Cowboys' first-team defense to start drills

[LouBrown]

Calling my argument “dumb” isn’t a counterargument. It’s what you resort to when you don’t actually have one.

You’ve had multiple chances to tell me what Winters does well and still haven’t managed it. At this point, you’re just documenting your inability to defend your own position.

Lol my argument is not that Winters is better, that is the part you are not understanding. My argument is that a "projection" is meaningless for a guy like Barham because you are projecting him to do things in the NFL that he didn't even do in college.

Can he play coverage in nickel? Can he carry TEs up the seam? Can he play any man coverage?

You don't know if he can do these things at all in the NFL and you are assuming he is better than Winters. It is dumb.

 

[DarkVader33]

Dee Winters is a career backup that won't even be a starter by midseason, and Overshown hasn't proven he can stay on the field.

He started most of last year. Did pretty well too.

 

[ChuckA1]

I think we're all excited to watch #55 bring some pain to the opposing teams this season. I'm not sure how he compares with Winters but at times, he sure looks great out there. Go Cowboys

 

[TheSport78]

Lol my argument is not that Winters is better, that is the part you are not understanding. My argument is that a "projection" is meaningless for a guy like Barham because you are projecting him to do things in the NFL that he didn't even do in college.

Can he play coverage in nickel? Can he carry TEs up the seam? Can he play any man coverage?

You don't know if he can do these things at all in the NFL and you are assuming he is better than Winters. It is dumb.

The funniest part is you just spent multiple replies arguing with me only to finally define what a projection is.

“You don’t know if he can do those things in the NFL.”

Correct. Neither do you. Nobody does. That’s why it’s a projection and not a fricking historical record.

I watched Winters play and wasn’t impressed. I watched Barham and think his traits project to being the better player. You’re free to disagree with that projection. But repeatedly screaming “YOU DON’T KNOW!” like you’ve uncovered some fatal flaw in the concept is hilarious. Of course I don’t know. If we already knew, there’d be nothing to project.

And calling the projection “meaningless” because Barham would be asked to do things he hasn’t extensively done before is even funnier. That’s literally part of scouting. You evaluate traits, athletic ability, processing, movement skills and transferable skills and project how they’ll translate into a different role at the next level.

You haven’t disproven my projection. You’ve just discovered that projections involve uncertainty and apparently gotten really mad about it.

 

[LouBrown]

The funniest part is you just spent multiple replies arguing with me only to finally define what a projection is.

“You don’t know if he can do those things in the NFL.”

Correct. Neither do you. Nobody does. That’s why it’s a projection and not a fricking historical record.

I watched Winters play and wasn’t impressed. I watched Barham and think his traits project to being the better player. You’re free to disagree with that projection. But repeatedly screaming “YOU DON’T KNOW!” like you’ve uncovered some fatal flaw in the concept is hilarious. Of course I don’t know. If we already knew, there’d be nothing to project.

And calling the projection “meaningless” because Barham would be asked to do things he hasn’t extensively done before is even funnier. That’s literally part of scouting. You evaluate traits, athletic ability, processing, movement skills and transferable skills and project how they’ll translate into a different role at the next level.

You haven’t disproven my projection. You’ve just discovered that projections involve uncertainty and apparently gotten really mad about it.

You're not a scout lol.

The scouts are the ones you are arguing with.

 

[TheSport78]

You're not a scout lol.

The scouts are the ones you are arguing with.

No kidding, Sherlock. I never claimed to be a scout. I gave an opinion about a football player on a message board.

Apparently nobody is allowed to project a player unless an NFL team has issued them official scouting credentials first.

And “you’re arguing with the scouts” isn’t an argument either. Scouts disagree constantly. Teams miss on evaluations every single year. Draft picks bust, late-round picks become stars, players change positions, and depth charts change because professional evaluations aren’t infallible.

This started with me saying I’m not high on Winters and I project Barham to be better. That’s it. You’ve gone from “Barham hasn’t played NFL snaps,” to “he didn’t do that in college,” and now all the way to “you’re not a scout.”

You’re not even arguing against my opinion anymore. You’re desperately searching for a reason I’m not allowed to have one.

If “you’re not a scout” is the best argument you have left, I think we can safely call this one.

 

[TexasHillbilly]

19 games played since 2023 is very good? It wasn’t like he was lighting it up when healthy either. Wow, he had a pick six vs Drew Lock on Thanksgiving. Talk about anointing players; a majority of the fanbase has propped up Overshown, but aren’t willing to do the same for Barham.

Not sure who the "majority" is, but I have read nothing but good about Barham on the boards. Everyone is saying what a beast he is. Guy plays with a passion you don't see from many players.

 

[LouBrown]

This started with me saying I’m not high on Winters and I project Barham to be better. That’s it. You’ve gone from “Barham hasn’t played NFL snaps,” to “he didn’t do that in college,” and now all the way to “you’re not a scout.”

No, that is not at all what it started with lol. You talking about projections is effectively what a scout does.

Yeah, I'm just saying, if Barham doesn't gain meaningful snaps within the first month of the season, now you're compromising winning football games. Get the best players on the field!

It's laughable they they just handed the starting LB jobs to Overshown and Winters.

You were saying that Barham is so much better than Winters or Overshown that you'd be compromising games by playing them, and that they were just given the job. That is a far cry from "not high on Winters."

Good hustle though.

 

[TheSport78]

No, that is not at all what it started with lol. You talking about projections is effectively what a scout does.


You were saying that Barham is so much better than Winters or Overshown that you'd be compromising games by playing them, and that they were just given the job. That is a far cry from "not high on Winters."

Good hustle though.

Lol dude, what are we even doing here? I never claimed to be a scout. I gave an opinion on a football message board.

You’ve gone from “Barham hasn’t played NFL snaps” to “projections are meaningless” to “you’re not a scout.” Anything except actually discussing the players.

And “you’re arguing with the scouts” is hilarious. Scouts disagree and get players wrong every single year. They’re not infallible because they have a job title.

I think Barham is better. You disagree. Cool. You’ve spent about 12 paragraphs trying to prove I’m not allowed to project that instead of just making your own case.

But hey, good hustle.

 

[LouBrown]

You’ve gone from “Barham hasn’t played NFL snaps” to “projections are meaningless” to “you’re not a scout.” Anything except actually discussing the players.

There is nothing to discuss on Barham because he hasn't played MLB in two years.

The point is that your projections are baseless.

There's nothing to discuss about the players, because you haven't said anything other than he's a "dawg."

I already asked about coverage things, and you ignored them.

 

[TheSport78]

There is nothing to discuss on Barham because he hasn't played MLB in two years.

The point is that your projections are baseless.

There's nothing to discuss about the players, because you haven't said anything other than he's a "dawg."

I already asked about coverage things, and you ignored them.

You keep saying I ignored your questions while somehow ignoring the same question I’ve asked you about Winters about five times now.

What do you actually like about Dee Winters?

You’ve written a dissertation on why I’m apparently not qualified to project Barham, but you still haven’t given me one actual football reason to be confident in Winters.

And “there’s nothing to discuss about Barham because he hasn’t played MLB in two years” is literally why it’s a projection. I’m projecting traits into a role. You can think that projection is wrong. Fine.

But you’ve spent this entire argument cross-examining my opinion while apparently believing your own position requires zero explanation.

So before chapter 14 of Why Kyle (me) Isn’t An NFL Scout drops, answer the question: what do you like about Winters?

 

[LouBrown]

You keep saying I ignored your questions while somehow ignoring the same question I’ve asked you about Winters about five times now.

What do you actually like about Dee Winters?

You’ve written a dissertation on why I’m apparently not qualified to project Barham, but you still haven’t given me one actual football reason to be confident in Winters.

And “there’s nothing to discuss about Barham because he hasn’t played MLB in two years” is literally why it’s a projection. I’m projecting traits into a role. You can think that projection is wrong. Fine.

But you’ve spent this entire argument cross-examining my opinion while apparently believing your own position requires zero explanation.

So before chapter 14 of Why Kyle (me) Isn’t An NFL Scout drops, answer the question: what do you like about Winters?

I don't know what Winters is in this defense. I said that. I don't have any opinion on him and its not the point.

Nobody knows what Barham is in NFL, let alone in this defense.

I don't think you know what a projection is. It has to be based on some sort of data. You're just vibing it. There's nothing to discuss about the players themselves.

If you think Barham can cover at the NFL level, cool. It's not a projection, it's a blind guess.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I think we're all excited to watch #55 bring some pain to the opposing teams this season. I'm not sure how he compares with Winters but at times, he sure looks great out there. Go Cowboys

For sure. When have we seen consistent power tackling?

I watched even the usually fairly rugged Hooker BACK UP five yards for a tackle. EVen then a weak push out of bounds. Maddening!

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I don't know what Winters is in this defense. I said that. I don't have any opinion on him and its not the point.

Nobody knows what Barham is in NFL, let alone in this defense.

I don't think you know what a projection is. It has to be based on some sort of data. You're just vibing it. There's nothing to discuss about the players themselves.

If you think Barham can cover at the NFL level, cool. It's not a projection, it's a blind guess.

Isn't a projection just a guess anyway? Various level of informed guessing.

Say a college player is "projected" to go in the first round. He may or may not. And it's not always consensus either.

I get your drift though..somebody somewhere has to have SOME evidence for it. But still a GUESS.

The kid does play hard...but let's hope our HC/DC fit the right players into the right situations.

 

[LouBrown]

Isn't a projection just a guess anyway? Various level of informed guessing.

Say a college player is "projected" to go in the first round. He may or may not. And it's not always consensus either.

I get your drift though..somebody somewhere has to have SOME evidence for it. But still a GUESS.

The kid does play hard...but let's hope our HC/DC fit the right players into the right situations.

Yes - projections aren't perfect. I know that lol.

But you can't project based on things that have never been shown to happen. You wouldn't project a RB to all of a sudden be a starting WR in the NFL, so I don't know why we'd project a third-round Edge to surpass proven NFL players on the depth chart at MLB, after getting hurt in training camp lol.

I like Barham and think he has pretty much an unlimited ceiling - but for that to come to fruition he has to show a lot of things that he just hasn't.

 

[TheSport78]

I don't know what Winters is in this defense. I said that. I don't have any opinion on him and its not the point.

Nobody knows what Barham is in NFL, let alone in this defense.

I don't think you know what a projection is. It has to be based on some sort of data. You're just vibing it. There's nothing to discuss about the players themselves.

If you think Barham can cover at the NFL level, cool. It's not a projection, it's a blind guess.

So let me get this straight. You have no opinion on Winters, you don’t know what Winters is in this defense, and you don’t know what Barham will be either.

Yet somehow you’ve spent two days confidently telling me my evaluation is wrong.

That’s incredible.

And yes, projections are based on data. Athletic traits, movement skills, college tape, physical profile and transferable skills are data. Projecting a player into a role he hasn’t played extensively is literally what the word projection means. Uncertainty doesn’t turn it into a “blind guess.”

But the best part is you finally answered my question: you have absolutely no evaluation of Winters.

So you’ve spent 15 posts arguing against my player evaluation while admittedly having no player evaluation of your own.

Good talk.

 

[LouBrown]

Yet somehow you’ve spent two days confidently telling me my evaluation is wrong.

Wrong. I said that your logic is dumb, because it isn't based on anything but vibes. You are yet to say one tangible thing lol

This is my first response:

I don't know why we are assuming a third-round pick who played as much edge as ILB last year gives you a significantly better chance to win than guys who have already done it at the NFL level.

The reality is that Barham has some nice splash plays but we have no real sense of how he is performing in coverage or understanding the defense and his assignments entirely.

You have not even tried to refute any of that lol

 

[Rayman70]

Downs will be starting alongside Barham. Winters is solid. Our dbs are the glaring weakness.