Russia invades Ukraine *** READ RULES IN POST 6 BEFORE POSTING ***

rags747

rags747

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kskboys said:
Even longer.

Funny thing is, Ukraine was one of the founding republics of the USSR. Strange stuff. In the 1930's, Russia sort of took over which led to great famine.

When the USSR dissolved in 1991, Ukraine became independent again.

And yes, the fighting started again in 2014 when Russia entered Crimea. Been going on since then. So, in reality, this is an escalation.
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Ukraine became independent, but they had a freely elected person in office that wanted to get along with Russia and saw many things the same way Russia did. This would have made everything nice a nice. 2008 timeframe I believe the usual rabble rousing started, $100’s of millions were spent and a Puppet was injected as leader of Ukraine. Obviously this made Putin mad, but others very happy.
 

Bigdog

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Roadtrip635 said:


The Ukrainian citizens are fighting back hard and taking a toll........
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As they should. They are fighting for their right to be free. That is powerful right there. I hope Putin comes to his senses and pulls his troops out. No one needs to die any more. That could be asking too much though. For some reason I think his ego is getting the better of his common sense. Maybe the 10 richest people in Russia who lost over $36 billion dollars in 24 hours can pressure him to end this.
 
dsturgeon

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Reality said:
What I am telling you is the Ukrainian people will not give up no matter who helps them or does not help them or who tells them to give up.

If their government leaders said, "Everyone give up" they would turn on the leaders and still keep fighting.
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kskboys said:
I always find it amusing when people assign our own beliefs and values to other countries.
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I didn't assign anything. Why is Ukraine not a rubble heap? Why would Russia risk soldiers before massive bombing raids, power grid and resource destruction, cyber attacks, etc. They could have completely crippled Ukraine, then gone in.

If other countries are going to fight a full scale proxy war, and cripple Russia, why not just send full support militarily and stop Ukrainian soldiers casualties.

Why not use your full arsenal, why not lay sieges, why risk soldiers either way. War to win with the least amount of casualties to your side, or not at all
 
rags747

rags747

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Roadtrip635 said:
That would be a huge blow against Russia
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A bigger blow for Germany. I hope they like not having any energy. Oil and gas from Russia are all transacted via Swift, no Swift Germany gets cutoff. I believe Germany has about 3 days of reserves, but good on Germany, they brought this on themselves when they decided to do business with the devil. They should have listened when they were told that it was nonsense, make Russia your #1 supplier of energy and then pay money to NATO to defend from Russia. Absolutely Brilliant!
 
RustyBourneHorse

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Bigdog said:
Puntin does not want Finland or Sweden to join NATO just like he doesn’t want Ukraine to join. They are close to Russia and NATOs missiles can strike his country. Finland and Russia have a 383 mile border. It already lost the Baltic countries to NATO and Putin is concern that all of Europe will be under NATO and the countries have to defend each other by the law of the treaty. Putin would be absolutely an insane to attack a NATO country knowing that the sleeping bear can awake. You don’t want to poke the bear. Putin can not defeat NATO by himself and he knows it. This still doesn’t give him the right to invade a peaceful nation who should have the right to decide if they want to join or not.
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Of course he doesn't. That said, it's not really his choice, is it? It's time we stop being Neville Chamberlain with him. Eventually, it's going to bite us on the *** if we carry on this way. Putin knows if he really wants to have a go in the way he threatened that he could be ending civilization. So, I don't think he will actually go there.
 
RustyBourneHorse

RustyBourneHorse

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rags747 said:
A bigger blow for Germany. I hope they like not having any energy. Oil and gas from Russia are all transacted via Swift, no Swift Germany gets cutoff. I believe Germany has about 3 days of reserves, but good on Germany, they brought this on themselves when they decided to do business with the devil. They should have listened when they were told that it was nonsense, make Russia your #1 supplier of energy and then pay money to NATO to defend from Russia. Absolutely Brilliant!
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Of course they should have, and maybe now the Germans will use NATO allies for their oil like the US and Britain.
 
RustyBourneHorse

RustyBourneHorse

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kskboys said:
Not sure it's winnable. Maybe through attrition.
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Alone, I don't think it's winnable, but, it is causing more Russians to turn on Putin. Perhaps this turns into a situation where Putin is exiled. The only place if he's forced into exile that he can really go is China or NK, because I reckon he'd be facing war crime trials beyond what we saw with Nuremberg with what he's done in other countries. Especially if the generals turn on him, which they might do. The longer the Ukrainians fight back, I think the sooner we may see that happen yet.
 
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