When was it that you lost faith in Moore as OC?

[Diehardblues]

You asked me point blank what if Jerry didnt do what I said.

I think local media is soft on Jerry. Its a big reason why he never changes anything.

I didn’t mean to ask you directly. I’m not really interested in what fans would do including myself . I’m more interested in evaluating the situation and why that is including the ones calling the shots .

If you want to hold the puppets responsible that’s fine but IMO that’s avoiding the bigger target.

Our owner should be publicly called out for why he over rides and meddles with coaching and why he would insist on playing Elliott in those situations .

And if you want to hear harsh critics I’d suggest picking up a Dallas paper or subscribing online . Unfortunately we aren’t allowed to share here.

Some of our local TV and Radio personalities have also been harsh critics . My thoughts are aligned with most of them.

 

[fivetwos]

Any way you slice it, MM is worlds better then Garrett and Moore is a big step up from the horrid Garrett as OC.

Agreed on MM.

For me, Moore is Garrett's play book with a few gimmick plays, but I won't staunchly defend that idea, just a hunch. At any rate, the big problem was failure to adjust, just like Garrett....and I very much thought we were past the days when our opponents after games would tell the media they knew what we were going to do, and nothing ever done about it.

 

[Typhus]

[QUOTE="Diehardblues, post: 11911109, member: 39111]You really believe Jethro is going to bench the RB he just caved into 90 million play a second fiddle role . [/QUOTE]
Not a snowballs chance in Hades... We are rolling with Zeke and Pollard in archaic mode in a new era of extended season.
No room for potential RB3 threat on this roster.

 

[Stash]

Week 9 when he got pantsed by Denver.

 

[Cmac]

The moment he was named OC.

 

[quickccc]

Moore was a breath of fresh air in the beginning. The passing game immediately went to the next level after Garrett left and Moore was able to open things up. In 2020 the Cowboys had a record breaking offense before Dak went down at 32 points per game. Even last year despite the inconsistent 2nd half they had the #1 scoring offense in the NFL at 30 points per game and the #1 passing game in the NFL yardage wise.

But for me personally it was the 2nd half of the season when teams made some adjustments and he failed to adjust himself. Now granted the Oline went in the toilet and Zeke got hurt which killed the run game. But once teams went into the two deep zone Moore went into a shell. He couldnt seem to adjust to that. Things got basic again. And the fact that he had the perfect opportunity to bench Zeke for the more dynamic Pollard and didnt, that was it for me.

Is there any hope that he learns from his inexperience and blossoms going forward or is he done?

Glass half empty, Glass half full …
- As I’ve always said, some stats and numbers can be misleading – and we cannot always believe and buy into every article or stat one throws at us

- Yes, We may have had No.1 offense in terms of total yardage, but how much is it vs sorry, sad sistas of the NFC East division that helped buff and balloon those stats by season’s end ?
Philly, Washington at or over 50 points, then there’s the Giants and ATL

- What we can take credit and positives was the first half of that offense was two competitive teams, ala SB champ TB Bucs .and Bill Belichek’s NE Pats.
That’s 29 and 36 points against very respectable defenses, and coaches.

- But Denver ? Arizona ? KC Chiefs ? ..and eventually Niners playoff game ?
what happened to 2nd half starting with Denver loss ? instead of preparing for the loaded blitzes, Denver and others began pushing back heavily in the zone coverages,
Taking away more vertical passes, and forcing to take what defense gives in the underneath pass game.

 

[quickccc]

As with any coach, any scheme and any team, it’s a game of chess and teams will adjust and counter scheme against what you like to do best, ..
- Wild cat
- Greatest Show on Turf
- K-Gun …
- Run and Shoot ..
- Belichek vs Jared Goff in the SB,… you just cannot keep and stay with the same ole, same ole ..

- And it has to go beyond just Hulk- formation and running Deebo as a RB
If teams are forcing so much zone coverage against you, you and your QB have to find ways to counter-attack and beat their zones. And that goes with run game, and various ways
to beat them underneath. Rams used WR Kupp and various TEs-RBs underneath in pass game vs Cincy’s zone in SB to beat that defense.

- Ironically Cincy did same to KC Chiefs that allowed them to slow Mahomes and advance to the SB,.. Andy Reid/Mahomes did not run ball enuff (they avg 5.0 carry) and
could gain enuff momentum in the underneath pass game.

 

[quickccc]

- Overall i've always liked K-Moore pass designs when it comes to the WRs- TEs,... seems like he schemed them well to get them open.
He implemented a quick huddle to no-huddle pace approach. He implemented rub routes and bunch formations, as well as a multi-motion, multi-formation pre-snap approach.
In these instances, it resembled Sean McVey’s Rams pass offense.

Where it clearly starts to falls off noticeably, imo is his offense does not seem to cater and utilize the RBs in either run or pass game.
-He may run one RB screen, and then he’ll stop
-He may run one jet sweep with Pollard .. and then he’ll stop,..
-He may pitch sweep Pollard on the edges – he runs for long TD, and you won’t see it again

Otherwise there doesn’t appear to be a variation with his run scheme.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Moore was a breath of fresh air in the beginning. The passing game immediately went to the next level after Garrett left and Moore was able to open things up. In 2020 the Cowboys had a record breaking offense before Dak went down at 32 points per game. Even last year despite the inconsistent 2nd half they had the #1 scoring offense in the NFL at 30 points per game and the #1 passing game in the NFL yardage wise.

But for me personally it was the 2nd half of the season when teams made some adjustments and he failed to adjust himself. Now granted the Oline went in the toilet and Zeke got hurt which killed the run game. But once teams went into the two deep zone Moore went into a shell. He couldnt seem to adjust to that. Things got basic again. And the fact that he had the perfect opportunity to bench Zeke for the more dynamic Pollard and didnt, that was it for me.

Is there any hope that he learns from his inexperience and blossoms going forward or is he done?

I have been expressing concern from the time he was given the OC. no NFL coach gets to be good unless they go through the ranks, pay the price, get schooled and learn and be mentored. going from a QB coach to an OC with all of one year of total coaching experience at any level is way too fast and way too soon. plus Garrett and Linehan were his mentors.... 'nuff said

its not about the play design. in theory there is almost no play design in NFL that's done to fail. it all are designed and schemed to succeed. some are more exotic than others. the challenge for good OCs is game day management and game day play calling. what formations, with what players, what route combinations and pre-snap motions and how you discover what the defense is doing, vs. how you should attack it. that's what sets the good OCs apart from JAGs. I remember a story about McVay, running a formation with certain route combination to see how the defense would line up and react and play against it. later in 4th quarter he called the same formation, with same pre-snap but ran different route combinations to get a big gain.

give NFL DCs enough tape and they will discover your tendencies and plays. now, with almost two years of tape, they have him figured out. he has to adjust accordingly, knowing their tendencies...he hasn't....Denver coach called it last year and that was begining of the end. Moore never adjusted. his formations started to be telegraphed and defenses played us a certain way, played zone and we could never counter. we only beat crappy teams like Giants, Washington and Philly when the talent was just too good and we played their backups. against average to good teams we struggled.

he needs to take command of the offense and talk to his players and make sure they understand his expectations. last year, first game against Tampa, 2 minute drive. Cooper catches and stays in bounce. both CD and zeke run out of bounce for additional couple of yards. that's Moore's responsibility to make sure they understand their responsibilities, what they should be doing, etc. we lost that game because we gave Tampa too much time with timeouts. instead of less time and no timeouts...

Moore is still learning. I don't have faith in him to be able to adjust. he is not a genuis.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Denver game

they figured out we could be run against and figured they can attack our OL with 4, dropping 7 into coverage.he nver punished them for their defense doing that....he kept trying to do the same thing and was frustrated when it didn't work.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Until the culture changes in Dallas, it is hard to blame coaches. How many more coaches are fans going to trash before fans realize that the problem is with the overpaid, underperforming, entitled players? The only coach that I can’t stand is Fat Mike. He makes terrible in-game decisions on a consistent basis that hurts the team. KM was just great around here last season until players started to fail in executing plays. KM can’t do anything about it until Jerry starts backing the coaches instead of players.

exactly. Jerry hired moore and told everone that he reports to him, not garrett. he forced McCarthy to keep Moore, despite anything McCarthy says otherwise. he told McCarthy to leave moore alone, as McCarthy mentioned he is not involved in the offense (a message if I ever heard one).

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Everything was disclosed initially that Moore was continuing with Garrett’s offense. They thought it was better or easier for Prescott.

They even added McCarthy would need to learn the offense. They exposed it all publicly. Why would they feel a need to hide anything now?

no, it was because Jerry was thinking that he found the next NFL genuis and everyone is going to say how smart Jerry is. He thought of Moore as the next McVay.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Parcells sucked. Ol' 34-32. Average at best.

with the talent we had back then. same talent that went 5-11 three straight seasons. getting to 5 because they had the Commanders number....going 34-32 and two playoff appearances was great feat. specially that first year, with Quincy "doobie" Carter. the game against seattle, if not for a slippery ball (and they changed the rules after that)......

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The Jockey(Moore) is a fine OC it's the Horse(Dak) that can't finish the race!!!!

I guess you like 18 WR screen per game and lets not forget to telegraph CD lining up in the back field and zeke coming up the middle.....

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

When the team extended Dak and stuck him with a QB that cant get it done, Moore's career was over in Dallas.

I would love to know how MM and Moore truly feel about Dak.

so Moore needs great players to be good. he can't elevate the team he has...ok. that's good to know.

 

[Diehardblues]

LOL...........in case you forgot, I started this thread about losing faith in Moore.

Again, you are arguing with imaginary people about imaginary things.

Yes you did . And in your opening post and another one you stated you held Moore at least partially responsible for playing Elliott ahead of Pollard even though you acknowledge why it wasn’t his decision .

Every time I point this out you refer back to this “ I’m arguing with imaginary things “.

It certainly comes off like the fact he didn’t play Pollard more was a big part of why you’ve lost faith in Moore. But yet you have admitted why he did wasn’t on him. Except for being a punk puppet I believe were your words .

“And the fact that he had the perfect opportunity to bench Zeke for the more dynamic Pollard and didnt, that was it for me. ” . Roy, again , those are your words. But yet I’m arguing with an imaginary thing.

 

[Diehardblues]

so Moore needs great players to be good. he can't elevate the team he has...ok. that's good to know.

Yep like most coaches . Without talent coaching is reduced greatly. Even with the greatest coaching.

 

[CouchCoach]

He is still young and maybe the Cowboys wasn't the best place to start his coaching career where he is so reviewed?

The head scratcher for me was when McC said he had no involvement in the play calling in the playoff game. He sees his offense and OC struggling and doesn't get involved? Who in the hell created that cluster?

I have <0 faith in this brain trust to competently run the football side of football.

And those that want Payton to ride in and save the day, he got openly demoted by Fassel when he was the Giants OC and they went on to the Big Dance.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I didn’t mean to ask you directly. I’m not really interested in what fans would do including myself . I’m more interested in evaluating the situation and why that is including the ones calling the shots .

If you want to hold the puppets responsible that’s fine but IMO that’s avoiding the bigger target.

Our owner should be publicly called out for why he over rides and meddles with coaching and why he would insist on playing Elliott in those situations .

And if you want to hear harsh critics I’d suggest picking up a Dallas paper or subscribing online . Unfortunately we aren’t allowed to share here.

Some of our local TV and Radio personalities have also been harsh critics . My thoughts are aligned with most of them.

Exactly. Everyone agreed Jerry sucks.

this thread is about losing faith In moore. Either stick to the thread or talk to your imaginary friends.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Ummmm. Cincinnati. LOL. Was this a serious question?

Umm...Cincinnati should have lost during their 1st round playoff game. The crooked officials helped Cincinnati win that game against the Titans. Cincinnati should have lost. I don't give credit to anyone who gets helped by the crooked refs.