News: Bob Sturm: Why I was so wrong about Cowboys coach Jason Garrett

[CowboyRoy]

Alright, does Skip Kelly ride the arm of Nick Foles?

Nick Foles was traded.

 

[CowboyRoy]

These things you keep saying are 'facts' aren't actually facts. Or else, like in the case of your generic reference to coaching polls and 'was considered a lame duck' or 'was considered on a hot seat' they're statements that I'm sure were true someplace on the internet, but they're still not consistent with the performance of his offenses on a points/series basis during his time here, or with the record of his teams during his time here, or with the big fat extension he was given for being good at his job during his time here. I'm not washing away anything that happened before 2014, because I've been saying for years that it's been obvious that the work Jason Garrett did during that period was good work in the first place.

Now, I won't keep addressing every flurry of posts you want to take the time to make. I'm just wading into the thread every now and then to point out that you're trying to win an argument with the volume of your opinions, when your opinions aren't actually supportable. You're just wrong on the topic no matter how much you don't want to be.

The result of a poll is a fact. Jerry's own words are a FACT. Garrett admitting he screwed up and needs to get better is also a fact. Fans and media bashing Garrett for many years is a FACT. I'm not going to argue that.

I am not trying to win any argument, just simply stating the facts that support my argument. You calling them NOT FACTS doenst make them so. To take a line our of your arsenal.

And again.............your trying to take one good year for the team to justify the mistakes over the prior 7. Quite a leap that holds little water in my book. Its another attempt by you to use one year to justify your mystifying support of someone that was completely overwhelmed with the job he was given. You are also attributing the success of the team to ONLY Garrett. Which again is ridiculous.

Any offense with Romo, Witten, and some good receivers is going to score points. Any fool can call some plays to make that happen. But it wasnt until Linehan that the offense became efficient, balanced, run game dominant, red zone efficient, better execution, low penalties. Those are also FACTS.

 

[CowboyRoy]

It's still early but this has "dumb post of the day" potential!

You are right, it was too early in the day. You just took the cake for "dumb post of the day" honors.

 

[khiladi]

Funny, the level of accomplishment, when declaring he was the dominant force in a Garrett lead team, is relevant. But if one doesn't also consider whether or not he can be an offensive coordinator and merit a higher level, head coach, could very easily be relevant in declaring Callahan was the ground zero of all incoming on offense.

But hey, stir blame around and never see the discussive elements, and declare an argument instead. You go Champ.

The offense, that included Scott Linehan under Jason Garrett, with Frank Pollack offensive line coach...I dare say, won't be beholding to Callahn. As Rod Marinelli is not beholding to the previously departed defensive coordinator, who left just before him as well.

As to production, never mind Phillips was great as a defensive coordinator and his defense left behind was the NFL's close to very worst when brought along from where it was with Phillips as the head coach. No, there are disconnects when just giving a person in a position full recognition when a team's full efforts are actually involved in success.

No, I don't think that talent added in the offensive line degenerates because Callahan is gone. No matter how many times one declares that the sky is falling instead.

Assuming what you said about Wade was correct, are implying that Callahan left a trash OL? You do realize your analogies are totally off the wall and 'bolding' and increasing the 'font size' doesn't change how ridiculous your arguments are, besides the fact your statements have nothing to do with the original argument anyways...

 

[AsthmaField]

LOL... this thread hasn't been locked yet?

This thing has pre-training camp discussion written all over it.

 

[Idgit]

The result of a poll is a fact. Jerry's own words are a FACT. Garrett admitting he screwed up and needs to get better is also a fact. Fans and media bashing Garrett for many years is a FACT. I'm not going to argue that.

I am not trying to win any argument, just simply stating the facts that support my argument. You calling them NOT FACTS doenst make them so. To take a line our of your arsenal.

And again.............your trying to take one good year for the team to justify the mistakes over the prior 7. Quite a leap that holds little water in my book. Its another attempt by you to use one year to justify your mystifying support of someone that was completely overwhelmed with the job he was given. You are also attributing the success of the team to ONLY Garrett. Which again is ridiculous.

Any offense with Romo, Witten, and some good receivers is going to score points. Any fool can call some plays to make that happen. But it wasnt until Linehan that the offense became efficient, balanced, run game dominant, red zone efficient, better execution, low penalties. Those are also FACTS.

Poll results are a fact, but there are such things as irrelevant facts. Jerry's words are a matter of record--a record we've already discussed you've taken out of context. What Jerry feels about JG was made clear when he wrote the enormous check. Garrett saying he needs to do better is a fact, and it's part of the reason why he's a good coach. Because he understands that improvement and competition makes everyone better. These aren't liabilities. Again. This is just you pretending they are because it's something you want to believe.

Fans and media bashed Garrett because fans and media are fickle. Fortunately, it's not their opinions that matter because, you could probably guess it: they really don't have the actual facts.

And, again. I am *not* justifying 7 bad years because of one good one. I'm telling you over and over that JG did a good job all along, which is why he built the team to have the one good year. And counting.

I never attributed the team success *only* to Garrett. I agree, that would be ridiculous. Again, this is you with an interpretation of a fact that isn't actually a fact. Just like you saying that it wasn't until Linehan got here that the offense became efficient. That's just something you want to believe, but it's not actually the case. I'm sorry for your sake, it's not. I know you really, really want it to be. If it makes you feel any better, Jason hired Linehan in the first place, so he'd get credit for your pretend facts if they actually happened to be fact facts, anyway.

So, have at it, I guess. I'm going to step away from the thread for a while again, but might come back if the weight of the baseless opinions gets to be too much to pretend to ignore again. Good luck continuing to make your case agains the HC. Perhaps this season will play out in a way that actually supports what you want to believe. I guess we'll see, soon enough.

 

[khiladi]

I was simply commenting on what Jones said. Which he specifically said he wanted Manziel and they had to talk him out of it. Now if your going to say that Jerry was lying about what he said, then that is up to you.

Jerry never said they had to talk him out of it and Jerry said he picked Martin.. The actual comment about Jerry, as he explicitly said in the context of Zach being picked and three players better than anyone left on the board.

That additional part about being talked out of it and people holding his hand, was attributed by Dent and he even says that is what he thinks could have happened, not that it actually happened.

That's why people were still talking in August about whether or not he actually wanted him. The whole story blew up out of a tongue-and-cheek comment.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/2014/08/28/jerry-responds-article-peterson-jimmy-manziel

That story also forgets the fact that Jerry said they weren't going Manziel even prior to the draft... Everybody during draft time was saying non-stop that Jerry would draft Manziel and Jerry kept denying it. He consistently said they weren't looking at a QB in the first round. As I said, Jerry has fawned over Romo, gave him a huge contract, despite the alleged back injuries and made Linehan the de facto OC and play-caller for Romo.

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20140506-jerry-jones-johnny-manziel-perfect-match-but-it-won-t-be-made-at-thursday-s-nfl-draft.ece

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sports/...-it-won-t-be-made-at-thursday-s-nfl-draft.ece

 

[Idgit]

LOL... this thread hasn't been locked yet?

This thing has pre-training camp discussion written all over it.

I'm probably the last guy to lock a thread if nobody's tossing around insults or badwill. Roy and I are just playing around, for the most part, anyway. Once the games start, we'll be on the same side again, I'm sure.

 

[AsthmaField]

I'm probably the last guy to lock a thread if nobody's tossing around insults or badwill. Roy and I are just playing around, for the most part, anyway. Once the games start, we'll be on the same side again, I'm sure.

Yeah, I'm sure.

I'm really looking forward to him pulling in the same direction as the rest of us.

A lot of the Commanders fans I know are saying similar things as Roy about Garrett, and I'd hate for them to get the wrong impression about Roy when they come visit this fine establishment.

 

[Primetime42]

Nah, you just think Garrett is a great coach, and I dont. I like what he is doing now, but he plum failed prior to this. Those are the facts. Whether you want to look at his record, the play of the team, the reaction of fans, media, his boss, they all point to disappointment. Nothing you say or do can change that.

After 8 years of grueling learning curves, he has finally gotten to the point where he has some abilities that can be harvested. And Jones has him limited in that regard. Which is away from game day management.

Jason Garrett had a record of 29-27 going into last year. That's not "failing", certainly not with what he was working with.

He is now 41-31 through 4 1/2 years.

For comparison's sake, Bill Belichick was 36-44 his first 5 years. Pete Carroll was 40-40.

Greatness at the head coaching position, like many other things, doesn't just happen.

 

[CCBoy]

Assuming what you said about Wade was correct, are implying that Callahan left a trash OL? You do realize your analogies are totally off the wall and 'bolding' and increasing the 'font size' doesn't change how ridiculous your arguments are, besides the fact your statements have nothing to do with the original argument anyways...

If you are going to argue with yourself, don't involve me. That, or acquire reading comprehension and application.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Poll results are a fact, but there are such things as irrelevant facts. Jerry's words are a matter of record--a record we've already discussed you've taken out of context. What Jerry feels about JG was made clear when he wrote the enormous check. Garrett saying he needs to do better is a fact, and it's part of the reason why he's a good coach. Because he understands that improvement and competition makes everyone better. These aren't liabilities. Again. This is just you pretending they are because it's something you want to believe.

Fans and media bashed Garrett because fans and media are fickle. Fortunately, it's not their opinions that matter because, you could probably guess it: they really don't have the actual facts.

And, again. I am *not* justifying 7 bad years because of one good one. I'm telling you over and over that JG did a good job all along, which is why he built the team to have the one good year. And counting.

I never attributed the team success *only* to Garrett. I agree, that would be ridiculous. Again, this is you with an interpretation of a fact that isn't actually a fact. Just like you saying that it wasn't until Linehan got here that the offense became efficient. That's just something you want to believe, but it's not actually the case. I'm sorry for your sake, it's not. I know you really, really want it to be. If it makes you feel any better, Jason hired Linehan in the first place, so he'd get credit for your pretend facts if they actually happened to be fact facts, anyway.

So, have at it, I guess. I'm going to step away from the thread for a while again, but might come back if the weight of the baseless opinions gets to be too much to pretend to ignore again. Good luck continuing to make your case agains the HC. Perhaps this season will play out in a way that actually supports what you want to believe. I guess we'll see, soon enough.

I'm sorry, do you have some kind of inside connection with the team or Jerry? You are a fan just like me, so you are privy to the same facts or statements that I am. Which you then draw interpretation. Now there is no doubt that you are biased towards Garrett and I am biased against. However, when most of the fan base, the owner, the results and the person himself show errors and admissions, then that pretty much certifies it. Just like most of the fans think Garrett did a great job last year. He did. He was able to just focus on what he does well. But I am under no illusions that this was all part of a process. IF Garrett was running the offense last year and Linehan was still in Detriot, this team would NOT have gone 12-4. Now that is my opinion, but it is based on 8 year of watching him coach and FACTUAL results.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Jerry never said they had to talk him out of it and Jerry said he picked Martin.. The actual comment about Jerry, as he explicitly said in the context of Zach being picked and three players better than anyone left on the board.

That additional part about being talked out of it and people holding his hand, was attributed by Dent and he even says that is what he thinks could have happened, not that it actually happened.

That's why people were still talking in August about whether or not he actually wanted him. The whole story blew up out of a tongue-and-cheek comment.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/2014/08/28/jerry-responds-article-peterson-jimmy-manziel

That story also forgets the fact that Jerry said they weren't going Manziel even prior to the draft... Everybody during draft time was saying non-stop that Jerry would draft Manziel and Jerry kept denying it. He consistently said they weren't looking at a QB in the first round. As I said, Jerry has fawned over Romo, gave him a huge contract, despite the alleged back injuries and made Linehan the de facto OC and play-caller for Romo.

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20140506-jerry-jones-johnny-manziel-perfect-match-but-it-won-t-be-made-at-thursday-s-nfl-draft.ece

Tongue and Cheek? What kind of nonsense is that? Jerry point blank said he wanted Manziel and they talked him out of it. End of story.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Jason Garrett had a record of 29-27 going into last year. That's not "failing", certainly not with what he was working with.

He is now 41-31 through 4 1/2 years.

For comparison's sake, Bill Belichick was 36-44 his first 5 years. Pete Carroll was 40-40.

Greatness at the head coaching position, like many other things, doesn't just happen.

That is your opinion.

Garrett failed because he was terrible at being and OC. We missed the playoffs all 3 years in part because he got out coached every week. And it was definitely every week. Game plans were poor, the team was ill prepared and penalty prone. The in game or half time adjustments were bad or non existent. With a franchise QB like Romo and the fire power we had on offense, this team should have made the playoffs all 3 years. And no doubt he killed Wades coaching tenure to some degree with the way he called the game. Lord knows that Wade would have NEVER picked Garrett as his OC and would have certainly fired his overwhelmed butt a year or two into this had he had the power to do so.

8-8 is failure in my book. You must have really low standards. This was NOT a low talent roster on a rebuild. This team definitely had a enough talent to make the playoffs and had a franchise QB in the prime of his career the entire time. Witten, Dez, Owens, pro bowl lineman, Ware, ect....ect.... And the NFC East was generally week the last 4 years. Not the mention the team caved in December EVERY year under Garrett.

To me that is failure. But hey, to you, he was doing great right? Higher standards.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Yeah, I'm sure.

I'm really looking forward to him pulling in the same direction as the rest of us.

A lot of the Commanders fans I know are saying similar things as Roy about Garrett, and I'd hate for them to get the wrong impression about Roy when they come visit this fine establishment.

The best part about Sundays now is that I dont have to watch Garrett butcher the play calling and screw it all up. I will NEVER again have to watch the Cowboys be up 23 points in the 2nd half while Romo goes back in shotgun every play. Linehan not only has a brain for offense, but he is VERY good at it. If you cant see the difference between Linehan calling a game and Garrett, then there is no helping you my friend. Night and day.

Instead of drafting scat backs like Felix Jones, we are drafting Olineman and Dlineman. Instead of guys like beasleay rotting on the bench they are great weapons for this offense. Instead of watching a beast like Murray carry the ball 12 times a game, he gets the ball 30 times a game. Instead of Romo throwing the ball 50 times a game and two picks, he throws it 30 times a game with a play action element and red zone efficiency. instead of a one dimensional desperate offense, we have a well balanced machine that can pick up the short yardage plays and run out the clock in the 2nd half.

But hey, Garrett picked Linehan right?

 

[CowboyRoy]

Jason Garrett had a record of 29-27 going into last year. That's not "failing", certainly not with what he was working with.

He is now 41-31 through 4 1/2 years.

For comparison's sake, Bill Belichick was 36-44 his first 5 years. Pete Carroll was 40-40.

Greatness at the head coaching position, like many other things, doesn't just happen.

There is no comparison at all. Two different teams and different situations. And if you look at JUST record when making a decision, then you have already missed the boat. Neither Belichick or Carrol made the coaching blunders that Garrett has made. Not even close.

For you to even imply that Garrett is in the same class as Bellicheck or Carroll is an embarrassment to those two fine coaches. And to use the word GREAT to describe Garrett is a complete joke.

 

[DallasEast]

There is no comparison at all. Two different teams and different situations. And if you look at JUST record when making a decision, then you have already missed the boat. Neither Belichick or Carrol made the coaching blunders that Garrett has made. Not even close.

For you to even imply that Garrett is in the same class as Bellicheck or Carroll is an embarrassment to those two fine coaches. And to use the word GREAT to describe Garrett is a complete joke.

Are you stating that any coaching record at or below .500 is equivalent to not failing?

 

[Primetime42]

There is no comparison at all. Two different teams and different situations. And if you look at JUST record when making a decision, then you have already missed the boat. Neither Belichick or Carrol made the coaching blunders that Garrett has made. Not even close.

For you to even imply that Garrett is in the same class as Bellicheck or Carroll is an embarrassment to those two fine coaches. And to use the word GREAT to describe Garrett is a complete joke.

You're the one who brought up record...

And the point I was making is that Belichick and Carroll were not Belichick and Carroll until, you know, they were.

 

[Primetime42]

The best part about Sundays now is that I dont have to watch Garrett butcher the play calling and screw it all up. I will NEVER again have to watch the Cowboys be up 23 points in the 2nd half while Romo goes back in shotgun every play. Linehan not only has a brain for offense, but he is VERY good at it. If you cant see the difference between Linehan calling a game and Garrett, then there is no helping you my friend. Night and day.

Instead of drafting scat backs like Felix Jones, we are drafting Olineman and Dlineman. Instead of guys like beasleay rotting on the bench they are great weapons for this offense. Instead of watching a beast like Murray carry the ball 12 times a game, he gets the ball 30 times a game. Instead of Romo throwing the ball 50 times a game and two picks, he throws it 30 times a game with a play action element and red zone efficiency. instead of a one dimensional desperate offense, we have a well balanced machine that can pick up the short yardage plays and run out the clock in the 2nd half.

But hey, Garrett picked Linehan right?

You ever take a look at Linehan's history as a head coach and OC before coming here? It was very pass heavy.

Since you're so fond of pulling up quotes, here's one from Linehan last year:

“He said ‘the No. 1 thing we’re going to do is we’re going to get this run game like the old days,’” Linehan said of Garrett. “He was thinking of the days when he was wearing a uniform here. That was loud and clear, and we were all-in, I was all-in from the get-go.”

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/2...game-was-garrett’s-top-priority-when-i-signed


This thread needs to die.

 

[AsthmaField]

The best part about Sundays now is that I dont have to watch Garrett butcher the play calling and screw it all up. I will NEVER again have to watch the Cowboys be up 23 points in the 2nd half while Romo goes back in shotgun every play. Linehan not only has a brain for offense, but he is VERY good at it. If you cant see the difference between Linehan calling a game and Garrett, then there is no helping you my friend. Night and day.

Instead of drafting scat backs like Felix Jones, we are drafting Olineman and Dlineman. Instead of guys like beasleay rotting on the bench they are great weapons for this offense. Instead of watching a beast like Murray carry the ball 12 times a game, he gets the ball 30 times a game. Instead of Romo throwing the ball 50 times a game and two picks, he throws it 30 times a game with a play action element and red zone efficiency. instead of a one dimensional desperate offense, we have a well balanced machine that can pick up the short yardage plays and run out the clock in the 2nd half.

But hey, Garrett picked Linehan right?

Yes, thanks for illustrating my point. That is exactly how Commander fans sound when discussing Garrett.

Actually all 3 fan bases of the other NFC East teams sound that way.

Of course most of them don't actually believe what they're saying... they're just trolling to elicit a response out of Cowboy fans.

For some reason they like to invent crazy BS to argue with Cowboy fans about.

Oh well, I quit worrying about that stuff years ago. I tend to just laugh it off because they are being ridiculous and are only showing how little they know about football.