CFZ Why I don't think Sean Payton is coming to Dallas

[RustyBourneHorse]

We almost beat San Francisco and we were not at full strength and then add to that 14 penalties.

We're not far away. It all starts with the offensive line. Some of the guys we added last year will be more experienced and then of course we have a new left guard.

Yes, and the FO has addressed the oline in the draft, which I'm pleased to see. I'm also pleased to see we have an apparent upgrade at kicker. Think of the missed points from the missed kicks.this season.

 

[eromeopolk]

I know there's consensus among some that Payton is just going to pack his belongings and move to the Cowboys because he lives in Dallas. While this is intriguing, this does not make sense to me. Here are the reasons:

1. Say what you want about Mike McCarthy, but I like the job he's doing. Yes, his clock management isn't great, but he's still much better than Jason Garrett. Remember, this is the same franchise that had Garrett for about 10 years as a HC. Not to mention the time he was the OC here as well. That's a lot of cleanup Mike had to do, and I think the team is getting better. There definitely seems to be a plan to me.
2. Sean Payton would cost to much. Remember, he's under contract still with the Saints, and the Saints have made it clear they'll want at least 1 first round pick in exchange. That's not a good move imo. Yes, Sean Payton is a solid HC. However, I don't think he's worth that.
3. What makes you think Sean Payton WANTS to coach here? Yes, we have a lot of talent. However, let's not forget. Payton HAS coached here. He knows Jerry Jones. How do you know he'd even want to come here?
4. If Mike didn't work well, why would Sean? Both coaches have had a HOF-QB, and only managed to win one SB. What makes Sean special where Mike isn't?
5. Most importantly, even if we do move on from Mike, there is a better option imo in the Cowboys own organisation than Sean. Dan Quinn is the man that I think would make the most sense. Think about it. There is a clear change in philosophy on defence. The players are much younger, quicker, and nastier. The team drafted Parsons last year, who is a completely different breed of LB than the Cowboys have had since maybe DWare, who Garrett gets no credit for drafting as he was not here. Prior to that, the best defencive player aside from DWare and Parsons was Charles Haley for the Cowboys. The secondary is taking more chances and are attacking the ball. This NEVER was as prevalent on this team under Garrett, especially under Marinelli. That's no coincidence. That's a change in style and tactics. That's a front office that's listening and respects the opinion of Dan Quinn and clearly believe in him as a coach and, as seen on the defence last year, for good reason. Oh, and let's not forget he was the interim coach against the Saints, and he put on an absolute clinic that game. I think Quinn is the next HC, and rightfully so.
6. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. We've done consecutive offensive-minded HCs in Garrett and Mike. Sean would be another of that mindset. Maybe it's time to try a defencive-minded approach at HC. Mind you, the Cowboys, with the exception of Dave Campo, we've done well with that mindset, especially one that values trenches like Quinn does. Landry did well, obviously. Jimmy Johnson was a defencive-minded coach. Bill Parcells is another, and Wade Phillips did well with us. Perhaps it's time to return to those roots with Quinn if we get rid of Mike.

In conclusion, maybe it's time we change our approach to coaching. I think it's time we go defencive-minded, and we don't have to look to another team for that. We have one here that's done wonders to our defence.

Do you know who the Saints OC was before Sean Payton became HC and OC in New Orleans....Mike McCarthy.

Saints fans used to complain about Mike McCarthy all the time. Sean was able to get a franchise that never sniff the NFC Championship game in the history of the franchise to that game his first year as HC. The worst season Payton had as HC was 7-9 which happened 4 times in 15 years. Sean is just better than the Big M&M.

However, Jerry would have to concede control to Sean and a GM like Mickey Loomis. The good thing is that Loomis's son is already on the Cowboys personnel staff (jumped to Director of Pro Scouting). Will McClay would move up the totem pole. So, either Jerry would remove himself or Stephen would let go some of his control. That maybe a huge issue as Sean Payton would trust Alex Loomis more than Will McClay. McClay would definitely try to get Alex Loomis out as a GM for another team and how would Sean Payton like that move?

Their is no way Sean Payton would have a team go tight (not sure of teamselves) into a playoff game. This is the problem with Mike McCarthy, he was mentored by perennial playoff loser Marty Schotenhimer. Remember he had Farve and Rodger and could only deliver 1 Super Bowl. Payton's mentor was Bill Parcells who was so influential that Payton wanted Parcells to replace him as interim Bounty Gate HC. Parcells did not have tight teams and Payton did not have tight teams during playoffs. Sean Payton had a team targeting players in a playoff game (See Brett Farve and Adrian Peterson lite up in that NFC Championship game). That is an insane focused team.

Looking at this years draft, I would take Sean Payton over a first round pick that was an over penalized LT that can only play Guard in the NFL. Sean is worth a number one pick. But with Alex Loomis already in Dallas, the Saints may take less.

 

[Flamma]

Sean Payton without Drew Brees is Mike McCarthy.

Give it to Quinn and pick an OC.

I would give any picks for any coach not named Belichick.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Do you know who the Saints OC was before Sean Payton became HC and OC in New Orleans....Mike McCarthy.

Saints fans used to complain about Mike McCarthy all the time. Sean was able to get a franchise that never sniff the NFC Championship game in the history of the franchise to that game his first year as HC. The worst season Payton had as HC was 7-9 which happened 4 times in 15 years. Sean is just better than the Big M&M.

However, Jerry would have to concede control to Sean and a GM like Mickey Loomis. The good thing is that Loomis's son is already on the Cowboys personnel staff (jumped to Director of Pro Scouting). Will McClay would move up the totem pole. So, either Jerry would remove himself or Stephen would let go some of his control. That maybe a huge issue as Sean Payton would trust Alex Loomis more than Will McClay. McClay would definitely try to get Alex Loomis out as a GM for another team and how would Sean Payton like that move?

Their is no way Sean Payton would have a team go tight (not sure of teamselves) into a playoff game. This is the problem with Mike McCarthy, he was mentored by perennial playoff loser Marty Schotenhimer. Remember he had Farve and Rodger and could only deliver 1 Super Bowl. Payton's mentor was Bill Parcells who was so influential that Payton wanted Parcells to replace him as interim Bounty Gate HC. Parcells did not have tight teams and Payton did not have tight teams during playoffs. Sean Payton had a team targeting players in a playoff game (See Brett Farve and Adrian Peterson lite up in that NFC Championship game). That is an insane focused team.

Looking at this years draft, I would take Sean Payton over a first round pick that was an over penalized LT that can only play Guard in the NFL. Sean is worth a number one pick. But with Alex Loomis already in Dallas, the Saints may take less.

That may be, but Sean also only won one SB with a HOF-QB. Additionally, I think it'd be a bit more of the same to keep going offense at HC. It's why I think Quinn makes more sense. He was very unlucky with how the SB played out, or he'd be much further into the debate for HC.

 

[john van brocklin]

Or let Quinn decide that

I think Jerry controls that decision
But that's just my speculation
The whole offense with Mac is strange

 

[john van brocklin]

This. It’s a pipe to dream to think Sean Payton comes to Dallas without having some major changes at the top of this organization. He’s not coming here without some contractual protection to be a real HC in ways the Jones boys won’t concede.

As long as Jerry’s drawing breath, he will be the centerpiece of this franchise. Even our #1 draft pick called him “Coach Jones”, LOL!

This^^^

 

[J_Allen]

Yes, and the FO has addressed the oline in the draft, which I'm pleased to see. I'm also pleased to see we have an apparent upgrade at kicker. Think of the missed points from the missed kicks.this season.

If we have a better kicker we start off the season beating Tampa bay.

This guy was missing extra points in training camp, he had to have been. From now on let's go into the season with a kicker who can do his job.

 

[Hardline]

Payton and McCarthy have very similar resumes.
You ain't upgrading with Payton.

 

[J_Allen]

That may be, but Sean also only won one SB with a HOF-QB. Additionally, I think it'd be a bit more of the same to keep going offense at HC. It's why I think Quinn makes more sense. He was very unlucky with how the SB played out, or he'd be much further into the debate for HC.

That's true but the Saints were always contenders (or highly competitive) minus a few years during his tenure. If not for a crooked call by the refs, they go back to the Super Bowl.

Remember they had to get rid of a lot of people because they were paying Drew Brees so much.

 

[Jake]

We almost beat San Francisco and we were not at full strength and then add to that 14 penalties.

We're not far away.

11 of the Cowboys 12 wins were against teams with less than 10 wins themselves. Every opponent with 10+ wins beat the Cowboys, except for the Patriots.

Dallas feasted on bad teams and were the only ones to lose at home in the wild card round. We're farther away than you think.

 

[GMO415]

I know there's consensus among some that Payton is just going to pack his belongings and move to the Cowboys because he lives in Dallas. While this is intriguing, this does not make sense to me. Here are the reasons:

1. Say what you want about Mike McCarthy, but I like the job he's doing. Yes, his clock management isn't great, but he's still much better than Jason Garrett. Remember, this is the same franchise that had Garrett for about 10 years as a HC. Not to mention the time he was the OC here as well. That's a lot of cleanup Mike had to do, and I think the team is getting better. There definitely seems to be a plan to me.
2. Sean Payton would cost to much. Remember, he's under contract still with the Saints, and the Saints have made it clear they'll want at least 1 first round pick in exchange. That's not a good move imo. Yes, Sean Payton is a solid HC. However, I don't think he's worth that.
3. What makes you think Sean Payton WANTS to coach here? Yes, we have a lot of talent. However, let's not forget. Payton HAS coached here. He knows Jerry Jones. How do you know he'd even want to come here?
4. If Mike didn't work well, why would Sean? Both coaches have had a HOF-QB, and only managed to win one SB. What makes Sean special where Mike isn't?
5. Most importantly, even if we do move on from Mike, there is a better option imo in the Cowboys own organisation than Sean. Dan Quinn is the man that I think would make the most sense. Think about it. There is a clear change in philosophy on defence. The players are much younger, quicker, and nastier. The team drafted Parsons last year, who is a completely different breed of LB than the Cowboys have had since maybe DWare, who Garrett gets no credit for drafting as he was not here. Prior to that, the best defencive player aside from DWare and Parsons was Charles Haley for the Cowboys. The secondary is taking more chances and are attacking the ball. This NEVER was as prevalent on this team under Garrett, especially under Marinelli. That's no coincidence. That's a change in style and tactics. That's a front office that's listening and respects the opinion of Dan Quinn and clearly believe in him as a coach and, as seen on the defence last year, for good reason. Oh, and let's not forget he was the interim coach against the Saints, and he put on an absolute clinic that game. I think Quinn is the next HC, and rightfully so.
6. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. We've done consecutive offensive-minded HCs in Garrett and Mike. Sean would be another of that mindset. Maybe it's time to try a defencive-minded approach at HC. Mind you, the Cowboys, with the exception of Dave Campo, we've done well with that mindset, especially one that values trenches like Quinn does. Landry did well, obviously. Jimmy Johnson was a defencive-minded coach. Bill Parcells is another, and Wade Phillips did well with us. Perhaps it's time to return to those roots with Quinn if we get rid of Mike.

In conclusion, maybe it's time we change our approach to coaching. I think it's time we go defencive-minded, and we don't have to look to another team for that. We have one here that's done wonders to our defence.

Better than Jason Garrett???? That aint saying much

 

[quickccc]

My point is that a great defencive-minded HC could be what Dak needs.

- i think it's far more important to hire a HC who fits to be a HC, that comes first before a particular side of the ball, imo.

- A good HC needs to be a great manager of the game and a leader of men, It takes overseeing the entire operation while still being smart and knowledgeable and savvy on Both sides of the ball. He has to know when to delegate duties, roles and tasks among his asst. coaches ..and when to take over, implement his adjustment changes.

- A good HC doesn't get rattled and he makes adjustments on the run, in season, in game.. and most of all, he speaks and carries himself in a way that commands respect from his players. N short his players will be motivated by that HC, and will assert their hardest efforts for that HC.

- And a plus ? .. That HC has to have really good connections around the league so that it will be easy enough for him to replace assistants as they move to other teams.

- And that HC does not necessarily have to be some rah rah guy who rants and raves up and down the sideline, not even necessarily a great Xs and Os guy either. There have been many of those types who couldn’t lead or coach a damn thing!

 

[cowboyec]

im not giving up any draft picks in any round for any head coach not named tom landry.

 

[basel90]

A big issue for Payton is Dak , Payton know Dak is not a Super Bowl caliber QB . Sean can tolerate and sway Jerry more than any available coach . But Dak is here for at least 4-5 years. Payton knows Dak is not good enought to overcome the average talent Jerry has amassed.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Is your cousin's fiancee available if we need a coach?

Nah he does instant replay and video work for nba tnt and nfl network in mount laurel, nj. u salty or nah?

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Payton and McCarthy have very similar resumes.
You ain't upgrading with Payton.

Exactly

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

A big issue for Payton is Dak , Payton know Dak is not a Super Bowl caliber QB . Sean can tolerate and sway Jerry more than any available coach . But Dak is here for at least 4-5 years. Payton knows Dak is not good enought to overcome the average talent Jerry has amassed.

I think Dak can be a SB QB. I think a better oline and kicked will help. Also, Quinn's defence is helping.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

That's true but the Saints were always contenders (or highly competitive) minus a few years during his tenure. If not for a crooked call by the refs, they go back to the Super Bowl.

Remember they had to get rid of a lot of people because they were paying Drew Brees so much.

Same could be said for Green Bay (though they benefitted from the refs in two of those years)

 

[eromeopolk]

That may be, but Sean also only won one SB with a HOF-QB. Additionally, I think it'd be a bit more of the same to keep going offense at HC. It's why I think Quinn makes more sense. He was very unlucky with how the SB played out, or he'd be much further into the debate for HC.

You are making my point. Mike McCarthy had 2 HOF QBs, 1 proven HOF QBs and a no.1 pick that is on his way to the HOF. Payton took Drew Brees from the garbage dump (bad shoulder) to the Super Bowl and the HOF.

I do not like defensive coaches that have not shown they can win the big one like Schottenhiemer, Dan Quinn, or Phil Carroll before Russell Wilson. I prefer Defensive coaches like Belichick, Landry, Johnson, and Parcells who were innovators and leaders of men in their own unique way (from Landry demand for detail, Jimmy Johnson bravado/attack 4-3/mind games, to Parcells motivation). In this way I agree with you regarding defensive coaches.

But Quinn is not a Tom Landry, Chuck Noll, Bill Belichick, or Bill Parcells. Remember beside the Super Bowl let down as HC for the Falcons, Quinn let McCarthy and Dak Prescott come from behind and beat the Falcons. He is just not HC material. He is another version of Rod Marinelli.

Quinn is a very good defensive coach but everyone knows now that Kyle Shanahan was more important in Atlanta than Quinn. We need a leader of men and Sean Payton seems to fit that description better than Dan Quinn.

 

[J_Allen]

11 of the Cowboys 12 wins were against teams with less than 10 wins themselves. Every opponent with 10+ wins beat the Cowboys, except for the Patriots.

Dallas feasted on bad teams and were the only ones to lose at home in the wild card round. We're farther away than you think.

If not for a missed field goal and extra point we beat Tampa bay. We go into New England and beat them in overtime. We simply imploded. It's hard to win without a running game and tons of drive killing penalties. A few per game.