Why the "Dak is elite" narrative is so flawed

[SteveTheCowboy]

I’m saying that all-time great QBs put up less gaudy stats in those days. Dak threw for more TDs in 2021 than guys like Favre, Manning, Brees, Brady, Big Ben, etc in 2005 or 2006. And according to many on here, Dak threw for more than those guys, so he must be better than them…

Basically, I’m trying to say that we need to keep proper perspective on what constitutes greatness and consider the significance of what the numbers objectively mean.

Your argument does suggest stats can be deceiving. If you just look at the surface....stats can prove or disprove almost anything you want especially if you are clever and/or narrow minded.

Dig down though....and a different story can emerge.

 

[elcowboi]

Dak broke some franchise records in 2021. I'm not here to deny that. What I will deny, though, is the significance and relevance of those records.

QB stats in 2021 are very disproportionately inflated, even compared to ~15 years ago. Take a look at this:

In the 2005-2006 season

• 11 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (C. Palmer).
• Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

In the 2006-2007 season

• 10 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (P. Manning).
• Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

"Greatness" is relative to the the era of NFL that a QB plays. Style of play and pass-happy rules in 2021 makes the NFL a drastically different league than it was even 15 years ago.

In the 2021-2022 season

• 19 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. 9 threw for 30+TDs.
• 6 QBs threw for over 4,500 yards. 10 QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

And for those who will invariably try to "get me" by pointing out the 17 game schedule this year, more QBs threw for 30+ TDs in 2020 than 2021 and more QBs threw for over 4,000 yards in 2020 than 2021.

If he were teleported to 2005 and became the Cowboys starting QB, Dak would throw for 19 TDs and ~3,400 yards. That's just the reality. He'd be the equivalent of Kerry Collins or Gus Frerotte. A $40 million Gus Frerotte LOL!

People need to stop conflating gaudy passing stats to greatness. Greatness is much more nuanced than the # of passing TDs a guy has. Great players have "it" when the pressure is on. Dak doesn't.

Watch this video.. it summarizes what I'm saying very well

Does it really matter???? The only constant is Jerry. Bring in another QB. I'm all for it. I just don't trust they would be worth a damn as long as the GM stays the same. He'll find a way to mess things up.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

You're full of it!

In 2014 alone, Romo played with a young and more talented Oline when they were in their prime, hence why DeMarco Murray rushed for almost 1,900 yards in 2014. Look at the talent and production at every position on Offense around Romo. Definitely much better than Dak has had.

This is not including the 2006, 2007 (with a franchise record 13 Pro Bowlers on that team), 2008 and 2009 seasons when Romo was surrounded with very good talent and better than Dak has. But I only compared the 2014 season to Dak's tenure (2016 - 2021) because some of those 2014 players were and still are playing under Dak, albeit way much older and past their primes.

So stop talking out of your rear end and making up lies about how Romo played with much less weaponry than Dak, when the visual statistical records show that is not true. It's quite the opposite.

Unbelievable how so many lie around here just to hate on Dak.

What is "unbelievable".....is you cherry picking years of Romo career to prove your narrative. You never mention the likes of Deon Anderson, Tashard Choice, Jesse Holly, Sam Hurd, Kevin Olgltree...just for starters. Why not? Because it wouldn't suit your argument.

Meanwhile Dak walks into a 2016 team with a ridiculous amount of #1 picks, Dez and not washed up Witten.

Look...I think this ridiculous argument is stupid....but if we're gonna do it....try to have SOME objectivity and levity. Tony made some very average players look pretty good. Miles Austin?

Let's give him SOME credit for that.

The people you are beeching about.....well you look the same as them just on the opposite end. If nothing else you lie by omission. "Cherry picking" what suits your narrative.

 

[MajesticRey]

I don’t think anyone here believes Dak is elite. If they do, they’re a small, incorrect minority.

 

[DFWJC]

I don't like ESPNs QBR because the metrics aren't made public, from what I remember. They also had Dak Prescott at 4 in 2017. Anyone here who watched him his sophomore season knows he was not 4th best in the league. I don't disagree with him being 11th best this season, but I still question how they got to that.

ESPN's QBR gets some very strange outcomes.

 

[Cmac]

......in part because the "Team is elite" narrative is flawed and skewed.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Dak can right the ship against the NFC east but when Denver comes to town he is gonna put his tail between his legs and crawl into a corner.

Like the head coach and team did?

 

[America's Cowboy]

What is "unbelievable".....is you cherry picking years of Romo career to prove your narrative. You never mention the likes of Deon Anderson, Tashard Choice, Jesse Holly, Sam Hurd, Kevin Olgltree...just for starters. Why not? Because it wouldn't suit your argument.

Meanwhile Dak walks into a 2016 team with a ridiculous amount of #1 picks, Dez and not washed up Witten.

Look...I think this ridiculous argument is stupid....but if we're gonna do it....try to have SOME objectivity and levity. Tony made some very average players look pretty good. Miles Austin?

Let's give him SOME credit for that.

The people you are beeching about.....well you look the same as them just on the opposite end. If nothing else you lie by omission. "Cherry picking" what suits your narrative.

Shut your biased Romo loving mouth. All you do is bash Dak while defending Romo, so your opinion holds no water. You're so guilty that you have to change a letter or two in certain words in order to cuss at me. Truth hurts, huh, biased one?

 

[America's Cowboy]

I don’t think anyone here believes Dak is elite. If they do, they’re a small, incorrect minority.

Dak is in the Top 8. That's elite enough for any team. The only ones who can't handle that truth is you Dak haters. Period.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Shut your biased Romo loving mouth. All you do is bash Dak while defending Romo, so your opinion holds no water. You're so guilty that you have to change a letter or two in certain words in order to cuss at me. Truth hurts, huh, biased one?

Show me where I "bashed Dak".

Like everyone else...you won't. Because I don't. I bash Zeke WAY more than Dak. I don't really spend a lot of time bashing ANYONE, really. Except Moore.

So you go to insults instead of any form for conversation about my point. Truth hurts INDEED.


Here's the kind of liar you are...I changed ONE word...NOT "words". And beeching is your line I crossed? Wow....dude.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Show me where I "bashed Dak".

Like everyone else...you won't. Because I don't. I bash Zeke WAY more than Dak. I don't really spend a lot of time bashing ANYONE, really. Except Moore.

So you go to insults instead of any form for conversation about my point. Truth hurts INDEED.


Here's the kind of liar you are...I changed ONE word...NOT "words". And beeching is your line I crossed? Wow....dude.

You bash Dak all of the time. Don't backpeddle now. Own it. And, yes, nice choice of a word, even though you deliberately misspelled it so it could pass the forum bad words blocker. Says a lot.

 

[Ken]

What is "unbelievable".....is you cherry picking years of Romo career to prove your narrative. You never mention the likes of Deon Anderson, Tashard Choice, Jesse Holly, Sam Hurd, Kevin Olgltree...just for starters. Why not? Because it wouldn't suit your argument.

Meanwhile Dak walks into a 2016 team with a ridiculous amount of #1 picks, Dez and not washed up Witten.

Look...I think this ridiculous argument is stupid....but if we're gonna do it....try to have SOME objectivity and levity. Tony made some very average players look pretty good. Miles Austin?

Let's give him SOME credit for that.

The people you are beeching about.....well you look the same as them just on the opposite end. If nothing else you lie by omission. "Cherry picking" what suits your narrative.

Yes...Dak walked into a team fresh off the #4 pick in the draft.

So lucky....

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

You bash Dak all of the time. Don't backpeddle now. Own it. And, yes, nice choice of a word, even though you deliberately misspelled it so it could pass the forum bad words blocker. Says a lot.

If I "bash him all the time"...you'd think it would be easy for you to give me an example.

I';d rather be a letter changer than a straight up liar like you did. It says a lot.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Yes...Dak walked into a team fresh off the #4 pick in the draft.

So lucky....

No #1's on the O-line, eh?

Mkay.

Most starting rookie QB's don't get a team like that. Ask Joe.

 

[Cboyfan4ever]

Yes...Dak walked into a team fresh off the #4 pick in the draft.

So lucky....

Dak walked into a pretty good situation in 2016.Zeke carried that team.Give it to Zeke 25-30 times a game,dink and dunk, & just don’t turn the ball over.Now he has certainly improved since 2016, but that was a dream situation for a rookie.

 

[jwooten15]

Shut your biased Romo loving mouth. All you do is bash Dak while defending Romo, so your opinion holds no water. You're so guilty that you have to change a letter or two in certain words in order to cuss at me. Truth hurts, huh, biased one?

None of what he said is wrong, though. Someone says something you don’t like and you try to demean and silence them? Damn, you’d be a great politician.

Dak is a pretty good QB. But he is entirely too reliant on conditions around him to be smooth. And whether you want to admit it or not, Romo dealt with terrible offensive lines and even worse defenses for a good amount of his career and he made scrub WRs look phenomenal (Austin, Robinson, etc). Dak does not have that quality and he’s being paid the second highest amount of money in the history of the league.

It really shouldn’t trigger you when people don’t like the return on investment there.

 

[Ken]

Dak walked into a pretty good situation in 2016.Zeke carried that team.Give it to Zeke 25-30 times a game,dink and dunk, & just don’t turn the ball over.Now he has certainly improved since 2016, but that was a dream situation for a rookie.

Yes..."dink and dunk" for 8 yards per completion.

 

[blueblood70]

Dak broke some franchise records in 2021. I'm not here to deny that. What I will deny, though, is the significance and relevance of those records.

QB stats in 2021 are very disproportionately inflated, even compared to ~15 years ago. Take a look at this:

In the 2005-2006 season

• 11 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (C. Palmer).
• Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

In the 2006-2007 season

• 10 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (P. Manning).
• Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

"Greatness" is relative to the the era of NFL that a QB plays. Style of play and pass-happy rules in 2021 makes the NFL a drastically different league than it was even 15 years ago.

In the 2021-2022 season

• 19 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. 9 threw for 30+TDs.
• 6 QBs threw for over 4,500 yards. 10 QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

And for those who will invariably try to "get me" by pointing out the 17 game schedule this year, more QBs threw for 30+ TDs in 2020 than 2021 and more QBs threw for over 4,000 yards in 2020 than 2021.

If he were teleported to 2005 and became the Cowboys starting QB, Dak would throw for 19 TDs and ~3,400 yards. That's just the reality. He'd be the equivalent of Kerry Collins or Gus Frerotte. A $40 million Gus Frerotte LOL!

People need to stop conflating gaudy passing stats to greatness. Greatness is much more nuanced than the # of passing TDs a guy has. Great players have "it" when the pressure is on. Dak doesn't.

Watch this video.. it summarizes what I'm saying very well

first off not many think Hes elite, hes not.

however many trying to downplay his 6-10 ranking is insanity. Hes very good to great franchise qb and for sure top 10 and all your numbers provided proof pf this his ranking are ALL within 6-7 area and his stats while a bit inflated due to our division they are nearly identical to josh allens numbers.
.so please stop downplaying Daks actual ranking and where he belongs.

the team is letting down dak more then the other way around. Regardless of his salary's, hes not the issue here..

these dak hate threads and both Romo and dak so underappreciated and hated on without mentioning other player ie team concept and coaching issues that created these droughts in the payoffs. Was obviously not dak fault we lost this game hes played well in his other 3 game like great and we still lost 2 of them much like Allen couldn't have played better why is hes at home, his defense and late coaching clock decisions, thats why,

its a Team game we need the defense, OL, coaching all to come together for oncer to win.

the blaming the qb is popular, blaming players with big contracts even mor popular but rolling with the popular opinion is what fans around the sports world BLEIVRE makes them look cool agreeing with sports idiots.

its not cool and its an ignorant take this isnt track and field nor individual sports or even basketball, its tough TEAM sport and weve seen over the last decade or so good qbs waste their careers here for many reasons outside their own play.

no dak didnt play great because he couldn't overcome 14 penalties, ol provided no holes for the run game, when they weren't holding daks running for his life with 4 man rush! ,. play calls were suspect and defense whole they figured it out in the second half were allowing 4 straight scores in the first and then jump offsides 3 times in the 2nd half to extend drives and allow the 93ers to eat more cock.

somehow that is all on dak because he cant play an uneven game of 1sts and 20 most of the game? have bigger plays called back over penalties or play another positions,

 

[Ken]

None of what he said is wrong, though. Someone says something you don’t like and you try to demean and silence them? Damn, you’d be a great politician.

Dak is a pretty good QB. But he is entirely too reliant on conditions around him to be smooth. And whether you want to admit it or not, Romo dealt with terrible offensive lines and even worse defenses for a good amount of his career and he made scrub WRs look phenomenal (Austin, Robinson, etc). Dak does not have that quality and he’s being paid the second highest amount of money in the history of the league.

It really shouldn’t trigger you when people don’t like the return on investment there.

Austin was a scrub wr???

Seriously?

Robinson had a great year one year from the slot...but didn't we just witness our 4th wr have 600 yards and 6 tds?

Now all of the sudden Dalton Schultze is Gronk right???

 

[America's Cowboy]

If I "bash him all the time"...you'd think it would be easy for you to give me an example.

I';d rather be a letter changer than a straight up liar like you did. It says a lot.

The only liar here is you. You bash Dak ALL OF THE TIME.