The Great Running Back Debate

[Fredd]

I dunno, I think McRandle will be fine back there if they stay healthy...and if ryno starts to come on, who knows, the unit could be surprising

 

[Typhus]

I dunno, I think McRandle will be fine back there if they stay healthy...and if ryno starts to come on, who knows, the unit could be surprising

that sums it up my man, nicely done.

 

[iceberg]

To be honest, not a whole lot of effort at all. The OP was just all the ideas that have been rolling around my head seeking escape. Overall, I feel good about the offseason, but the effort or lack thereof at sowing up the running attack has left me somewhat concerned despite all of the other wins the Cowboys have had in this offseason.

well, i'm back to just because it hasn't been done yet doesn't mean it won't be.

when this offseason started, i, like many, used far too many commas in a sentence. when i got past that, i honestly felt we'd not go after any big names. hardy? not even worth looking up whatever it was he did cause he ain't coming here.

i was wrong.

collins? hey, i know someone who knows someone. he's wanting to go to miami and dallas isn't on the list.

i was wrong.

at this point i can either continue being wrong or stop insisting i know what they're going to do, or lament at what they have done. that cover everything?

but like i said to start before i went off rambling - just because it hasn't happened yet...

the front office is doing a phenominal job. i just don't see how a group that can put this offseason together will get it wrong on the "most obvious" piece. either they're the most stupid front office out there, or they're not done yet. well, to the extremes anyway. it could also well be that they're comfortable with what they've seen in what we have. very common and "in vogue" to bash them, but they've not really been given a chance yet. i would think chris johnson would be an upgrade but outside that, there really is only one RB that would be worth the time and effort to bring in at this point.

but it will NEVER EVER EVER happen.

(did that help, stash?)

 

[Zekeats]

I disagree. They telegraphed prior to the draft that they were going to draft defense. People just didn't believe them, but it's what they ended up doing.

Jerry always says the opposite of what he is looking to do. While we obviously were looking for defensive help, it was stated that every time they were prepared to take a RB or WR that a team in front of them selected them just before there pick and they stuck to their board. I have no doubt that if Gordon slipped to the early 20s this hole topic wouldn't be getting discussed. Heck, there is still a reason why Jerry is trying to send a clear message to the Vikings that he is willing to part with our first rounder next season......it is because Randle was not and is not seen as a starter.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

The other issue of RBBC is the fact that it shows your offense's hand. The Cowboys maintained the element of surprise by sticking with Murray in the backfield. In the upcoming season, the Cowboys playbook will be narrowed down quite a bit based on who is lining up behind Romo...and you can bet the opposing defenses will be well schooled on what to expect from the running back that is in the game.

I dispute that. Randle and McFadden can both run and catch. I'm not sure on Williams' hands bit I've never seen it called a weakness.

Early on in AD's career he was not an accomplished catcher and often came out on 3rd downs. He seemed to do ok still. No?

 

[BoysWin]

Like many of you, I am concerned about the Cowboy’s perceived Running Back by committee approach in 2015. After last season, I honestly thought anybody who actually sat down and watched every game understood that much of what was accomplished last year hinged on the running game – every aspect of the Cowboys football team was made better by how well the running game worked.

Some believe Murray benefitted more from the OL. Despite setting the new team record for rushing yards in a season, I do not recall a single game that I walked away from believing that Murray squeezed every last yard he could out of every run. Given that line of thinking, it wasn not too far-fetched to believe that were the Cowboys able to find a guy with a little better vision and better overall speed, behind that offensive line the Cowboys would be unstoppable.

Still others believe that it was the OL that benefitted from the simultaneous threat of the pass vs. the run. It was a true pick your poison situation for the opposing defense last year, meaning much of their game-planning was dependent on reading and reacting post-snap; ill-conceived pre-snap reads against the Cowboys is what led to a good portion of their pay-dirt last season. Therefore, because defenses were continuously off-balance, the offensive line enjoyed a split-second of indecision and this clearly made them look like world-beaters in many situations.

Don’t get me wrong; I’m not discounting the efforts of any one entity - be it the OL or Demarco Murray. I’m merely pointing out that both benefitted from each other – both made each other look better than what they deserved to look like…if that makes sense.

So with all of that having been said, the majority of the so-called experts (including my admittedly not-so-expert-opinion) fully expected the Cowboys to find a guy who could at the very least replace a little of Demarco’s production…and most also agreed that despite having signed McFadden, the search would continue in the draft.

Flash forward to the draft. With the first pick at 27 the Cowboys drafted Byron Jones. Some said this was a reach, some said this was a steal given where in the first round he was taken. Regardless of what you believe, I think most will agree that any RB left at that point, with Gordon and Gurley already gone, would have definitely been a reach.

So at this point, while I was disappointed the “great running back situation” had not been addressed in day 1, I at least understood the move. The Cowboys did address a glaring need and many would agree he was the Best Player Available, so I was still content.

Day 2 of the draft saw a player considered the best pass rusher available in the draft fall to the Cowboys at the 60th pick overall. At one time considered a top 15 talent, knuckleheadedness led to his considerable drop. Despite that, most agree the 60th overall pick was worth the gamble for a team desperate for a pass-rush last season. I’m reluctant to argue against that. Yes, that still meant the running back situation had not been addressed, but once again this was considered a need, especially with the uncertainty of Hardy's suspension situation, so while still uncomfortable with the Cowboys current stable of backs , I understood the move.

Day 3 is where the wheels completely fell off. Every RB worthy of the Cowboys consideration was taken before the Cowboys had an opportunity at 91. Don’t get me wrong, I get that Langford and Ajayi were still available, but to that I would argue that neither of those players or other miscellaneous drafted late RB would be an actual improvement over what the Cowboys already have. Langford is Dunbar/McFadden 2.0. Ajayi remind’s me a lot of JoRan.

Many are still clamoring for a move involving AP which I am resolutely against. He is 30, a year removed from football, would demand a contract of, at least, 3 years 8 mil at minimum, would demand extremely valuable draft picks/players being sent to the Vikings, and would be running on two surgically repaired knees. All the signs and symptoms of disaster waiting to happen are there. Why even Dez is blind to this is beyond me.

Don’t get me wrong, AP may have a good year or two in him…if any Running Back does at 30, he would. But still, the risk versus reward doesn’t add up to good business sense, in my opinion.

In the wake of all this, the Cowboys were able to hush up much of the white-noise in regards to Running Back with the stunning and sudden acquisition of La’el Collins. Clearly, his addition help’s the assertion that any running back should be able to find success behind the offensive line…but still. For me, I still have reservations, misgivings and am back to that old territory that all Cowboys fans should be familiar with post-draft – cautiously optimistic.

Granted, I would give this offseason as a whole an A -. They seemingly improved at various levels on Defense, namely the defensive line. They were able to miraculously add what many would consider three 1st round caliber talents in the draft. With the return of Sean Lee, they are adding what many would consider a first round pick, should you be kind enough to forget about the injury issues. They exercised a great deal of patience throughout Free Agency and ignored the itch to make sweeping massive changes/additions to the team that will cost the Cowboys in the long-run for the exception of the Romo restructure.

All in all, this Cowboys team look’s the best it has since 1995. The big question is will the Cowboys regret not making more of a concerted effort to replace Demarco Murray?

DALLAS DID - DARREN McFADDEN without injury will rush for 3,500 yards during the next 2 years behind this OL. Then add another 40-50 catches and 500 yards - I can see McFadden contributing 2,000 yards a season i DALLAS.

 

[Bullet22]

The big question is will the Cowboys regret not making more of a concerted effort to replace Demarco Murray?

The question for me is did JJones learn his lesson from the forced releases from the team by Rat and what's his name?
Will the Viking live with the distraction Peterson creates with all his financial burden or finally just release him like JJones did.
We can wait.

They did....

 

[xwalker]

They would not have signed McFading if they were so confident about Randle.

Why? He was cheap. Randle could get injured.

 

[xwalker]

That's something a coward says when he's losing the argument, especially since nobody here has proof of anything or else it wouldn't be under discussion. Repeating the same things is also a way to get a point through to the mentally challenged. Winning!

FuzzyLumpkins = Winning.

 

[jday]

I dispute that. Randle and McFadden can both run and catch. I'm not sure on Williams' hands bit I've never seen it called a weakness.

Early on in AD's career he was not an accomplished catcher and often came out on 3rd downs. He seemed to do ok still. No?

I am aware of their ability to run and catch. But I question their ability to run between the tackles in particular in short yardage situations. The Cowboys will likely need to bring in a specialist, which makes it a bit obvious what they are going to do. I'm not saying, given that offensive line they won't be able to impose their will at times...but for me, I'd prefer it if they did not have to make a roster adjustment and show their hand for various scenarios.

 

[jday]

well, i'm back to just because it hasn't been done yet doesn't mean it won't be.

when this offseason started, i, like many, used far too many commas in a sentence. when i got past that, i honestly felt we'd not go after any big names. hardy? not even worth looking up whatever it was he did cause he ain't coming here.

i was wrong.

collins? hey, i know someone who knows someone. he's wanting to go to miami and dallas isn't on the list.

i was wrong.

at this point i can either continue being wrong or stop insisting i know what they're going to do, or lament at what they have done. that cover everything?

but like i said to start before i went off rambling - just because it hasn't happened yet...

the front office is doing a phenominal job. i just don't see how a group that can put this offseason together will get it wrong on the "most obvious" piece. either they're the most stupid front office out there, or they're not done yet. well, to the extremes anyway. it could also well be that they're comfortable with what they've seen in what we have. very common and "in vogue" to bash them, but they've not really been given a chance yet. i would think chris johnson would be an upgrade but outside that, there really is only one RB that would be worth the time and effort to bring in at this point.

but it will NEVER EVER EVER happen.

(did that help, stash?)

I am having hard time believing that as well. But I think the gameplan at present is to stand pat with what they have...at least until preseason. If a clear winner of the rb position battle does not emerge, we may see the Cowboys try to make a trade. But I'm guessing that move will be modest and involve players on the bubble. He who shall not be named, in my opinion, just doesn't make sense long-term for the Cowboys and long-term thinking is the new M.O in Valley Ranch.

 

[iceberg]

I am having hard time believing that as well. But I think the gameplan at present is to stand pat with what they have...at least until preseason. If a clear winner of the rb position battle does not emerge, we may see the Cowboys try to make a trade. But I'm guessing that move will be modest and involve players on the bubble. He who shall not be named, in my opinion, just doesn't make sense long-term for the Cowboys and long-term thinking is the new M.O in Valley Ranch.

yea, i can go with that.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I am aware of their ability to run and catch. But I question their ability to run between the tackles in particular in short yardage situations. The Cowboys will likely need to bring in a specialist, which makes it a bit obvious what they are going to do. I'm not saying, given that offensive line they won't be able to impose their will at times...but for me, I'd prefer it if they did not have to make a roster adjustment and show their hand for various scenarios.

I really don't question short yardage usage especially with Mcfadden and Murray being the same size.....oh and Mcfadden is the superior athlete.

 

[IrishAnto]

Like many of you, I am concerned about the Cowboy’s perceived Running Back by committee approach in 2015. After last season, I honestly thought anybody who actually sat down and watched every game understood that much of what was accomplished last year hinged on the running game – every aspect of the Cowboys football team was made better by how well the running game worked.

Some believe Murray benefitted more from the OL. Despite setting the new team record for rushing yards in a season, I do not recall a single game that I walked away from believing that Murray squeezed every last yard he could out of every run. Given that line of thinking, it wasn not too far-fetched to believe that were the Cowboys able to find a guy with a little better vision and better overall speed, behind that offensive line the Cowboys would be unstoppable.

Still others believe that it was the OL that benefitted from the simultaneous threat of the pass vs. the run. It was a true pick your poison situation for the opposing defense last year, meaning much of their game-planning was dependent on reading and reacting post-snap; ill-conceived pre-snap reads against the Cowboys is what led to a good portion of their pay-dirt last season. Therefore, because defenses were continuously off-balance, the offensive line enjoyed a split-second of indecision and this clearly made them look like world-beaters in many situations.

Don’t get me wrong; I’m not discounting the efforts of any one entity - be it the OL or Demarco Murray. I’m merely pointing out that both benefitted from each other – both made each other look better than what they deserved to look like…if that makes sense.

So with all of that having been said, the majority of the so-called experts (including my admittedly not-so-expert-opinion) fully expected the Cowboys to find a guy who could at the very least replace a little of Demarco’s production…and most also agreed that despite having signed McFadden, the search would continue in the draft.

Flash forward to the draft. With the first pick at 27 the Cowboys drafted Byron Jones. Some said this was a reach, some said this was a steal given where in the first round he was taken. Regardless of what you believe, I think most will agree that any RB left at that point, with Gordon and Gurley already gone, would have definitely been a reach.

So at this point, while I was disappointed the “great running back situation” had not been addressed in day 1, I at least understood the move. The Cowboys did address a glaring need and many would agree he was the Best Player Available, so I was still content.

Day 2 of the draft saw a player considered the best pass rusher available in the draft fall to the Cowboys at the 60th pick overall. At one time considered a top 15 talent, knuckleheadedness led to his considerable drop. Despite that, most agree the 60th overall pick was worth the gamble for a team desperate for a pass-rush last season. I’m reluctant to argue against that. Yes, that still meant the running back situation had not been addressed, but once again this was considered a need, especially with the uncertainty of Hardy's suspension situation, so while still uncomfortable with the Cowboys current stable of backs , I understood the move.

Day 3 is where the wheels completely fell off. Every RB worthy of the Cowboys consideration was taken before the Cowboys had an opportunity at 91. Don’t get me wrong, I get that Langford and Ajayi were still available, but to that I would argue that neither of those players or other miscellaneous drafted late RB would be an actual improvement over what the Cowboys already have. Langford is Dunbar/McFadden 2.0. Ajayi remind’s me a lot of JoRan.

Many are still clamoring for a move involving AP which I am resolutely against. He is 30, a year removed from football, would demand a contract of, at least, 3 years 8 mil at minimum, would demand extremely valuable draft picks/players being sent to the Vikings, and would be running on two surgically repaired knees. All the signs and symptoms of disaster waiting to happen are there. Why even Dez is blind to this is beyond me.

Don’t get me wrong, AP may have a good year or two in him…if any Running Back does at 30, he would. But still, the risk versus reward doesn’t add up to good business sense, in my opinion.

In the wake of all this, the Cowboys were able to hush up much of the white-noise in regards to Running Back with the stunning and sudden acquisition of La’el Collins. Clearly, his addition help’s the assertion that any running back should be able to find success behind the offensive line…but still. For me, I still have reservations, misgivings and am back to that old territory that all Cowboys fans should be familiar with post-draft – cautiously optimistic.

Granted, I would give this offseason as a whole an A -. They seemingly improved at various levels on Defense, namely the defensive line. They were able to miraculously add what many would consider three 1st round caliber talents in the draft. With the return of Sean Lee, they are adding what many would consider a first round pick, should you be kind enough to forget about the injury issues. They exercised a great deal of patience throughout Free Agency and ignored the itch to make sweeping massive changes/additions to the team that will cost the Cowboys in the long-run for the exception of the Romo restructure.

All in all, this Cowboys team look’s the best it has since 1995. The big question is will the Cowboys regret not making more of a concerted effort to replace Demarco Murray?

I get the feeling they’re not finished at the position yet.

At some point between now and the Giant’s game I think we’ll have added another RB to the stable.

It could be AP or we may swap the likes of Leary to a team that’s suddenly had a rash of injuries to its OL and has a surfeit of quality at the RB position.

Either way I don’t believe you have to have a bell cow to be a successful running team.

To me being able to run the ball when necessary (running out the clock, 3rd and short, 2nd and goal etc.) is the prerequisite to a good running game.

As long as the opposition knows you can do this, then they have to account for it and it thus keeps them honest on defense.

Time will tell.

 

[jday]

I really don't question short yardage usage especially with Mcfadden and Murray being the same size.....oh and Mcfadden is the superior athlete.

McFadden may have been the superior athlete when he was drafted, but from what I've read/heard, he is a shell of his former self. I truly do hope I'm wrong on this, but I just can't see a guy who was leapfrogged on the depth chart twice last season as being a guy who can go get 1 to 2 yards you absolutely have to have.

 

[Idgit]

Jerry always says the opposite of what he is looking to do. While we obviously were looking for defensive help, it was stated that every time they were prepared to take a RB or WR that a team in front of them selected them just before there pick and they stuck to their board. I have no doubt that if Gordon slipped to the early 20s this hole topic wouldn't be getting discussed. Heck, there is still a reason why Jerry is trying to send a clear message to the Vikings that he is willing to part with our first rounder next season......it is because Randle was not and is not seen as a starter.

We're actually transparent when it comes to the draft right now. We draft the players we've brought in, primarily, and we've been doing exactly what we say we're going to be doing each year. The only reason people are surprised is because they had different expectations in the first place.

Of course, if a top player at any position--and especially at a position of relative need--falls into our laps, we're going to consider it. But CB was a higher priority going in than RB was. They said so ahead of time, and that's just the way it played out in the draft. If you're only argument is that things would have gone differently if the board had broken differently, that's purely a hypothetical that doesn't do anything to make your point. The board broke the way it did. We chose to make the moves we made rather than positioning to bring in another back. Very obviously, we executed the plan that we had coming in, and that plan didn't involve bringing in a significant challenger to any of the backs we already had on the roster.

It's possible we'll make a move to add another back at some point still in this offseason, but there's no convincing way to make the case that we've gone all the way through UDFA and the draft with the backs we've got and that none of them were or are considered options for starting the season. Clearly, they are. If anything changes, it's be unexpected, no matter what you might be reading into whatever Jerry said the last time a mic was put under his nose.

 

[jday]

I get the feeling they’re not finished at the position yet.

At some point between now and the Giant’s game I think we’ll have added another RB to the stable.

It could be AP or we may swap the likes of Leary to a team that’s suddenly had a rash of injuries to its OL and has a surfeit of quality at the RB position.

Either way I don’t believe you have to have a bell cow to be a successful running team.

To me being able to run the ball when necessary (running out the clock, 3rd and short, 2nd and goal etc.) is the prerequisite to a good running game.

As long as the opposition knows you can do this, then they have to account for it and it thus keeps them honest on defense.

Time will tell.

For the moment, I think, they have confidence in what they have largely because of the offensive line they have put together. I really do hope they are smarter than what this situation looks like right now, because if they are not the Cowboys brass will lose alot of ground they recovered last season in terms of fan confidence.

 

[Idgit]

For the moment, I think, they have confidence in what they have largely because of the offensive line they have put together. I really do hope they are smarter than what this situation looks like right now, because if they are not the Cowboys brass will lose alot of ground they recovered last season in terms of fan confidence.

Or, they're right that the OL really is the difference maker, and it turns out they made the shrewd decision in not extending Murray after running him into the ground last season.
We lost a great player and didn't really replace him (I don't count McFadden as a replacement for Murray. I think he's a role player). It's the story of the offseason to see how his backups do. The insurance we have is that we addressed the defense significantly, instead. Hopefully that really pays off because we had a lot of ground to make up.

 

[Zekeats]

Why? He was cheap. Randle could get injured.

Nuff said about how you choose to go

 

[Zekeats]

We're actually transparent when it comes to the draft right now. We draft the players we've brought in, primarily, and we've been doing exactly what we say we're going to be doing each year. The only reason people are surprised is because they had different expectations in the first place.

Of course, if a top player at any position--and especially at a position of relative need--falls into our laps, we're going to consider it. But CB was a higher priority going in than RB was. They said so ahead of time, and that's just the way it played out in the draft. If you're only argument is that things would have gone differently if the board had broken differently, that's purely a hypothetical that doesn't do anything to make your point. The board broke the way it did. We chose to make the moves we made rather than positioning to bring in another back. Very obviously, we executed the plan that we had coming in, and that plan didn't involve bringing in a significant challenger to any of the backs we already had on the roster.

It's possible we'll make a move to add another back at some point still in this offseason, but there's no convincing way to make the case that we've gone all the way through UDFA and the draft with the backs we've got and that none of them were or are considered options for starting the season. Clearly, they are. If anything changes, it's be unexpected, no matter what you might be reading into whatever Jerry said the last time a mic was put under his nose.

believe what you want to