Russia invades Ukraine *** READ RULES IN POST 6 BEFORE POSTING ***

darthseinfeld

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Not sure it's winnable. Maybe through attrition.
I doubt Russia ever has peaceful control of that country. They will need troop levels there similar to what they have there now for a generation. At some point they will have to give up because it wont be worth it
 

RustyBourneHorse

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I doubt Russia ever has peaceful control of that country. They will need troop levels there similar to what they have there now for a generation. At some point they will have to give up because it wont be worth it

And that's assuming that they even stop with Ukraine, which I don't think they will.
 

OGCowboy

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This definitely not playing out like Vlad envisioned....I think sooner than later he starts looking for a way out while trying to save face. Watch for “talks” to begin soon.
Kinda like a trapped animal you wanna release...let him see a way out
 

Bigdog

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This definitely not playing out like Vlad envisioned....I think sooner than later he starts looking for a way out while trying to save face. Watch for “talks” to begin soon.
Kinda like a trapped animal you wanna release...let him see a way out
I hope you are right but I think his ego will get in the way and then be more determined. As they said in the movie Braveheart: he’s not right in the head.
 

OGCowboy

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I hope you are right but I think his ego will get in the way and then be more determined. As they said in the movie Braveheart: he’s not right in the head.
One thing to always remember...Russians are Asiatic not European.
Saving face is extremely important to Asiatic culture....
Vlads biggest issue is not only saving face but at some point will become a struggle to survive and retain power. He has many enemies in Russia that will be emboldened by world opinion against Russia...
 

Bigdog

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So NATO is mainly the US, I think Canada, and most of Western Europe excluding Sweden and Finland.
Canada is part of NATO and most of Eastern Europe except for Belarus, Ukraine, Finland, Sweden but the latter 3 are thinking about joining which makes a country like Russia very afraid.
 

RustyBourneHorse

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Canada is part of NATO and most of Eastern Europe except for Belarus, Ukraine, Finland, Sweden but the latter 3 are thinking about joining which makes a country like Russia very afraid.
That's what I thought. Though, if Ukraine somehow, and God-willing, survives this, they might end up joining NATO.
 

Oz-of-Cowboy-Country

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No one wants their enemies living right next door. It's, almost, the Cuban missile crisis in reverse. Putin acted before Ukraine could become what he calls an threat. It's all in his head, though. I'm not a fan of the U.N. but they really are no threat to anyone.

Putin is just using his own fears as a power play. As they say men with power crave, more power. And more power comes from expansion. But Russia is not a dictatorship, so Putin isn't making these decisions by himself.

It's just a crazy situation.
 

rags747

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No one wants their enemies living right next door. It's, almost, the Cuban missile crisis in reverse. Putin acted before Ukraine could become what he calls an threat. It's all in his head, though. I'm not a fan of the U.N. but they really are no threat to anyone.

Putin is just using his own fears as a power play. As they say men with power crave, more power. And more power comes from expansion. But Russia is not a dictatorship, so Putin isn't making these decisions by himself.

It's just a crazy situation.
I agree with your first paragraph, but the countries surrounding Russia since the wall has come down have been heavily funded with money and weapons and joined NATO which as you said is making Putin feel like he is in a Cuban missile crisis some 60 years later.
 

csirl

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Here's the reason in my view this is a difficult situation. On one hand, it's true that Ukraine is not in NATO. That said, we do have to look at history. With a lot of tyrants like Putin, Stalin, and Hitler, the invasions into countries like Ukraine or Czechoslovakia were not where the invasions stopped. Yes, there were things we could've done differently. For example, after WW1, it probably was a bad idea to punish Germany as hard as the Allies.did. That set financial issues on Germany that the collapse of the Stock Market in 1929 exacerbated. This was one of the biggest reasons that Hitler was able to rise to power. It wasn't until he invaded Poland that really started WW2.

Similarly, the ineptitude of Czar Nicolas was a big reason that the Bolsheviks under Lenin and Stalin were able to rise to power. We saw what that led to with the massive growth of the USSR.

Similarly, sure, the west could've been less harsh on Russia to an extent. Perhaps allowing more discussion with Russia could have helped. That said, now that Putin has started on Ukraine, that does not mean he's going to stop there. Look how he's already threatening Finland and Sweden now. In my mind, if he's able to take Ukraine, he's not going to stop there. Why would he? He wants the USSR back. If we compare the Putin invasion with Hitler's invasions, what's to say he won't go after Estonia or Lithuania? They're NATO countries, but, if we don't show more strength to Putin, which is what he understands, and follow the lead of Ukraine, then we might see him continue his conquest until he hits one of our NATO allies until we are forced to defend such allies. Additionally, China wants Taiwan. If we continue to show weakness, we may inadvertently greenlight China to attack Taiwan, who the US I think is obligated by treaty to defend. So, this could get very bad.

Furboy, you're from a European NATO country. If Putin annexed Estonia, would there be the stomach or public will to enter into a war? For a small country on the other side of Europe?
 

Red Dragon

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Furboy, you're from a European NATO country. If Putin annexed Estonia, would there be the stomach or public will to enter into a war? For a small country on the other side of Europe?

If Article 5 doesn't apply for all, it's meaningless.
 
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