Ravens put non exclusive franchise tag on Lamar Jackson

[Steve007]

The ravens haven't invested in the offense around him, especially the protection.

I work in Baltimore and the locals aren’t happy about this. They said Lamar reignited the the ravens after Flacco flamed out.

If the ravens paid Lamar Watson money they would never be able to build around him.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

How you gonna have a team sport snd pay one guy as much as the rest of the team?

Because that is the market between consenting parties. And that is straight hyperbole. The cap is over $200m.

The party that is earning as much as the rest of the team is ownership.

 

[Flamma]

Agreed there's zero percent chance Philly would take him. They already have a QB who's younger and better and proved he can handle the pressure of the playoffs.

In all fairness, had the Ravens played a crap giants team, and a team without a QB in the playoffs, they would have gone to the Super Bowl too.

Hurts is just a younger version of Jackson. Both had success based off of a great run game. Without that great run game, they won't have much success.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

In all fairness, had the Ravens played a crap giants team, and a team without a QB in the playoffs, they would have gone to the Super Bowl too.

Hurts is just a younger version of Jackson. Both had success based off of a great run game. Without that great run game, they won't have much success.

I was hugely negative about Hurts after last season, but after this season I realize I was 100% wrong. He needs to be taken seriously, and he's clearly better than Jackson. He's already in a different league than him as a passer, is younger, is improving, and is dedicated to his craft. He also showed he can play under the most intense pressure the NFL offers, which very few QB's have shown they can do. Your points about who the Eagles played in the playoffs are fair, but they still won. And you are conveniently leaving out the KC game where Hurts went up against the best QB since Brady and came within a whisker (and arguably a terrible PI call) of leading his team to a SB victory.

 

[cnuball21]

It’s odd that more teams aren’t trying for it but I don’t think it’s crazy that no one wants to give him a dump truck or money.

I think he’s a stud, but a little more flash than substance. Injured twice out of the last few seasons and hasn’t been able to get the Ravens over the hump. Granted - his WR room is about as good as ours so he is getting the Dak treatment.

 

[Flamma]

I was hugely negative about Hurts after last season, but after this season I realize I was 100% wrong. He needs to be taken seriously, and he's clearly better than Jackson. He's already in a different league than him as a passer, is younger, is improving, and is dedicated to his craft. He also showed he can play under the most intense pressure the NFL offers, which very few QB's have shown they can do. Your points about who the Eagles played in the playoffs are fair, but they still won. And you are conveniently leaving out the KC game where Hurts went up against the best QB since Brady and came within a whisker (and arguably a terrible PI call) of leading his team to a SB victory.

Here's my thing about Hurts, and I pretty much learned it from Jackson. Jackson had the best season of his career back in 2019, and won MVP. His passing stats were great. But he, like Hurts, had a dominant run game using the RPO with himself included. Just about every time he dropped back to pass, it was against defenses selling out for, or cheating up against the run. As soon as the Titans stopped the run without selling out, Lamar was lost.

The Eagles run game isn't going to be as powerful every year. Lamar had one season. Until I see Hurts carve up the field without the benefit of that run game, my opinion of him isn't changing. Because at some point it's going to happen, and when it does, he'll look more like the Hurts we saw against TB last year in the playoffs.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

Here's my thing about Hurts, and I pretty much learned it from Jackson. Jackson had the best season of his career back in 2019, and won MVP. His passing stats were great. But he, like Hurts, had a dominant run game using the RPO with himself included. Just about every time he dropped back to pass, it was against defenses selling out for, or cheating up against the run. As soon as the Titans stopped the run without selling out, Lamar was lost.

The Eagles run game isn't going to be as powerful every year. Lamar had one season. Until I see Hurts carve up the field without the benefit of that run game, my opinion of him isn't changing. Because at some point it's going to happen, and when it does, he'll look more like the Hurts we saw against TB last year in the playoffs.

I guess we shall see. I have done such a 180 on Hurts I can't overestimate how much he has moved up in my opinion. The Hurts from 2 years ago is gone forever. He's just a better player now. Eagles will always have a good run game I think because they prioritize the OL in the draft and they have a number of good young players already. And Hurts is very good with his legs which isn't changing anytime soon. Plus - he has poise and is improving. I would agree with those who say eventually he's going to get hurt running the ball, but who cares if they get say 3 more good years out of him where he's mostly healthy? It's almost better that way because then you can start the rebuilding process, which they've already shown they can do.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Who wouldn't be lining up to give 2 1st rounders for Jackson?

For comparison Denver gave up just last year to get Russell Wilson.....

• 2022 9th overall pick
• 2022 40th overall pick
• 2023 1st rounder
• 2022 2nd rounders (2)
• Noah Fant
• Drew Lock
• Shelby Harris

I think the issue is the contract demand. I'm not 100% sure, but I've heard he wants a fully guaranteed deal

 

[thunderpimp91]

I think the issue is the contract demand. I'm not 100% sure, but I've heard he wants a fully guaranteed deal

And I'm sure that plays a part in it. I've also heard some people believe him being is own agent is a factor that turns teams off as well. Still Deshaun Watson got a fully guaranteed 5/$230M contract and the Browns gave up 3 1st rounders, a 3rd, and a 5th to give him that deal.

I'm shocked that teams aren't jumping at the opportunity to at least talk with him for just 2 1st which is way below what teams gave up for QBs just a year ago.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

And I'm sure that plays a part in it. I've also heard some people believe him being is own agent is a factor that turns teams off as well. Still Deshaun Watson got a fully guaranteed 5/$230M contract and the Browns gave up 3 1st rounders, a 3rd, and a 5th to give him that deal.

I'm shocked that teams aren't jumping at the opportunity to at least talk with him for just 2 1st which is way below what teams gave up for QBs just a year ago.

I like Jackson, but if I'm a team in the top 10 I don't. Not because I don't believe in him, I just think adding a QB on a deal like that *and* not having FRPs hampers your ability to improve. I'd sell seats but I don't know if I could put a team around him.
The teams in the playoffs all have pretty stable QB situations. TB is in flux, but I think they're declining and a future number 1 could be a high pick, especially if Jackson gets hurt.
Baltimore is obviously the only team in the playoffs who I'd argue would be worth it to sign, but they don't seem to want to.

Teams that I think should if they can afford it: Tennessee, Jets (If they can't get Rogers), Commanders, Steelers, Lions

Not sure how many if any have already said they are out

 

[Flamma]

I guess we shall see. I have done such a 180 on Hurts I can't overestimate how much he has moved up in my opinion. The Hurts from 2 years ago is gone forever. He's just a better player now. Eagles will always have a good run game I think because they prioritize the OL in the draft and they have a number of good young players already. And Hurts is very good with his legs which isn't changing anytime soon. Plus - he has poise and is improving. I would agree with those who say eventually he's going to get hurt running the ball, but who cares if they get say 3 more good years out of him where he's mostly healthy? It's almost better that way because then you can start the rebuilding process, which they've already shown they can do.

If they can keep this up, I would agree. But I'm of the opinion that Justin Fields can run the Philly offense just as good. He just doesn't have the team around him. Hurts has two great wideouts and a very good TE. That along with a really good OL. Chicago doesn't have that.

I have always been a Daniel Jones apologist. Don't get mw wrong, I don't think he's a great QB, just that he never had a chance. I always thought he was a decent QB. Team and coaching around you matters. Tua didn't just miraculously improve. They got a good coaching staff and two great wideouts. As soon as they pay Hurts market value, they have a 1 or 2 year window before it's shut. Once Hurts gets that big cap hit, any chance at a SB appearance ends.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

If they can keep this up, I would agree. But I'm of the opinion that Justin Fields can run the Philly offense just as good. He just doesn't have the team around him. Hurts has two great wideouts and a very good TE. That along with a really good OL. Chicago doesn't have that.

I have always been a Daniel Jones apologist. Don't get mw wrong, I don't think he's a great QB, just that he never had a chance. I always thought he was a decent QB. Team and coaching around you matters. Tua didn't just miraculously improve. They got a good coaching staff and two great wideouts. As soon as they pay Hurts market value, they have a 1 or 2 year window before it's shut. Once Hurts gets that big cap hit, any chance at a SB appearance ends.

I don't think I disagree too much with any of that. The thing Hurts has done which Fields hasn't is show he can play under intense pressure, but I agree Fields may become a very good QB and may prove he can do that - who knows. And I would agree the Eagles window will take a serious hit once Hurts gets paid - unless he can keep improving, which can't be ruled out. Mahomes just smashed the record for a SB winning QB taking up a large percentage of the cap, so who knows.

 

[Flamma]

I don't think I disagree too much with any of that. The thing Hurts has done which Fields hasn't is show he can play under intense pressure, but I agree Fields may become a very good QB and may prove he can do that - who knows. And I would agree the Eagles window will take a serious hit once Hurts gets paid - unless he can keep improving, which can't be ruled out. Mahomes just smashed the record for a SB winning QB taking up a large percentage of the cap, so who knows.

I agree with you. The time of the drop back QBs are not the only game in town anymore. I just think sometimes people give too much credit to QBs for team success. Dak's rookie season is a pretty good example of that. Matt Stafford didn't get any better. Another example.

 

[Kevinicus]

Because that is the market between consenting parties. And that is straight hyperbole. The cap is over $200m.

The party that is earning as much as the rest of the team is ownership.

Not quite. Ownership has a lot of other expenses players don't have to deal with after they get their cut.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Not quite. Ownership has a lot of other expenses players don't have to deal with after they get their cut.

And that is accounted for in the CBA before the split.

 

[Kevinicus]

And that is accounted for in the CBA before the split.

Not according to the NFLPA.

• Also, the way we defined revenue changed in 2011. Before 2011, NFL owners could deduct expenses from the players’ revenue share. In 2011, players negotiated to eliminate those expense deductions, shifting from essentially a net/profit share to a gross revenue share system.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Not according to the NFLPA.

That is not the CBA. The below is the CBA and linked. It describes deductions of up to $182m.

An expense deduction for the reasonable and customary direct costs and initial investment (collectively, “direct costs”) for projects in new lines of business of NFL Ventures may be taken, subject to the following rules: (A) Absent NFLPA approval, there may be no more than three projects in new lines of business to receive deductions in any League Year (i.e., for the 2012 League Year, there can be three projects in new lines of business receiving deductions; for the 2013 League Year, there could be six projects in new lines of business (three that began in 2012 and three that began in 2013). (B) Absent NFLPA approval, a project in a new line of business shall not qualify for this deduction if it has more than $15,250,000 in direct costs in a League Year. This 83 limit shall increase in each League Year after the 20182 League Year by the percentage change in AR. (C) Absent NFLPA approval, there may be no more than $182,989,000 in direct costs across all projects that qualify for the deduction in the 2018 League Year (i.e., a maximum deduction of $91,495,000). For the avoidance of doubt, this Subsection (C) is subject to the requirements of Subsections (A) and (B) above. This maximum deduction amount shall increase each subsequent League Year by the same percentage increase (if any) of AR; (D) The expense deduction for the first three years of any qualifying new line of business project shall be 50% of the direct costs in each such League Year; (E) The expense deduction for years four through five of any qualifying new line of business project shall be 25% of the direct costs in each such League Year; (F) Unless the parties agree otherwise, after five years no further deductions shall be taken for any such project (and revenues from such projects shall be included in AR in the 45% bucket as described below); (G) The NFL shall provide the NFLPA with notice of the projects for which it will take the expense deduction, including the provision of business plans and budgets (subject to reasonable confidentiality and non-compete terms); (H) Pursuant to the provisions of Section 3 below, the Accountants shall review, and the NFLPA shall have audit rights regarding, such deductions to ensure their accuracy and reasonableness; (I) Deductions allowed shall be netted against related revenues, and the netting of expenses cannot result in a negative number (e.g., if 50% of the direct costs for a project exceed its revenues, the AR count for such project shall be zero). (J) For purposes of this Subsection 1(a)(xiii)(2), if the NFL adds additional International Series regular season games (i.e., more than one International Series regular season game in any given League Year), each additional International Series game shall constitute a new line of business project, and further provided that the payment made by the NFL to reimburse the participating Clubs for lost revenue (which payment is included in AR) shall not be included in determining whether such Series is subject to either of the direct cost limits referenced in Subsection (B) or (C) above.

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/NFLPA/CBA2020/NFL-NFLPA_CBA_March_5_2020.pdf

Now I do remember them limiting deductions because the NFL did not want independent accountants verifying their expense claims. They quibbled back and forth and finally settled on 47% to the players, a bunch of revenue exceptions, and the above deductions. That is besides the point though.

You are claiming that a QB is making half the cap when it is less than 20%.

 

[Kevinicus]

That is not the CBA. The below is the CBA and linked. It describes deductions of up to $182m.



https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/NFLPA/CBA2020/NFL-NFLPA_CBA_March_5_2020.pdf

Now I do remember them limiting deductions because the NFL did not want independent accountants verifying their expense claims. They quibbled back and forth and finally settled on 47% to the players, a bunch of revenue exceptions, and the above deductions. That is besides the point though.

You are claiming that a QB is making half the cap when it is less than 20%.

That is one very specific deduction that amounts to a tiny fraction of expenses incurred by the teams.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That is one very specific deduction that amounts to a tiny fraction of expenses incurred by the teams.

I like how you just ignore the rest and just respond to the part you think you can win. Of course you ignore the rest of the arguments that I have against that part too.

For example, the owners don't want their expenses deducted because they do not want to have to prove their accounting. IOW you have no idea if or how much if so expenses the owners have and they chose the disposition. Or the revenue split from a percentage standpoint favors the owners.

And then there is the original argument which was your claim that Dak takes up half the cap when it was less than a quarter.

Forest, tree. All that.

 

[Kevinicus]

I like how you just ignore the rest and just respond to the part you think you can win. Of course you ignore the rest of the arguments that I have against that part too.

For example, the owners don't want their expenses deducted because they do not want to have to prove their accounting. IOW you have no idea if or how much if so expenses the owners have and they chose the disposition. Or the revenue split from a percentage standpoint favors the owners.

And then there is the original argument which was your claim that Dak takes up half the cap when it was less than a quarter.

Forest, tree. All that.

Uh...what the hell are you talking about?