CFZ Fixing Cowboys Run Defense: Opposite what you may think

[plasticman]

I thought you could fix the run defense simply by scoring fast and often in the 1st half. Force them into playing catch up.

Well, the Cowboys did that to the Bears and they just kept running. They didn't panic.

Yet another chapter in What Do I Know?

Of course, it could have just been that they were afraid the Cowboys defense would pin their ears back and traumatize Fields for his entire career.

 

[JBond]

Our DE's get up the field too quick. I've been saying that every since we switched back to the 4-3. They leave gaping holes in between them and the DT's. That's why I prefer the two gap system with DE's that can stand their ground. If we really wanted to stop the run, we'd have to play Golston and Osa at DE together.



LDE -Golston

3T.DT -Watkins

1T.DT -Hankins

RDE -Osa

That's your run stuffing front four right there.

Little extreme. Maybe short yardage. Having all the big boys allows the outside edges to be exploited. Same problem we have now.

 

[JBond]

This has been true all year. The inside run defense has been okay.



But we have to understand why the outside runs work so well against Dallas. I think we saw some of it Sunday. Lawrence loses contain constantly. He jumps inside on the fake handoffs and they run around him. He has been doing this forever. If he guesses right and the QB hands the ball off to the RB, he make what looks like a nice play. But if the QB keeps it and runs outside, or it's a sweep there is no contain and it goes for at least 10 yards. He needs to stay more disciplined and trust his teammates to do their jobs on the middle. I have said this a million times but Lawrence needs to watch tape of Demarcus Ware. No one ran outside Ware successfully..



Golston is not very good. He gets shoved around by TEs and he is too slow to chase down faster RBs and QBs running around him.



There hasn't been enough plays to sample, but what I have seen is Sam Williams is the best DE they have at cutting those outside plays off. He has the quickness to recover when he gets too inside and he can outrun RBs if he has to. Armstrong has not been as strong against the outside runs as I thought he would be and Fowler is really more of a pass rusher, although he is not awful. The Cowboys are very aggressive on defense and that is why I think they lose contain on the outside runs. On a few passing plays they left Fields with huge holes to runs through because they did not stay in their rushing lanes.



But it is also the LBs. LVE made a great play Sunday running through the hole and forcing the RB deeper and more outside where he was tackled for a loss. We do not see that enough from him. He is slow to the hole and often gets picked off by an offensive linemen because he waits to charge. Barr has been disappointing too.



My controversial thoughts are that Trysten Hill would benefit the run game playing next to Hankins. Hill is quicker than Gallimore and can penetrate at times to disrupt the play. Gallimore has nothing moving laterally and neither does Hankins. Osa Odighizuwa gets bullied sometimes on running plays.



I keep saying that Cox should be getting some plays at LB. The little time he played last year he showed he has tremendous sideline to sideline speed and he is a good tackler. I would love to see some plays with Clark and Cox while LVE and Barr get a rest. Clark needs more time getting used to the NFL game but he and Cox add speed and instincts to the defense.

Agree with 90% of this. Just a reminder Hill is no longer a Cowboy.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

Little extreme. Maybe short yardage. Having all the big boys allows the outside edges to be exploited. Same problem we have now.

A RB can get up the field in the B gap way quicker than an outside run. You always want to make a RB run parallel to the LOS. And that's were our speed on defense comes in at. So it's not as extreme as you think. Because it's not like the DE's are just going to sit in one spot and just let the RB go around them.

 

[DanA]

Perhaps, but I think more so it wears down opponents.

We might not have a top ten front seven but we quite possibly have the deepest rotation.

I agree that our defense to a fair extent is built to withstand it (deep rotation), and our offense benefits so as I mentioned, not sure it needs to change. But there is benefit to guys like Micah and D-law so if we can get some big leads the I see no reason why we should try slowing things down a bit.

 

[quickccc]

Nope, that doesn't explain it. Our opponents have run the ball just six more times (total) this season than we have and the Bears who run the ball more than anybody are 20th for time in possession. We


I don't necessarily think it will change unless Kellen Moore changes how the offense operates. There is no doubt Dak plays better in a hurry up offense and if we score more than it's ultimately a good outcome but I think we have to acknowledge that it comes at the cost of wearing down our defense. .

Maybe it depends upon where we're getting TOP stats from,.. one site may say 31st, whereas others giving different indications

https://www.lineups.com/nfl/time-of-possession

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/nfl-2022-time-of-possession

 

[DanA]

Maybe it depends upon where we're getting TOP stats from,.. one site may say 31st, whereas others giving different indications

https://www.lineups.com/nfl/time-of-possession

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/nfl-2022-time-of-possession

Fair point. To be honest I just googled "time in posession, NFL" and took the first one which was https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/average-time-of-possession-net-of-ot?date=2022-11-03

I did not expect there to be a variance in what I thought was a basic stat.

 

[quickccc]

Our DE's get up the field too quick. I've been saying that every since we switched back to the 4-3. They leave gaping holes in between them and the DT's. That's why I prefer the two gap system with DE's that can stand their ground. If we really wanted to stop the run, we'd have to play Golston and Osa at DE together.

LDE -Golston
3T.DT -Watkins
1T.DT -Hankins
RDE -Osa

That's your run stuffing front four right there.

oh Laaaawd, .. lol, you're benching your best pure DE, .and best run stuffing presence in DLaw ?

Little wonder we'd struggle even more,.. and Watkins over Gallimore ?

Whether one or two gaps, 4-3 or 3-4, or Hybrid, i need interior penetrating and getting into the backfield, disrupting run lanes and pushing the pocket back into the QB.

 

[kskboys]

D-line is a rotation, but No way I'm prioritizing Golston/Osa over Tank. No way, now how.



We did that just fine Sunday. 3.4 yards per carry allowed w/inside runs.

Yup. Hankins already making a monstrous difference!!!!

 

[kskboys]

Little extreme. Maybe short yardage. Having all the big boys allows the outside edges to be exploited. Same problem we have now.

Not really. Having the big boys takes away part of the field so it's now much easier to defend outside runs.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

oh Laaaawd, .. lol, you're benching your best pure DE, .and best run stuffing presence in DLaw ?

Little wonder we'd struggle even more,.. and Watkins over Gallimore ?

Whether one or two gaps, 4-3 or 3-4, or Hybrid, i need interior penetrating and getting into the backfield, disrupting run lanes and pushing the pocket back into the QB.

Ever heard of a little thing called situational football? If a team has a lead on us and they're trying to run the clock out...we should play our best run stopping set.

 

[Stsinaz12]

D-line is a rotation, but No way I'm prioritizing Golston/Osa over Tank. No way, now how.



We did that just fine Sunday. 3.4 yards per carry allowed w/inside runs.

No im moving them or one of them to RE ON running downs.

 

[reddyuta]

imo it's too late for this season.Barr and lve are too slow to contain outside runs.maybe Clark can help but he is a rookie.

 

[quickccc]

Ever heard of a little thing called situational football? If a team has a lead on us and they're trying to run the clock out...we should play our best run stopping set.

Why would we have the best run stopper, our most complete DE on the team as a " situational" player ?

And DLaw is among and leads our " best run stopping set "

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

Why would we have the best run stopper, our most complete DE on the team as a " situational" player ?

And DLaw is among and leads our " best run stopping set "

Did DLaw play in our playoff loss to the Rams? Did DLaw play in our playoff loss to the 49ers? How'd he do against the Bears last week? Every time I saw him he was in the backfield and the RB was running right by him.

DLaw plays the run when he feels like it.

 

[Runwildboys]

Did DLaw play in our playoff loss to the Rams? Did DLaw play in our playoff loss to the 49ers? How'd he do against the Bears last week? Every time I saw him he was in the backfield and the RB was running right by him.

DLaw plays the run when he feels like it.

Most of the runs that went by him were the QB. He was usually going after the right guy, but he overran him almost every time. I'm hoping DQ has all the guys working on containment during the next two weeks.

 

[Pass2Run]

I said this like 5 minutes after the game, when many were crying like children about it.

The yards they gave up on the ground was by design, so to speak, because they were playing the pass on 3rd and longs.. and then the Bears would run the ball.

Really nothing to see here. I'm glad Quinn sticks to his bend to break philosophy even if it's not the most impressive thing on the stat sheet.

The only thing that counts is the score...

 

[quickccc]

It’s not the players on the edge that’s the issue
It’s the scheme that Quinn wants
He wants all out pass rush to disrupt the passing game and he’s willing to sacrifice rush yards to get it, and it’s worked fairly well

https://www.lineups.com/nfl-team-rankings/defense

sounds like rod marinnelli ....we rank 20th vs run ....
and the Cowboys have allowed at least 117 yards on the ground in six of their eight games..... " and it's worked fairly well ? "

Go figure

 

[xwalker]

This thread will serve up surprises. When I discovered this...half of my brain detonated out the left ear. Goopy stuff. Smells funny.

Everyone knows the Bears ran for 240 on us Sunday! Our team's manhood was brought into question, right? Get on the phone quick, Stephen. We need a few more 350 pound DTs and maybe a couple 290 pound run-stuffing power linebackers. Fix this or playoff hopes are doomed. Right?

HOW DO WE FIX THIS!?

Here from All-22 and Pro-Football-Reference the mind-bending game data:

Bears Running Game up until garbage time* :
Inside Runs: 3.4 yards per carry**
Outside Runs/ QB Scrambles: 8.2 yards per carry***

Let us summarize for emphasis:
Dallas mostly throttled interior runs, but was gashed on jet sweeps and QB scrambles! Big gains had little to do with the big bodies. 100% opposite most fan's assumptions.

To further explore here in this thread:
-Is the key to better fun defense a power issue, a speed issue...or something else?
-Who is to blame on the roster right now for lapses? How bad is this, really?
-Can I get brain goop re-implanted? Need all I got.

---
*Garbage time = anything after Cowboys took 42-23 lead:
**17 carries for 57 yards
*** 11 for 90 yards

 

[GORICO]

This thread will serve up surprises. When I discovered this...half of my brain detonated out the left ear. Goopy stuff. Smells funny.

Everyone knows the Bears ran for 240 on us Sunday! Our team's manhood was brought into question, right? Get on the phone quick, Stephen. We need a few more 350 pound DTs and maybe a couple 290 pound run-stuffing power linebackers. Fix this or playoff hopes are doomed. Right?

HOW DO WE FIX THIS!?

Here from All-22 and Pro-Football-Reference the mind-bending game data:

Bears Running Game up until garbage time* :
Inside Runs: 3.4 yards per carry**
Outside Runs/ QB Scrambles: 8.2 yards per carry***

Let us summarize for emphasis:
Dallas mostly throttled interior runs, but was gashed on jet sweeps and QB scrambles! Big gains had little to do with the big bodies. 100% opposite most fan's assumptions.

To further explore here in this thread:
-Is the key to better fun defense a power issue, a speed issue...or something else?
-Who is to blame on the roster right now for lapses? How bad is this, really?
-Can I get brain goop re-implanted? Need all I got.

---
*Garbage time = anything after Cowboys took 42-23 lead:
**17 carries for 57 yards
*** 11 for 90 yards

i like "the other"....how about we defensively scheme smarter next time?.....take a hard hitting kinda cheetah...is Wilson out for season ( forget ? ) and keep a spy or two some of the time

run nickel ands sometimes dime bring fast tacklers down on both ends....just a thought...no we dont need more fatties