CFZ Fixing Cowboys Run Defense: Opposite what you may think

[T-RO]

Wanted to drop something else that blew my brain.

Yards allowed per carry 2022:
Cowboys, 4.7
Eagles, 5.2

By logic of fans here: Eagles suck and have zero shot.

Do want to add that Creeper and others here have raised multiple top level some points I want to explore. But on my peculiar schedule: time for bed.

 

[Stash]

I think most of us knew that the outside runs (many of which were going around DLaw) were where the majority of our ineptness showed. Hankins did a pretty good job in the middle when he was in.

Talk to Demarcus Lawrence about fixing the run defense.

 

[blueblood70]

This thread will serve up surprises. When I discovered this...half of my brain detonated out the left ear. Goopy stuff. Smells funny.

Everyone knows the Bears ran for 240 on us Sunday! Our team's manhood was brought into question, right? Get on the phone quick, Stephen. We need a few more 350 pound DTs and maybe a couple 290 pound run-stuffing power linebackers. Fix this or playoff hopes are doomed. Right?

HOW DO WE FIX THIS!?

Here from All-22 and Pro-Football-Reference the mind-bending game data:

Bears Running Game up until garbage time* :
Inside Runs: 3.4 yards per carry**
Outside Runs/ QB Scrambles: 8.2 yards per carry***

Let us summarize for emphasis:
Dallas mostly throttled interior runs, but was gashed on jet sweeps and QB scrambles! Big gains had little to do with the big bodies. 100% opposite most fan's assumptions.

To further explore here in this thread:
-Is the key to better fun defense a power issue, a speed issue...or something else?
-Who is to blame on the roster right now for lapses? How bad is this, really?
-Can I get brain goop re-implanted? Need all I got.

---
*Garbage time = anything after Cowboys took 42-23 lead:
**17 carries for 57 yards
*** 11 for 90 yards

that exactly how i viewed it as well..its an outlier, we need to improve but judging us solely on that game is futile. the refs also extended many drives creating then defense to be out on the field longer and got gassed at times.

a concern , yes big concern, NO...

 

[blueblood70]

Wanted to drop something else that blew my brain.

Yards allowed per carry 2022:
Cowboys, 4.7
Eagles, 5.2

By logic of fans here: Eagles suck and have zero shot.

Do want to add that Creeper and others here have raised multiple top level some points I want to explore. But on my peculiar schedule: time for bed.

and they added Quinn hes run stuffing HOF prospect

 

[Hennessy_King]

coaches are dumb. micah should not be playing DE on rushing downs put him at off ball and let him roam. Also vander trash and barr are not quick enough to get to the edges

 

[Verdict]

This has been true all year. The inside run defense has been okay.

But we have to understand why the outside runs work so well against Dallas. I think we saw some of it Sunday. Lawrence loses contain constantly. He jumps inside on the fake handoffs and they run around him. He has been doing this forever. If he guesses right and the QB hands the ball off to the RB, he make what looks like a nice play. But if the QB keeps it and runs outside, or it's a sweep there is no contain and it goes for at least 10 yards. He needs to stay more disciplined and trust his teammates to do their jobs on the middle. I have said this a million times but Lawrence needs to watch tape of Demarcus Ware. No one ran outside Ware successfully..

Golston is not very good. He gets shoved around by TEs and he is too slow to chase down faster RBs and QBs running around him.

There hasn't been enough plays to sample, but what I have seen is Sam Williams is the best DE they have at cutting those outside plays off. He has the quickness to recover when he gets too inside and he can outrun RBs if he has to. Armstrong has not been as strong against the outside runs as I thought he would be and Fowler is really more of a pass rusher, although he is not awful. The Cowboys are very aggressive on defense and that is why I think they lose contain on the outside runs. On a few passing plays they left Fields with huge holes to runs through because they did not stay in their rushing lanes.

But it is also the LBs. LVE made a great play Sunday running through the hole and forcing the RB deeper and more outside where he was tackled for a loss. We do not see that enough from him. He is slow to the hole and often gets picked off by an offensive linemen because he waits to charge. Barr has been disappointing too.

My controversial thoughts are that Trysten Hill would benefit the run game playing next to Hankins. Hill is quicker than Gallimore and can penetrate at times to disrupt the play. Gallimore has nothing moving laterally and neither does Hankins. Osa Odighizuwa gets bullied sometimes on running plays.

I keep saying that Cox should be getting some plays at LB. The little time he played last year he showed he has tremendous sideline to sideline speed and he is a good tackler. I would love to see some plays with Clark and Cox while LVE and Barr get a rest. Clark needs more time getting used to the NFL game but he and Cox add speed and instincts to the defense.

Isn’t Cox still hampered by injury? Is he back to full speed?

 

[quickccc]

I think there are a host of issues contributing

1. Our edge rushers are playing very aggressive football at the expense of setting the edge (I'm okay with that)
2. Our DTs are allowing linemen to get to the second level too often (Hankins should help)
3. Our LBs are a little slow to diagnose and split the gap/wade through the trash (hoping Clarke helps)
4. Refs have missed some egregious holds (in particular Micah) and it has allowed some big runs (luck of the draw, should even out)
5. We tend to play up-tempo offense which keeps our defense on the field and less rested (No reason why we can't with our TE's and run game)
6. Our corners aren't the best at playing the run (think Okudah)

I think Dan Quinn can have our edge rushers play a bit more disciplined and with Hankins contributing to the second level being cleaner for our LB's it should get better but it's not a silver bullet.

Disagree with your No #5,..
We’re running the ball,. making an effort to run the ball . that’s ball control, that’s taking time off the clock, that’s keeping opposing offense off the field less,
and our own defense off the field less- that’s actually helping our defense – not hurting them. Not exposing them.

- If it was a pass happy frenzy, every down and series while hurry tempo, I could see it totally different.

- Our right DEs and DTs are not anchoring and sustaining their ground- and we have off the LBs that are not making the differences, they are liabilities.
LVE is not looking instinctive and physical enuff vs run, ..and Barr looks slow.

- To some point I think it’s a player personnel issues, to some point I’m starting to believe it’s a scheme, gap integrity issue.

 

[quickccc]

4.Refs have missed some egregious holds (in particular Micah) and it has allowed some big runs (luck of the draw, should even out)
.

- What I definitely do not want to get re-started again is blaming the refs to where we allow it to be a distraction.

Such that we take it/took to the media in blaming and pointing fingers at the refs for our own flaws and shortcomings.
That leads to a loser’s mentality. We're pleading for the refs to help us because we're not good enuff as a team to make up the difference.
Every team in NFL has to deal with forever questioned ref official calls around the NFL.

But all these dumb and constant penalties that seem to keep occurring on a weekly basis with this team,.. that should better be in our control, ..in our hands.

 

[Proof]

lol. the first post in this thread read like those clickbait articles you see "OPPOSING OFFENSIVE COORDINATORS DONT WANT YOU TO KNOW THIS SECRET"

good stuff

 

[DanTanna]

LBs are supposed to stop all runs at the LOS, right? They aren't doing it. End of story.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Our DE's get up the field too quick. I've been saying that every since we switched back to the 4-3. They leave gaping holes in between them and the DT's. That's why I prefer the two gap system with DE's that can stand their ground. If we really wanted to stop the run, we'd have to play Golston and Osa at DE together.

LDE -Golston
3T.DT -Watkins
1T.DT -Hankins
RDE -Osa

That's your run stuffing front four right there.

Dan Quinn doesn't want to stop the run as much as he wants sacks.

 

[kskboys]

This thread will serve up surprises. When I discovered this...half of my brain detonated out the left ear. Goopy stuff. Smells funny.

Everyone knows the Bears ran for 240 on us Sunday! Our team's manhood was brought into question, right? Get on the phone quick, Stephen. We need a few more 350 pound DTs and maybe a couple 290 pound run-stuffing power linebackers. Fix this or playoff hopes are doomed. Right?

HOW DO WE FIX THIS!?

Here from All-22 and Pro-Football-Reference the mind-bending game data:

Bears Running Game up until garbage time* :
Inside Runs: 3.4 yards per carry**
Outside Runs/ QB Scrambles: 8.2 yards per carry***

Let us summarize for emphasis:
Dallas mostly throttled interior runs, but was gashed on jet sweeps and QB scrambles! Big gains had little to do with the big bodies. 100% opposite most fan's assumptions.

To further explore here in this thread:
-Is the key to better fun defense a power issue, a speed issue...or something else?
-Who is to blame on the roster right now for lapses? How bad is this, really?
-Can I get brain goop re-implanted? Need all I got.

---
*Garbage time = anything after Cowboys took 42-23 lead:
**17 carries for 57 yards
*** 11 for 90 yards

You didn't carry your analysis far enough.

Here's another brain explosion for you: When Hankins played, they average 3 something YPC. Think hard, dude. When the big DT was in the game, they couldn't run the ball. THINK HARD!!!!!

 

[kskboys]

LBs are supposed to stop all runs at the LOS, right? They aren't doing it. End of story.

No, they're not.

 

[Cowboyny]

This thread will serve up surprises. When I discovered this...half of my brain detonated out the left ear. Goopy stuff. Smells funny.

Everyone knows the Bears ran for 240 on us Sunday! Our team's manhood was brought into question, right? Get on the phone quick, Stephen. We need a few more 350 pound DTs and maybe a couple 290 pound run-stuffing power linebackers. Fix this or playoff hopes are doomed. Right?

HOW DO WE FIX THIS!?

Here from All-22 and Pro-Football-Reference the mind-bending game data:

Bears Running Game up until garbage time* :
Inside Runs: 3.4 yards per carry**
Outside Runs/ QB Scrambles: 8.2 yards per carry***

Let us summarize for emphasis:
Dallas mostly throttled interior runs, but was gashed on jet sweeps and QB scrambles! Big gains had little to do with the big bodies. 100% opposite most fan's assumptions.

To further explore here in this thread:
-Is the key to better fun defense a power issue, a speed issue...or something else?
-Who is to blame on the roster right now for lapses? How bad is this, really?
-Can I get brain goop re-implanted? Need all I got.

---
*Garbage time = anything after Cowboys took 42-23 lead:
**17 carries for 57 yards
*** 11 for 90 yards

The same outside runs killed them against the Bucs as well as Washington.

 

[conner01]

Not what I recall as consensus from game thread, or from recent threads, but maybe my I'm wrong on that.

So RWB, questions for you:
-What 2-4 players are most responsible for run-game defense issues?
-How big of a problem is it?

It’s not the players on the edge that’s the issue
It’s the scheme that Quinn wants
He wants all out pass rush to disrupt the passing game and he’s willing to sacrifice rush yards to get it, and it’s worked fairly well

 

[Doomsday]

Teams are going to run the ball a lot vs the Cowboys because the last thing they want to do is get in obvious passing situations vs Dallas' pass rush.

 

[Creeper]

Isn’t Cox still hampered by injury? Is he back to full speed?

No. He is supposedly healthy now.

 

[Starstruck22]

This has been true all year. The inside run defense has been okay.

But we have to understand why the outside runs work so well against Dallas. I think we saw some of it Sunday. Lawrence loses contain constantly. He jumps inside on the fake handoffs and they run around him. He has been doing this forever. If he guesses right and the QB hands the ball off to the RB, he make what looks like a nice play. But if the QB keeps it and runs outside, or it's a sweep there is no contain and it goes for at least 10 yards. He needs to stay more disciplined and trust his teammates to do their jobs on the middle. I have said this a million times but Lawrence needs to watch tape of Demarcus Ware. No one ran outside Ware successfully..

Golston is not very good. He gets shoved around by TEs and he is too slow to chase down faster RBs and QBs running around him.

There hasn't been enough plays to sample, but what I have seen is Sam Williams is the best DE they have at cutting those outside plays off. He has the quickness to recover when he gets too inside and he can outrun RBs if he has to. Armstrong has not been as strong against the outside runs as I thought he would be and Fowler is really more of a pass rusher, although he is not awful. The Cowboys are very aggressive on defense and that is why I think they lose contain on the outside runs. On a few passing plays they left Fields with huge holes to runs through because they did not stay in their rushing lanes.

But it is also the LBs. LVE made a great play Sunday running through the hole and forcing the RB deeper and more outside where he was tackled for a loss. We do not see that enough from him. He is slow to the hole and often gets picked off by an offensive linemen because he waits to charge. Barr has been disappointing too.

My controversial thoughts are that Trysten Hill would benefit the run game playing next to Hankins. Hill is quicker than Gallimore and can penetrate at times to disrupt the play. Gallimore has nothing moving laterally and neither does Hankins. Osa Odighizuwa gets bullied sometimes on running plays.

I keep saying that Cox should be getting some plays at LB. The little time he played last year he showed he has tremendous sideline to sideline speed and he is a good tackler. I would love to see some plays with Clark and Cox while LVE and Barr get a rest. Clark needs more time getting used to the NFL game but he and Cox add speed and instincts to the defense.

LVE and Barr are disasters. We are not winning the division or headed to any playoff games with this. They are Jerry’s thrift store mentality secondary to having to over pay other thrift store players exorbitant sums of money.

 

[Runwildboys]

The commentators kept banging on about how Chicago never gives up, yet they employed a strategy that was only ever going to lead to defeat.
Even if Your QB is poor at throwing the ball, you have to at least give it a go, especially with half the opposition secondary leaving the game injured.

Maybe it was Fields who refused to throw the ball. I don't know if he needs wide open receivers to try passing, or what his deal is, but after watching them beat NE last week, I can't imagine they're tanking.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

Dan Quinn doesn't want to stop the run as much as he wants sacks.

True, but he has to adjust to his counterpoints sometimes. Moore and Dak might not have the offense hitting on all cylinders one game.

I've seen him have the guys lockdown the run earlier this year, so I hope we can do that when needed.