east but when Denver comes to town he is gonna put his tail between his legs and crawl into a corner.
 

Diehardblues

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You're full of it!

In 2014 alone, Romo played with a young and more talented Oline when they were in their prime, hence why DeMarco Murray rushed for almost 1,900 yards in 2014. Look at the talent and production at every position on Offense around Romo. Definitely much better than Dak has had.

Screenshot-20220206-033430-Chrome.jpg


This is not including the 2006, 2007 (with a franchise record 13 Pro Bowlers on that team), 2008 and 2009 seasons when Romo was surrounded with very good talent and better than Dak has. But I only compared the 2014 season to Dak's tenure (2016 - 2021) because some of those 2014 players were and still are playing under Dak, albeit way much older and past their primes.

So stop talking out of your rear end and making up lies about how Romo played with much less weaponry than Dak, when the visual statistical records show that is not true. It's quite the opposite.

Unbelievable how so many lie around here just to hate on Dak.
I’d agree. There has been enough talent around both of these QB’s for more success. Unfortunately our offenses in both eras have had to in most cases carry a below average defense .

And neither of these QB’s were enough in the playoffs to overcome these weaknesses nor overcome facing better QB’s and defenses.
 

Ranched

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I saw a mediocre QB the last month of the season in Dallas... the ARI or SF game revealed that.
Sorry you missed the other medicore quarterback's that ended their seasons in LA & KC. Elite quarterbacks are a thing of the past when they dominated the NFL. Every so-called Elite quarterback is either retired or watching the SB from their coach.

Rodgers is the biggest playoff choke artist in the league. He's done too.
 

Diehardblues

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Romo and Dak weren’t our biggest weaknesses. But not strong enough to overcome our other weaknesses.
 

Hadenough

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I’d agree. There has been enough talent around both of these QB’s for more success. Unfortunately our offenses in both eras have had to in most cases carry a below average defense .

And neither of these QB’s were enough in the playoffs to overcome these weaknesses nor overcome facing better QB’s and defenses.
But this year Dallas had the defense everyone has been crying for. Heck Anthony Brown pretty much accounted for 7 of Dallas 21 points. Reality is Dak put up 14 which just isn't good.
 

Diehardblues

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And so did the SF LA game. You're point?! Elite quarterbacks are a thing of the past when they dominated the NFL. Every so-called Elite quarterback is watching the SB from their coach. Rodgers is the biggest playoff choke artist in the league. He's done too.
Elite QB’s still provide the easiest path to building a great team and those teams generally stay on top longer. But they can only go so far without a better team around them.

The Cap era is all about Elite QB’s. They are the one constant a franchise retains throughout their career in most cases. They have won or been to about 75% of the Super Bowls this Cap era.

I think we’ll see that Burroughs will be one of these Elite QB’s and Stafford is closer to Elite but on a horrid team most of his career.
 

Diehardblues

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But this year Dallas had the defense everyone has been crying for. Heck Anthony Brown pretty much accounted for 7 of Dallas 21 points. Reality is Dak put up 14 which just isn't good.
No, this defense was still below average. It led the league in turnovers. But when we didn’t create turnovers it failed us and came up short.

And Dak and our offense too often struggled against better defenses. Both were similar stories from recent years.
 

basel90

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Dak broke some franchise records in 2021. I'm not here to deny that. What I will deny, though, is the significance and relevance of those records.

QB stats in 2021 are very disproportionately inflated, even compared to ~15 years ago. Take a look at this:

In the 2005-2006 season

  • 11 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (C. Palmer).
  • Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.
In the 2006-2007 season
  • 10 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (P. Manning).
  • Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

"Greatness" is relative to the the era of NFL that a QB plays. Style of play and pass-happy rules in 2021 makes the NFL a drastically different league than it was even 15 years ago.

In the 2021-2022 season
  • 19 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. 9 threw for 30+TDs.
  • 6 QBs threw for over 4,500 yards. 10 QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.
And for those who will invariably try to "get me" by pointing out the 17 game schedule this year, more QBs threw for 30+ TDs in 2020 than 2021 and more QBs threw for over 4,000 yards in 2020 than 2021.

If he were teleported to 2005 and became the Cowboys starting QB, Dak would throw for 19 TDs and ~3,400 yards. That's just the reality. He'd be the equivalent of Kerry Collins or Gus Frerotte. A $40 million Gus Frerotte LOL!

People need to stop conflating gaudy passing stats to greatness. Greatness is much more nuanced than the # of passing TDs a guy has. Great players have "it" when the pressure is on. Dak doesn't.

Watch this video.. it summarizes what I'm saying very well


Very true . It is a pass friendly league now and 4 to 5k yard season a are so common Especially if you have a top OL and receivers around you . Anyone comparing AB stats now to the previous era is delusional .
Everyone knows Dak is not elite but is paid very much like it . It is a snow . Jerry’s show .
 
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