Tom Brady suspension nullified

[Nightman]

The NFL never asked Brady to give up his phone, as I understand it. They asked Brady to show them the texts, on a honor basis, that pertained to the issue. They refused and that's a matter of record. The NFL then asked to have his legal team give copies of the texts in print, also on the honor system, which was again refused and again, a matter of record. The Brady team did neither until way after the fact. All of this was reported as it happened.

Again, the question of guilt is no longer. They were guilty and that's not the issue. It's the process, by which, the NFL chose to handle this issue.

Brady's lawyers offered to give them a list of the 10,000 numbers or so from his phone.

They said the NFL could track these people down and ask them to turn over their texts with Tom.

They call that farce co-operating. Tom wouldn't comply but his friends will turn over private texts without a subpoena. C'mon.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Brady's lawyers offered to give them a list of the 10,000 numbers or so from his phone.

They said the NFL could track these people down and ask them to turn over their texts with Tom.

They call that farce co-operating. Tom wouldn't comply but his friends will turn over private texts without a subpoena. C'mon.

There were thousands of texts but only 25 different names associated with the NFL, so they could have easily followed up with those 25 people if they wanted to. Another distortion by the league.

 

[Kevinicus]

The NFL is not a court of law, the police, judge, jury, they are an employer and should let the legal system do their job and stay out of players business !!!

Cheating in the NFL is not a matter for the legal system.

 

[Rogah]

What does this have to do with anything?

What those cases have to do with this is they speak to the matter of precedent.

2009: NY Jets equipment manager gets caught illegally preparing k-balls. He got suspended, but there was no investigation, no punishment of the kicker, and no concept of whether or not the kicker was "generally aware" that the tampering was taking place. (Unfortunately for the league, that kicker happened to be one of Brady's closest friends and he testified to what I have just written before the judge)

2014: Panthers ball boy gets caught heating balls on the sideline of a cold game. There was no investigation, no punishment of anyone, and no concept of whether or not the QB was "generally aware" that the footballs were about 50 degrees warmer than the ambient air temperature. In fact, there was nothing beyond a Letter of Warning.

Even if we assume the Patriots balls were deliberately deflated (which I do not believe is the case, but will go along with here for the sake of argument), it is a violation of federal law to dole out punishment within a Collectively Bargained Agreement in an arbitrary and capricious manner. Doesn't matter what the CBA says because any clause in any contract which violates federal law will not be enforced. You can't give 2 players a total free pass and then throw the book at a 3rd guy for virtually identical crimes.

 

[Nightman]

There were thousands of texts but only 25 different names associated with the NFL, so they could have easily followed up with those 25 people if they wanted to. Another distortion by the league.

That's not the humorous part. The idea that 25 people that are personal friends with Tom Brady are going to show private texts after Brady himself refused is hilarious.

 

[Nightman]

What those cases have to do with this is they speak to the matter of precedent.

2009: NY Jets equipment manager gets caught illegally preparing k-balls. He got suspended, but there was no investigation, no punishment of the kicker, and no concept of whether or not the kicker was "generally aware" that the tampering was taking place. (Unfortunately for the league, that kicker happened to be one of Brady's closest friends and he testified to what I have just written before the judge)

2014: Panthers ball boy gets caught heating balls on the sideline of a cold game. There was no investigation, no punishment of anyone, and no concept of whether or not the QB was "generally aware" that the footballs were about 50 degrees warmer than the ambient air temperature. In fact, there was nothing beyond a Letter of Warning.

Even if we assume the Patriots balls were deliberately deflated (which I do not believe is the case, but will go along with here for the sake of argument), it is a violation of federal law to dole out punishment within a Collectively Bargained Agreement in an arbitrary and capricious manner. Doesn't matter what the CBA says because any clause in any contract which violates federal law will not be enforced. You can't give 2 players a total free pass and then throw the book at a 3rd guy for virtually identical crimes.

The CAR incident was an innocent mistake. The CAR ballboy was warming up a ball in plain view on the MINN sideline. A ref was informed and told him that wasn't allowed. He immediately stopped and the ball was removed from the game permenantly.

He didn't illegally take all the CAR balls into the bathroom and deflate them.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

The CAR incident was an innocent mistake. The CAR ballboy was warming up a ball in plain view on the MINN sideline. A ref was informed and told him that wasn't allowed. He immediately stopped and the ball was removed from the game permenantly.

He didn't illegally take all the CAR balls into the bathroom and deflate them.

Pesky facts.




YR

 

[Nightman]

Even if we assume the Patriots balls were deliberately deflated (which I do not believe is the case, but will go along with here for the sake of argument), it is a violation of federal law to dole out punishment within a Collectively Bargained Agreement in an arbitrary and capricious manner. Doesn't matter what the CBA says because any clause in any contract which violates federal law will not be enforced. You can't give 2 players a total free pass and then throw the book at a 3rd guy for virtually identical crimes.

So we agree Hardy should not be suspended at all.

16 players since 2006 were charged with DV but were not convicted. None of them got suspended.

And don't say he was convicted, the bench trial doesn't count. It is a glorified arraignment.

 

[Rogah]

The CAR incident was an innocent mistake.

First of all, how does that matter? Second of all, that's bull. I knew that warming up balls on the sidelines is illegal, so I don't believe for a single second that the guy whose job it is is to take care of the balls didn't know.

 

[Nightman]

First of all, how does that matter? Second of all, that's bull. I knew that warming up balls on the sidelines is illegal, so I don't believe for a single second that the guy whose job it is is to take care of the balls didn't know.

If there wasn't notice provided, ignorance is a valid excuse.

 

[dallasdave]

Cheating in the NFL is not a matter for the legal system.

Well apparently it is !!! Who made the ruling on this the NFL or the Judge ?

 

[Rogah]

So we agree Hardy should not be suspended at all.

If you are asking my opinion, he should be in jail right now. But within the structure of the CBA, he should have been given no more than 2 games. I have stated several times that I believe he would have gotten a reduction if he went to federal court, but that he would choose not to go to federal court because it isn't worth going from 4 games to 2 games when you consider that information about the assault (including those pictures) would likely have been released.

While there is no way to know if I am right in predicting the reduction, it turns out I was right when I said he would leave well enough alone, and be happy with the reduction from 10 to 4. It also turns out that everyone who said he would definitely sue because "he had nothing to lose" were wrong.

16 players since 2006 were charged with DV but were not convicted. None of them got suspended.

Not true. Ray Rice was not convicted of DV but he got 2 games.

And don't say he was convicted, the bench trial doesn't count. It is a glorified arraignment.

So an actual trial where Hardy was found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is a "glorified arraignment" but a sham investigation where Brady was found "more probable than not" to have been "generally aware" is perfect valid?

Yeesh.

 

[Rogah]

If there wasn't notice provided, ignorance is a valid excuse.

The gameday operations manual is provided to all teams and individuals who work with gameday equipment, so notice was provided.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Not true. Ray Rice was not convicted of DV but he got 2 games.

Chargers were dropped pending him doing a program for people who have committed domestic violence. Bit different

 

[Nightman]

If you are asking my opinion, he should be in jail right now. But within the structure of the CBA, he should have been given no more than 2 games. I have stated several times that I believe he would have gotten a reduction if he went to federal court, but that he would choose not to go to federal court because it isn't worth going from 4 games to 2 games when you consider that information about the assault (including those pictures) would likely have been released.

While there is no way to know if I am right in predicting the reduction, it turns out I was right when I said he would leave well enough alone, and be happy with the reduction from 10 to 4. It also turns out that everyone who said he would definitely sue because "he had nothing to lose" were wrong.
Not true. Ray Rice was not convicted of DV but he got 2 games.
So an actual trial where Hardy was found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is a "glorified arraignment" but a sham investigation where Brady was found "more probable than not" to have been "generally aware" is perfect valid?

Yeesh.

RRice plead guilty and admitted his guilt to Goodell

 

[Rogah]

Chargers were dropped pending him doing a program for people who have committed domestic violence. Bit different

I said Rice was not convicted but was suspended anyway. Your statement that charges were dropped on the condition of attending a pre-trial diversion is completely accurate, but does nothing to contradict my statement.

 

[Rogah]

RRice plead guilty and admitted his guilt to Goodell

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts: Ray Rice did not plead guilty. He pled Not Guilty and charges were ultimately dropped.

In other words, he wasn't convicted of anything.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I said Rice was not convicted but was suspended anyway. Your statement that charges were dropped on the condition of attending a pre-trial diversion is completely accurate, but does nothing to contradict my statement.

Just seems you are arguing semantics. His entering the program is an admission of guilt, therefore any actions taken by Goodell would be considered reasonable. Apples and Oranges versus Hardy

 

[Kevinicus]

Well apparently it is !!! Who made the ruling on this the NFL or the Judge ?

They were not determining guilt or innocence.

Labor law can be a legal matter. Completely different.

 

[khiladi]

You're complaining that the coach wasn't punished and you implicated him as part of the scheme. You said the Wells report was "predicated on the fact that Belichick didn't know" which is untrue. The Wells Report made no such assumption; in fact, Wells investigated Belichick and found him to be innocent of any wrong doing.

No, I said the Wells report FOCUSED on Brady, I never said the NFL claimed Belichek didn't know. I've said that from the very beginning so cut the nonsense of trying to tell me what I believe or said.

And the hypocrisy is clear if your trying to argue Goodell was out to get Brady. If you assume the NFL targeted Brady in a witch-hunt, why would one assume they were fair in their assessment of Bellichek and Kraft. Which is it?

Goodell burned evidence as it relates to Spygate.

You didn't use the word "unfair" to describe Belichick, but you said he was involved and should have been punished, despite the fact that he was completely exonerated by Wells.

I know exactly what I said. I could give a rats if the NFL claims he was 'exonerated'. As I said, the NFL had more to lose via that route, because Bellicgek is not covered by the CBA.

The judge actually did touch briefly in the issue of guilt. The NFL lawyer (Pash) admitted under oath there was no direct evidence linking Brady to the "crime."

So what? Circumstantial evidence is used to prosecute all the time, thus the judge being careful to choose the words 'DIRECT'. As I said, he didn't touch the issue of crime and neither does the NFL need to pursue standards of evidence that courts use in deterring guilt per the CBA.

He also admitted to Brady being on his fantasy football team and he was excited to see how Brady would use all his weapons. What exactly is your point?

They changed the rules as a result of each play. I don't see how that gives more attention to one than the other. But if the worst you have is that the refs made a bad call in the Patriots game (which isn't even true) then I don't see how that's "cheating."

I never said they cheated, what I stated is claiming the NFL was targeting the Patriots is ridiculous, one of the reasons demonstrating it is their constantly overlooking of this issue, while chanting from the rooftops about how the alleged call by Dez was correct.

And Kraft and Goodell were partying the night before with the Colts. And the Patriots didn't even interview guys until after the Super Bowl. And the league didn't reveal the results of the Wells Report after this year's draft. And so on..