CFZ How Would Jimmy Johnson Handle the Cowboys Salary Cap in the 90's?

[RomoIsGod]

Jimmy was lobbying Deion to come to Dallas. I think Deion never goes to SF. Dallas goes 14-2 with Deion. Dallas beats SF in the NFC Championship. Deion never interferes Irvin. Instead Dallas beats SF handily and destroys San Diego in the Super Bowl. Dallas goes on to win 3 more SB's before free agency and age begins to erode Dallas Dynasty. Yes, that's right. They win 6 Super Bowls in a row.

 

[BAT]

Funny how the smartest most hard working guys always seem to be the luckiest?

He drafted Walsh with a 1st in the supplemental draft, gave up the 1st round overall pick the following year.
Some think he was genius for that, as he got a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or something like that from the Saints. Can't remember who he got with this picks. He got lucky he found another sucker to make a trade.

Then he traded picks to trade up to take Russell Maryland, one of his guys with the 1st overall pick. Solid player, but he did not need to do that. He was like a guy that won the Lotto and overpaid for for a sports car, but got got a souped up van.

He lucked into drafting Emmitt. Because he could not trade up to get any LB's, in Francis or Lathon.

The got 5 players and a few draft picks for Walker, that ended up being all those 1st to 3rd round picks. Depending if the players were released or not. He never had intended to keep any of them, but did keep Holt.
Darrin Nelson part of that trade, refused to pay for Dallas. So they worked out a deal, and sent Nelson to the Chargers, I think for a 2nd round pick. Which was great. Because if he had any ounce of success in Dallas. Then I doubt they would have taken Emmitt.

A lot of great manipulation but also a lot of luck.

 

[BAT]

No one at time would even think of trading away their best player in their prime.

That's why Walker trade was known as Great Train Robbery, people around NFL thought Jimmy and Jerry got robbed.

This was not luck, this was strategy.

I love Jimmy but without the Walker trade I think Dallas never sniffs the SB, they were able to leverage so much talent from the picks they got that they were drafting high in rounds due to how hamstrung Minny was and NO was due to the walsh trade. Sorry to say if the Walker trade didn't happen Jimmy would have been ridden out on a rail by year 3.

 

[BAT]

Jimmy was handicapped by his inability to develop or draft offense particularly at the skill positions.

Ever hear of the Triplets?

Frilight was only good with Cowboys. Jimmy Smith became a perennial pro bowler on other teams. Novacek was a just plan B guy until becoming pro bowler in Dallas. Dallas OL did not have a single 1st round pick. The Great Wall was made up of cast offs, projects and small school guys.

 

[Ranched]

There was no salary cap in the 90's!

 

[BAT]

A completely moot point because Jimmy's days as the football man were over in Dallas and that's what the split was over. Booger wanted more credit and power and the team was in the black and he had more time on his hands and was ready for the spotlight that Johnson had enjoyed. It was already unraveling.

The real benefit of hiring Johnson, a coach fresh from college, he knew where a lot of bones were buried; however, by the time 94 rolled around none of the players he knew were there, it was a whole new crop. that he had not recruited.

Jimmy still had a keen eye and drafted more pro bowlers and HOFers for Fins than Cowboys did in same time span.

Jason Taylor
Zach Thomas
Patrick Surtain
Sam Madison

All should have been Cowboys. Brock Marion also became pro bowler in MIA.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ever hear of the Triplets?

Frilight was only good with Cowboys. Jimmy Smith became a perennial pro bowler on other teams. Novacek was a just plan B guy until becoming pro bowler in Dallas. Dallas OL did not have a single 1st round pick. The Great Wall was made up of cast offs, projects and small school guys.

Yup and Irvin was picked by Landry, Schramm was fired after Aikman's draft and Jimmy famously got Walsh that supplemental draft. You have to give him credit for Smith but he wanted the LB Francis and was okay with the board and selecting Smith when he was gone.

Jimmy cut Smith for Fleming and Davis. It's not like the WR room was overflowing with talent after K-Mart then Harper left. That is when he cut Smith.

What he could do was draft OL. Stepnoski and Big E stand front and center.

But really Jimmy's hit rate was not good on offense and when he was given complete control in Miami it was a fiasco. He busted 1sts on Yatil, Avery, and Johnson in a row.

 

[jazzcat22]

No one at time would even think of trading away their best player in their prime.

That's why Walker trade was known as Great Train Robbery, people around NFL thought Jimmy and Jerry got robbed.

This was not luck, this was strategy.

Yes it was a great strategy but there was some luck involved as well.

 

[jazzcat22]

Ever hear of the Triplets?

Frilight was only good with Cowboys. Jimmy Smith became a perennial pro bowler on other teams. Novacek was a just plan B guy until becoming pro bowler in Dallas. Dallas OL did not have a single 1st round pick. The Great Wall was made up of cast offs, projects and small school guys.

When plan B started, I wanted Dallas to get Novacek when I seen he was available. I thought he and Rob Awalt were very good TE's. Dallas got both, but Awalt's back was an issue.
It wasn't like Novacek was a bum and Jimmy turned him around.

Nate Newton said...we were a bunch of bums (though they weren't, they were decent) until Emmitt got here. He made us. Oh, and Jimmy did LUCK into getting Emmitt.
Also the offense was mediocre but looked ok. Under Shula. But it took off when Norv Turner was brought in. Turned out to be a great move by Jimmy. But at the time no one knew he was going to be as good as he was.
He was a WR coach I believe under Ernie Zampese when Jimmy brought him in.

Jimmy was great, but he he was not a god.

 

[jazzcat22]

Yup and Irvin was picked by Landry, Schramm was fired after Aikman's draft and Jimmy famously got Walsh that supplemental draft. You have to give him credit for Smith but he wanted the LB Francis and was okay with the board and selecting Smith when he was gone.

Jimmy cut Smith for Fleming and Davis. It's not like the WR room was overflowing with talent after K-Mart then Harper left. That is when he cut Smith.

What he could do was draft OL. Stepnoski and Big E stand front and center.

But really Jimmy's hit rate was not good on offense and when he was given complete control in Miami it was a fiasco. He busted 1sts on Yatil, Avery, and Johnson in a row.

Jimmy wanted James Francis, had a trade worked out but the Bengals took him. So the team they were to trade with selected right after the Bengals. So the trade was off.
Then he wanted LB Lamar Lathon, tried to trade up, but the Oilers selected him before he could get a trade worked out.

So Emmitt was supposedly the next guy on the board, as he said later on talking about the draft. ...oh well, we need a RB, so let's get Smith, so they traded up from 21 to 17 to make sure they didn't lose him.

 

[atlantacowboy]

The problem with Jimmie was how he did not/could not fulfill building a nucleus of talent thru the NFL draft, as what he helped do build in Dallas.

- We really lucked up getting a chance to draft Emmitt,.. Jimmie never came close to doing that at Miami (Sammie Smith, Troy Straford, and John Avery)
Jimmie's crew did not come up with the nest of draft gems we turned out in Dallas, (Williams, Lett, Emmitt, Harper, Allen, Tolbert, Kevin Smith, D. Woodson, Daryl Smith, Norton, etc)
and he was rewarded No.1 overall with Aikman.

- Jimmie 's best draft acclaims during his Dolphins era seemed to be only Zack Thomas, Jason Taylor, Sam Madison and Patrick Surtain; he had all kinds of problems and
disappointments acquiring top offensive talent in Miami.

- Jimmie also had to endure ego battles with declining vet QB Dan Marino, who seemed reluctant to go the Jimmie way of a run-first/pass second as what
was the way in Dallas. Ironic that Jimmie also had a strained relationship with Aikman in the early years going.

- Jimmie would have to acquire his own hand picked capologist (or two?) and work thru their advise as to build around the NFL cap world.
And who knows how that may have turned out.

Jimmy was a defensive coach. In Miami, he had no control over the offense b/c marino was entrenched and untouchable. So, he decided to build the defense and hope for the best on offense. He did a great job building that defense, and it should be noted that he did it during a time Jerry was finding next to nothing on draft days. The Cowboy dynasty collapsed b/c Jerry could not replace the aging stars and free agent losses. You add Surtain, Madison, Taylor, and Zach Thomas to the cowboys, and we probably dominate the last half of the decade and into the 2000's as well.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Jimmy wanted James Francis, had a trade worked out but the Bengals took him. So the team they were to trade with selected right after the Bengals. So the trade was off.
Then he wanted LB Lamar Lathon, tried to trade up, but the Oilers selected him before he could get a trade worked out.

So Emmitt was supposedly the next guy on the board, as he said later on talking about the draft. ...oh well, we need a RB, so let's get Smith, so they traded up from 21 to 17 to make sure they didn't lose him.

So what? Every coach has players they missed on and others they backed into. Zach Martin is a recent example. Even Landry passed on Joe Montana who was next on the cowboys board but Landry thought we had enough QBs. It doesn't detract from the legacy.

 

[jazzcat22]

So what? Every coach has players they missed on and others they backed into. Zach Martin is a recent example. Even Landry passed on Joe Montana who was next on the cowboys board but Landry thought we had enough QBs. It doesn't detract from the legacy.

I am just stating the facts and history, not degrading the guy.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Jimmy was a defensive coach. In Miami, he had no control over the offense b/c marino was entrenched and untouchable. So, he decided to build the defense and hope for the best on offense. He did a great job building that defense, and it should be noted that he did it during a time Jerry was finding next to nothing on draft days. The Cowboy dynasty collapsed b/c Jerry could not replace the aging stars and free agent losses. You add Surtain, Madison, Taylor, and Zach Thomas to the cowboys, and we probably dominate the last half of the decade and into the 2000's as well.

Then you look at his top picks in year 2-5 at the Fins and realize because he was spending firsts -and busting hard- on skill position players he was trying to work on the offense too.

 

[plasticman]

Jimmy would overpay for his own draftees to prove to the world that he is a football guy and drafts well.

Nope.

Jimmy Johnson outright cut rookie 3rd round picks on more than one occasion. He never cared about what people thought about him. he cared about what people knew about him.

They knew he was the HC of a college national championship team who had recruited numerous 1st round draft picks out of high school. They knew he believed in results, not excuses. If you didn't perform up to the expected level then you were gone.

Once training camp began you were no longer a veteran or rookie or 1st round pick or rookie free agent. You were somebody trying to make his team and if there were enough players that performed better at your position then you were cleaning out your locker before the first regular season game.

You can't say Jimmy would have done this or that about any of these things.

True, we can't predict performance, injuries, schedule results, or teh decisions of HC's and GM's.

However, you can look at the way Jimmy Johnson went about doing things, you can evaluate his past decisions and you can read some of his quotes about team building in order to make some strong speculations and that is all I have done here..

 

[fivetwos]

Nope.

Jimmy Johnson outright cut rookie 3rd round picks on more than one occasion. He never cared about what people thought about him. he cared about what people knew about him.

They knew he was the HC of a college national championship team who had recruited numerous 1st round draft picks out of high school. They knew he believed in results, not excuses. If you didn't perform up to the expected level then you were gone.

Once training camp began you were no longer a veteran or rookie or 1st round pick or rookie free agent. You were somebody trying to make his team and if there were enough players that performed better at your position then you were cleaning out your locker before the first regular season game.



True, we can't predict performance, injuries, schedule results, or teh decisions of HC's and GM's.

However, you can look at the way Jimmy Johnson went about doing things, you can evaluate his past decisions and you can read some of his quotes about team building in order to make some strong speculations and that is all I have done here..

That was just a gratuitous shot at Jerry lol.

I do that here and there. He certainly deserves it.

 

[eromeopolk]

Then you look at his top picks in year 2-5 at the Fins and realize because he was spending firsts -and busting hard- on skill position players he was trying to work on the offense too.

That (WR picks) was the Marino factor. See my post on what he really wanted to do with Marino and what he had in mind for Peyton Manning.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That (WR picks) was the Marino factor. See my post on what he really wanted to do with Marino and what he had in mind for Peyton Manning.

Yatil Green was the WR that he selected with one of the firsts. The other two were RB.

And whether or not he wanted Marino or not is besides the point. The WR he drafted played one year and then went poof. That is on him not Marino or anyone else.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nope.

Jimmy Johnson outright cut rookie 3rd round picks on more than one occasion. He never cared about what people thought about him. he cared about what people knew about him.

It's obvious that you are equating the psychological tricks he used as strength but cutting a top 100 pick to make a point still means you did a poor job evaluating him.

 

[plasticman]

It's obvious that you are equating the psychological tricks he used as strength but cutting a top 100 pick to make a point still means you did a poor job evaluating him.

He did not cut them to make a point. He cut them because others on the team were better. That's the point.

Another big point was that he wasn't afraid to admit he made a mistake rather than pretend and keep an inferior player. All teams and evaluators make mistakes. The coaches and GM's that quickly come to that conclusion, immediately rectify it and then move on have the best chance to succeed.

Evaluating is more than assessing a player's abilities from their college results and physical measurements. The evaluation really doesn't end until the regular season begins and actually continues after that in a way. Jimmy Johjnson will be the first to admit mistakes and that is why the Herschel trade was so important. Not only did the Cowboys have the ability to look at more players, they suffered less when that player was released.

The best example of this philosophy in action is Bill Belicek who would consistently trade to get future high draft picks and then trade them as well. He built his teams on multiple 2nd and 3rd round picks every year to get very good players while staying away from future cap issues.