CFZ QB/Head Coach combinations

Bobhaze

Staff member
Messages
18,301
Reaction score
71,970
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Take a look at the dynasty teams of the NFL. What is it that they all have in common?

1950’s Cleveland Browns: Otto Graham / Paul Brown

1960’s Green Bay Packers: Bart Starr / Vince Lombardi

1970’s Miami Dolphins: Bob Griese / Don Shula

1970’s Pittsburgh Steelers: Terry Bradshaw / Chuck Knoll

1970’s Dallas Cowboys: Roger Staubach / Tom Landry

1970’s Minnesota Vikings: Fran Tarkenton / Bud Grant

1980’s San Francisco 49ers: Joe Montana / Bill Walsh

1980’s Denver Broncos: John Elway / Dan Reeves

1980’s Washington: multiple QB’s / Joe Gibbs

1990’s Buffalo Bills: Jim Kelly / Marc Levy

1990’s Dallas Cowboys: Troy Aikman / Jimmy Johnson

1990’s Denver Broncos: John Elway / Mike Shanahan

2000’s New England Patriots: Tom Brady / Bill Belichick

2000’s Pittsburgh Steelers: Ben Roethlisberger / Multiple Head Coaches

2010’s New England Patriots: Tom Brady / Bill Belichick

2020’s Kansas City Chiefs: Patrick Mahomes / Andy Reid

There are very few dynastic teams that didn’t rely on a unique pairing of QB and Head Coach. Defense first teams occasionally win a Super Bowl, but none became dynasties without a head coach / QB combination on the other side of the ball. Even losing dynasties like the Cowboys and Vikings, who combined for 9 of the 10 Super Bowls in the 1970’s, the 1980 Broncos and 1990’s Bills relied on QB / Head Coach combinations to get to 3 or more Super Bowls in a decade.

There are not many coaches like Bill Parcells and Joe Gibbs who’ve won with different QB’s. And there are very few QB’s, such as Joe Montana, Troy Aikman and Tom Brady who’ve won with multiple hard coaches.

The relationship between the QB and Head Coach is the key relationship that leads to championships; and in almost every case, the Head Coach got to choose his dynastic QB.

The Cowboys current Head Coach Mike McCarthy didn’t get to choose his QB. Nevertheless, if the current edition of the Cowboys is to ever win a Super Bowl, then the relationship between Dak and McCarthy will be why. That is one reason that Cowboys fans should be gratified that McCarthy is going to be calling the plays. If Dak cannot win with McCarthy, it is unlikely that he’ll ever become a winner. But at least he has a chance now that Garrett and Moore are gone. And Dak is the last chance McCarthy will get to become a great Head Coach.
Good post. Appreciate the work. And I think you’re touching on something that has given me some hope despite the last 27 consecutive seasons. Having a head coach who is in charge of his players, makes what he expects from them clear, and is allowed to “hard coach“ them up gives us a chance to get relevant come playoff time. Mike McCarthy is the best coach we’ve had since the Tuna.
 

Whyjerry

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,289
Reaction score
26,531
The great HC / QB combo is the surest path to greatness in the NFL. Time and again it’s proven.

The Kellen Moore support is mind boggling to me. Dallas is solid on the OL. Good skill guys. Good QB. He should score with all that. Kellen Moore 5 wide first and goal from the 4 yard line plus his demonstrated inability to handle a good defense is why he got the axe. The guy is a goober and not a leader of men. At all. Good riddance.
 

CowboyoWales

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,480
Reaction score
4,728
The Cowboys current Head Coach Mike McCarthy didn’t get to choose his QB. Nevertheless, if the current edition of the Cowboys is to ever win a Super Bowl, then the relationship between Dak and McCarthy will be why. That is one reason that Cowboys fans should be gratified that McCarthy is going to be calling the plays. If Dak cannot win with McCarthy, it is unlikely that he’ll ever become a winner. But at least he has a chance now that Garrett and Moore are gone. And Dak is the last chance McCarthy will get to become a great Head Coach.
Interesting take. You could go a stage further, do you start with the QB or OC/HC, do you play the game which suits the QB or the OC's playbook design. Lets be fair a lot of us would say the MM WCO better suits Dak's game/aptitude rather than the complex scheme that KM developed where schemes HOPEFULLY designed someone open and Dak would/could got through the progressions (sometimes a couple of times) before's there's separation.

I agree MM's scheme could well be the making of Dak.
 

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
58,100
Reaction score
38,719
While the HC/QB is a valid point I’m just not sure Prescott is worthy of mention in this comparison or group?
 

75boyz

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,638
Reaction score
10,465
While the HC/QB is a valid point I’m just not sure Prescott is worthy of mention in this comparison or group?
Exactly. My post is the same if ya scroll up a few. Spot on.
And I took it a step further and included the head coach as well but many here see McCarthy as a far better coach than I do.
 

blueblood70

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,841
Reaction score
28,549
A lot of work to post an anti-Dak thread.
he tried to hide it, it fell short. Marino never won a sb and hes elite and his HC was one of the best,, best comp is that duo with Dak and all coaches. Takes team to win Elway needed a run game in TD TD shoed up in the payoffs, wasnt he a sb mvp, to put him over the top we do not have a run game in any of the 3 playoff losses. Facts OL/RUN game goes MIA against the best defenses, thats why Moore and most of the offensive staff was released. they aren't Getting it done and it effects qb play..

this Isint about the qb/HC, its about the team some years it was lack of defense for romo or dak, then lack of good play caller with the run game and OL, thats been they #1 issue last 3 playoff looses. facts, go check when did Aikman ever win without ES22 being there with great OL working together through a playoff run.it was in fact a great team mostly the run game/OL plus defense that helped Aikman succeed.

KC losing the sb in the first half, ran it down the eagles throats and gave up no sacks =WIN! they didn't lean on PM they used run game and won.
 

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
58,100
Reaction score
38,719
Exactly. My post is the same if ya scroll up a few. Spot on.
And I took it a step further and included the head coach as well but many here see McCarthy as a far better coach than I do.
Well, McCarthy’s proven record over his career deserves much more credit than Prescott’s.
 

INCowboysFan

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,975
Reaction score
2,655
Did the coordinator have the 2nd most talent in the league? No.

Did he have the 2nd most productive offense? Yes.

The coordinator wasn't the problem. The change simply appeased the simpletons and allowed the next scapegoat, the head coach, one more year to overachieve and win despite of the circumstances.
The OC wasn't THE problem. But he was A problem. He was a problem that could easily be eliminated (at least when compared to moving on from Dak). His game plan was too simplistic in big games and was a contributor to the offense failing in the playoffs the last 2 season.
 

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
58,100
Reaction score
38,719
For the sake of argument what if it was Moores offense that propelled Prescott to look and produce more prolific passing game numbers . And it was Dak’s performance or lack of execution which derailed or limited the results.

I guess we are fixing to find out with MM taking over offense . We’ll finally know whether it was Garrett and Moore who muddied the waters with Prescott or is the core problem Dak himself .
 

Jumbo075

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,042
Reaction score
7,535
I just can't personally tie in either the quarterbacking or coaching talent to your aforementioned list.

Some here are McCarthy groupies. I say his entire pre Dallas career is a product of Rodgers. Now this can be debated I'm told.

But what I think can not be debated is to even mention Prescott in the same talent level sentence with even ONE of those on your list.

But yes, to your OP. Past history has shown that when there is an elite QB talent and he is paired with a good to elite HC, there tends to be a correlation to teams achieving consistent post season success with that pairing.

I just can't lump the McCarthy - Dak duo into that level of talent.

Just my opinion.
I wonder if we classify both coach and qb as "elite" due to their pairing, when in fact they are not elite without one another.

In a similar way, Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones were a perfect pairing as Owner/GM/Coach. Jimmy was a good coach without Jerry, just as Jerry is an excellent business man without Jimmy. But they needed each other to be champions in the NFL. You have to wonder if Jimmy and Jerry would be talked about in the same way that Belichick and Bob Kraft are talked about if they had been able to co-exist.
 

CowboyFrog

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,271
Reaction score
11,185
I wonder if we classify both coach and qb as "elite" due to their pairing, when in fact they are not elite without one another.

In a similar way, Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones were a perfect pairing as Owner/GM/Coach. Jimmy was a good coach without Jerry, just as Jerry is an excellent business man without Jimmy. But they needed each other to be champions in the NFL. You have to wonder if Jimmy and Jerry would be talked about in the same way that Belichick and Bob Kraft are talked about if they had been able to co-exist.
I think thats the key factor which makes Bob Kraft a better owner...he can put his ego in check 95% of the time to win on the field...Jerry wont do it 5%.
 

JayFord

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,698
Reaction score
21,471
I dont think the Bills or Vikings were dynasty teams
 

Jarntt

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,929
Reaction score
6,543
Dynasty? How about we start with making an NFC Championship game...
 

Jumbo075

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,042
Reaction score
7,535
I think thats the key factor which makes Bob Kraft a better owner...he can put his ego in check 95% of the time to win on the field...Jerry wont do it 5%.
You could also argue that Belichick has more staying power than Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy never stayed at any coaching spot longer than 5 years, and admits he was burned out from the grind. It wasn't just Jerry who had an ego.
 

blueblood70

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,841
Reaction score
28,549
I wonder if we classify both coach and qb as "elite" due to their pairing, when in fact they are not elite without one another.

In a similar way, Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones were a perfect pairing as Owner/GM/Coach. Jimmy was a good coach without Jerry, just as Jerry is an excellent business man without Jimmy. But they needed each other to be champions in the NFL. You have to wonder if Jimmy and Jerry would be talked about in the same way that Belichick and Bob Kraft are talked about if they had been able to co-exist.
Yet Marino with schula and Marino with Jimmy Johnson = NO SB wins and no return to SB after rookie year?? why not LOL that was not a dynasty that was stats buying offense through the year with little playoff success. Marino 8-10 in the payoffs and Dan Marino had a passer rating of 77.1 with 4,510 yards, 32 touchdowns and 24 interceptions in 18 games in the playoffs in his career. for having 2 of the best coaches in NFL history and being inducted into the HOF and was called one of the top QBS of all time yet his 24INts doesn't seem special losing record in the playoffs also not great. seems lie double standard for Dak supposed to be great on his own.

hows that differ from Dak/garret
Dak/MM?
as said before Elway never got those big wins without TD and Aikman without Smith , our issues is the OL/RUN game last 3 playoff losses all point to needing a stronger run game in the payoffs. how about the OL not give up 11 penalties and no run game.
far more example of lessor qbs with good coaches also won sbs.
 

CowboyFrog

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,271
Reaction score
11,185
You could also argue that Belichick has more staying power than Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy never stayed at any coaching spot longer than 5 years, and admits he was burned out from the grind. It wasn't just Jerry who had an ego.
For sure Jimmy played his part to the full in it, but we all know BB has a huge Ego and its seems to me Kraft deals with it to keep him...nothing Jimmy ever did says he would have stayed had Jerry played nice though.
 

75boyz

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,638
Reaction score
10,465
I wonder if we classify both coach and qb as "elite" due to their pairing, when in fact they are not elite without one another.

In a similar way, Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones were a perfect pairing as Owner/GM/Coach. Jimmy was a good coach without Jerry, just as Jerry is an excellent business man without Jimmy. But they needed each other to be champions in the NFL. You have to wonder if Jimmy and Jerry would be talked about in the same way that Belichick and Bob Kraft are talked about if they had been able to co-exist.
Outstanding response and surely a chicken or egg type discussion as to whether a coach makes the team regardless of QB given or is it the elite QB whose talent does truly cover a lot of team warts, or thirdly as you suggest, the combination of their talents.
Simple examples favoring the coach's impact would be Joe Gibbs who managed a trophy with 3 different QBs.
The Belicheck-Brady combo did have close to equal parts influence in their prime imo but although now on the surface it appears as though Brady's influence seems much more impactful on his previous team's success.

With regards to Jerry and his 500 coaches could coach the talent I bring in and which I personally believe he stics to puppet HCs to this day(to include McCarthy), I have a very hard time giving him credit for the success other than the simple act of hiring Johnson.
IF he doesn't hire Johnson, the 90s success does not happen.
 

blueblood70

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,841
Reaction score
28,549
For sure Jimmy played his part to the full in it, but we all know BB has a huge Ego and its seems to me Kraft deals with it to keep him...nothing Jimmy ever did says he would have stayed had Jerry played nice though.
right, most think he would have stayed until say 1996-1997 most likely not doing much more than what Switzer did finishing off that eras players with a nfccg and a anther SB etc..I doubt Jimmy would have done much more.

he was a lot loke Parcells and needed new place and new challenge, nomad type coach not a Landry or BB type who are lifers.
 

Jumbo075

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,042
Reaction score
7,535
he tried to hide it, it fell short. Marino never won a sb and hes elite and his HC was one of the best,, best comp is that duo with Dak and all coaches. Takes team to win Elway needed a run game in TD TD shoed up in the payoffs, wasnt he a sb mvp, to put him over the top we do not have a run game in any of the 3 playoff losses. Facts OL/RUN game goes MIA against the best defenses, thats why Moore and most of the offensive staff was released. they aren't Getting it done and it effects qb play..

this Isint about the qb/HC, its about the team some years it was lack of defense for romo or dak, then lack of good play caller with the run game and OL, thats been they #1 issue last 3 playoff looses. facts, go check when did Aikman ever win without ES22 being there with great OL working together through a playoff run.it was in fact a great team mostly the run game/OL plus defense that helped Aikman succeed.

KC losing the sb in the first half, ran it down the eagles throats and gave up no sacks =WIN! they didn't lean on PM they used run game and won.
Marino at least made it to a Super Bowl in his 2nd season.
 
Top