Marinelli to take over as DC

wileedog said:
I think that is a pretty wild stretch considering Garrett's 4-20 career record against teams over .500.

The Saints had already steamrolled us once during the season. i don't any evidence at all that even with a "middling" defense there was some sort of probability of us beating them.

And you can't really say "if we had a middling defense." We don't, because the dysfunctional owner pulled a knee jerk change in scheme even after spending many years and draft picks getting players who don't fit in it. The historically bad unit is a symptom of the dysfunction, not an an excuse for it.
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Outstanding.

If this was a boxing match, I'd be sending you to the opposite corner so I can start my 10 count.
 
wileedog said:
I think that is a pretty wild stretch considering Garrett's 4-20 career record against teams over .500.

The Saints had already steamrolled us once during the season. i don't any evidence at all that even with a "middling" defense there was some sort of probability of us beating them.

And you can't really say "if we had a middling defense." We don't, because the dysfunctional owner pulled a knee jerk change in scheme even after spending many years and draft picks getting players who don't fit in it. The historically bad unit is a symptom of the dysfunction, not an an excuse for it.
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Look at the quality of our pass defense relative to the rest of the league under Garrett. It's been the same problem, three years running.

And I don't think we beat the Saints, either. Especially not without our rush players and Sean Lee when we're setting in zone with no pressure on Brees. There's no hope in a situation like that.

And I can't fathom why my pointing out how lamentably bad the defense is always is taken as an excuse rather than a criticism. I go out of my way to say in each post that it's entirely on Garrett to have fixed the defense and, while he's addressed it, he's failed to fix it. The only point is that the pass defense is what gets us beat, so it's the pass defense we should be complaining about and the pass defense we should be doing everything possible to fix.
 
Risen Star said:
Outstanding.

If this was a boxing match, I'd be sending you to the opposite corner so I can start my 10 count.
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If it were a boxing match, you'd be off in a corner, telling us all how much you hate the promoter. Let don't let the blind referee boxing matches, as a general rule.
 
Why would it be entirely on Jason Garrett to fix the defense? Was he the driving force behind foolishly, make that idiotically, switching defensive schemes and bringing in a corpse to oversee it? Is he the guy responsible for this bad news bears-like roster of defensive players?

Jason Garrett has done this? Or is he just the highest replaceable part up the food chain the fans can go with this franchise?
 
wileedog said:
I think that is a pretty wild stretch considering Garrett's 4-20 career record against teams over .500.

The Saints had already steamrolled us once during the season. i don't any evidence at all that even with a "middling" defense there was some sort of probability of us beating them.

And you can't really say "if we had a middling defense." We don't, because the dysfunctional owner pulled a knee jerk change in scheme even after spending many years and draft picks getting players who don't fit in it. The historically bad unit is a symptom of the dysfunction, not an an excuse for it.
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It's not a wild stretch. Look at the games in that statistic. We lose them mostly because we can't stop good QBs when we have to. Not all of them, but most of them.

And I can't be clearer that I don't think there's any way we were going to beat the Saints in that situation. Even with pressure on Brees and playing press coverage, the Sproles matchup on Carter and Sims was a disaster for us. And Brees and Graham can beat our press. It would have taken multiple turnovers and/or a ST score to win that game, especially in NO. But I didn't say we'd beat the Saints in the first place.

Or are you talking about a home playoff scenario? In that case, if it was the Saints we were playing (because they're the ones who played the Eagles, now I got you). You'd be right. I was talking more generally about what I thought the relative skill level of the team would be if we played middling defense, because I think middling would have won us several more games and possibly given us better playoff seeding.
 
Risen Star said:
Why would it be entirely on Jason Garrett to fix the defense? Was he the driving force behind foolishly, make that idiotically, switching defensive schemes and bringing in a corpse to oversee it? Is he the guy responsible for this bad news bears-like roster of defensive players?

Jason Garrett has done this? Or is he just the highest replaceable part up the food chain the fans can go with this franchise?
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The latter. But he's the HC, and it's on him to fix both sides of the ball, not just the offense. Otherwise, it gets painted as me scapegoating the DCs in order to protect Jason, and that's not accurate. I'd agree that Jerry is the bigger problem, but that's going to remain the case in any scenario.
 
Idgit said:
I think under Wade, we had a disconnect between the traits needed to run the various systems and the traits our college scouts were looking for. For whatever reason. Jason, probably because he's a better communicator and much more analytical, seems to have closed that gap in recent drafts. We're doing a much better job of finding talent, though a lot of that comes from the proscouting side and from CFAs.

Jimmy and Jerry could not co-exist for long, and at this point I think it's highly unlikely Jerry would tolerate another Jimmy-personality. Bill and Jerry got along, but then Bill didn't really have more luck than Jason has, so far. He certainly built up the talent on the roster, though.
I think Jason does have the respect of his players. And I don't think anybody gets the authority piece from Jerry. That might be the reason why I think Jason is a better fit for the current organization than some of you guys, because I believe what you're hoping to find in his place will never happen here.
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I would agree that the drafting has improved under JG and appreciate your stance or perception of JGs coaching style being our best chance for success given the current regime. I don't agree on JGs ability as a coach however, even if he has the respect of the players and management. A slightly more creative offensive mind/game manager would've given this team 2 wins minimum last season and that is more of the gripe I have with him. Corso defined it so well in that he appears from the outside to be everything you could want; intelligent, young, coaching genes, etc. but he just doesn't translate all of those positive qualities to the field in wins. He is quick to articulate what needs improvement and the steps forward but continually lays an egg against quality opponents and win or go home games at the end of the last 3 seasons.
 
BigStar said:
I would agree that the drafting has improved under JG and appreciate your stance or perception of JGs coaching style being our best chance for success given the current regime. I don't agree on JGs ability as a coach however, even if he has the respect of the players and management. A slightly more creative offensive mind/game manager would've given this team 2 wins minimum last season and that is more of the gripe I have with him. Corso defined it so well in that he appears from the outside to be everything you could want; intelligent, young, coaching genes, etc. but he just doesn't translate all of those positive qualities to the field in wins. He is quick to articulate what needs improvement and the steps forward but continually lays an egg against quality opponents and win or go home games at the end of the last 3 seasons.
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It doesn't translate on the field because he's working for a lunatic who doesn't respect the head coach. Not only does he undermine his head coach, he also provides no support with a quality front office that can feed him quality players. John Harbaugh gets Ozzie Newsome and Eric DeCosta. Jason Garrett gets an oil man and his chubby Dubya-like son.

So the head coach gets bad players to coach in an environment where the buck doesn't stop with him. He's not even the voice of the team. Then people wonder why this head coach can't succeed here. He must be a bum. Get rid of him. Find another.

Wait. He's a bum too! Our luck!!
 
BigStar said:
I would agree that the drafting has improved under JG and appreciate your stance or perception of JGs coaching style being our best chance for success given the current regime. I don't agree on JGs ability as a coach however, even if he has the respect of the players and management. A slightly more creative offensive mind/game manager would've given this team 2 wins minimum last season and that is more of the gripe I have with him. Corso defined it so well in that he appears from the outside to be everything you could want; intelligent, young, coaching genes, etc. but he just doesn't translate all of those positive qualities to the field in wins. He is quick to articulate what needs improvement and the steps forward but continually lays an egg against quality opponents and win or go home games at the end of the last 3 seasons.
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I obviously don't see it exactly the same way, but I think this is a perfectly reasonable take. I worry that you're right, though I think that stuff is a lot less important if we're just playing better pass defense. I think Jason's getting bit by stuff he's not particularly good at, because the stuff he's good at hasn't borne enough fruit yet. And, yeah, I get it that he might actually just not be as good as I prefer to think he is at the long term stuff I'm saying is his strong suit.
 
Risen Star said:
It doesn't translate on the field because he's working for a lunatic who doesn't respect the head coach. Not only does he undermine his head coach, he also provides no support with a quality front office that can feed him quality players. John Harbaugh gets Ozzie Newsome and Eric DeCosta. Jason Garrett gets an oil man and his chubby Dubya-like son.

So the head coach gets bad players to coach in an environment where the buck doesn't stop with him. He's not even the voice of the team. Then people wonder why this head coach can't succeed here. He must be a bum. Get rid of him. Find another.

Wait. He's a bum too! Our luck!!
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You're good Risen :Dbut I still want a more innovative mind if we have an OC as HC...I hear your point though, would probably be round 2 of this with more slants and stacked receivers, etc.

Chubby dubya-like son deserves a second mention....that is gold (no sarcasm)
 
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Idgit said:
And I can't fathom why my pointing out how lamentably bad the defense is always is taken as an excuse rather than a criticism..
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Because your original argument was that the team is not "that" dysfunctional because we were 8-8. I disagree with you because the fact that we right now, in fact, have a terribly bad defense, and that that bad defense is the direct result of an awful, awful decision by the Owner/GM/Dark Lord, is a glaring example of why we are not that good of a team.

Its been said by myself and others and I believe its true. This is the Campo team if you put Tony Romo on it, only Campo's squads had a livable defense and an atrocious offense. This team has a liveable offense, an actual starting QB (and please no one start a Romo War here) and a defense that has no idea what it is doing.

The proof is in the 4-20 record I quoted. Romo is a good enough QB to drag a middling/bad team past other middling/bad teams. He is not good enough to carry it past playoff caliber teams.Take him off this team and replace him with a Quincy Carter and you have a perennial 5-11 squad. I don't know how much worse we have to be to qualify as one of the worst run organizations outside maybe Washington or Cleveland.
 
Idgit said:
Look at the quality of our pass defense relative to the rest of the league under Garrett. It's been the same problem, three years running.

And I don't think we beat the Saints, either. Especially not without our rush players and Sean Lee when we're setting in zone with no pressure on Brees. There's no hope in a situation like that.

And I can't fathom why my pointing out how lamentably bad the defense is always is taken as an excuse rather than a criticism. I go out of my way to say in each post that it's entirely on Garrett to have fixed the defense and, while he's addressed it, he's failed to fix it. The only point is that the pass defense is what gets us beat, so it's the pass defense we should be complaining about and the pass defense we should be doing everything possible to fix.
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Just drop a few million more on another man corner. Problem solved.
 
Kiffin trained Marinelli on how to coach. Why would he agree to be a subordinate?
 
CyberB0b said:
So has Marinelli ever been a DC?
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Bears D Coordinator 2010-2012 ranked (9th,17th,5th)...it seemed almost agreed upon that he would take over this season when he signed on as DL coach with Kiffens age, etc. I just hope he can incorporate more man Defense to accomodate the "talent" at CB.
 
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WoodysGirl said:
On a side note, this is such a typical Cowboys move. It's Superbowl week, and anytime there's been any Cowboys news in recent years, it's been leading up to the game.

Only thing different is that they did it late in the evening.
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Yep - god forbid we actually make news PLAYING IN THE GAME.

Unbelievable ...wait no it isn't, it's business as usual. "I've fallen and I can't get up."
 
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