Tom Brady suspension nullified

[khiladi]

If there wasn't notice provided, ignorance is a valid excuse.

Oh snap!!!

 

[Yakuza Rich]

First of all, how does that matter? Second of all, that's bull. I knew that warming up balls on the sidelines is illegal, so I don't believe for a single second that the guy whose job it is is to take care of the balls didn't know.

Really?

How about the general idea that deflating footballs provides and advantage. Therefore, warming up a football which would lead to less deflation would not provide an advantage. Therefore, it's logical to assume that particular equipment manager didn't know.

I can tell you that I didn't know that you couldn't heat the footballs.

And there's a difference between a guy who is heating up footballs on the opposing team's sidelines, right in front of everybody and the ref telling him he can't do that than a guy sneaking off into a bathroom with the footballs by himself and having texts showing that he had conspired to illegally deflate footballs for payment.





YR

 

[khiladi]

The gameday operations manual is provided to all teams and individuals who work with gameday equipment, so notice was provided.

And Brady was one of the driving forces behind the rule change in regards to PSI in 2007-2008..

 

[Rogah]

Just seems you are arguing semantics. His entering the program is an admission of guilt, therefore any actions taken by Goodell would be considered reasonable. Apples and Oranges versus Hardy

If entering a pretrial diversionary program is an admission of guilt, then paying off the victim to go away is also an admission of guilt.

Furthermore, you're moving the goalposts. The statement bkight made was "16 players since 2006 were charged with DV but were not convicted. None of them got suspended." Ray Rice stands as a valid example disproving that statement.

 

[Rogah]

Really?

How about the general idea that deflating footballs provides and advantage. Therefore, warming up a football which would lead to less deflation would not provide an advantage.

Warming up a football on a bitterly cold day makes the balls easier to grip, catch, throw and handle. That's why they did it.

Therefore, it's logical to assume that particular equipment manager didn't know.

I find it impossible to believe an professional equipment manager did not know a rule that I knew of.

I can tell you that I didn't know that you couldn't heat the footballs.

Then I guess I know more about the sport of football than you do.

And there's a difference between a guy who is heating up footballs on the opposing team's sidelines, right in front of everybody and the ref telling him he can't do that than a guy sneaking off into a bathroom with the footballs by himself and having texts showing that he had conspired to illegally deflate footballs for payment.

So breaking the rules is OK so long as you do it in front of everybody? Why didn't they apply that logic to Spygate?

 

[Manwiththeplan]

If entering a pretrial diversionary program is an admission of guilt, then paying off the victim to go away is also an admission of guilt.

Paying off someone is pretty close to an admission of guilt, but I don't think Hardy is as innocent as most here do, so I have held this point of view for a while. And fwiw, there's about as much evidence that Hardy paid her off as there is the Pats/Brady paid off the two ball boys

Furthermore, you're moving the goalposts. The statement bkight made was "16 players since 2006 were charged with DV but were not convicted. None of them got suspended." Ray Rice stands as a valid example disproving that statement.

I'm not moving the goal post, because it wasn't my argument. I simply thought your statement was disingenuous, so I clarified.

 

[Rogah]

And Brady was one of the driving forces behind the rule change in regards to PSI in 2007-2008..

That rule change was implemented in 2006, only applied to road games, and had nothing to do with PSI.

Old rule: Home team provides all game balls.
New rule: Each team provides their own balls.

One thing we know without a doubt is the ALL quarterbacks are very particular about how their gameday footballs are prepared. It is literally a weeks-long process which starts in training camp. Tell me, which rule do you think makes more sense, the old one or the new one? Do you want the NY Giants equipment manager preparing Tony Romo's gameday balls when the Cowboys travel to East Rutherford? Do you want the Commanders equipment manager preparing Tony Romo's gameday balls when the Cowboys go to Landover? Or would you rather have the Cowboys equipment manager preparing Tony Romo's gameday balls?

 

[Rogah]

Paying off someone is pretty close to an admission of guilt, but I don't think Hardy is as innocent as most here do, so I have held this point of view for a while. And fwiw, there's about as much evidence that Hardy paid her off as there is the Pats/Brady paid off the two ball boys



I'm not moving the goal post, because it wasn't my argument. I simply thought your statement was disingenuous, so I clarified.

Fair enough.

 

[khiladi]

That rule change was implemented in 2006, only applied to road games, and had nothing to do with PSI.

Old rule: Home team provides all game balls.
New rule: Each team provides their own balls.

One thing we know without a doubt is the ALL quarterbacks are very particular about how their gameday footballs are prepared. It is literally a weeks-long process which starts in training camp. Tell me, which rule do you think makes more sense, the old one or the new one? Do you want the NY Giants equipment manager preparing Tony Romo's gameday balls when the Cowboys travel to East Rutherford? Do you want the Commanders equipment manager preparing Tony Romo's gameday balls when the Cowboys go to Landover? Or would you rather have the Cowboys equipment manager preparing Tony Romo's gameday balls?

Do you even know how you sound right now?

The very logic you argue as basis for this rule change would necessitate Brady would have known the rules of tampering and that deflating balls under a particular PSI would affect the game.

And further, the logic implied that Brady would have every reason to be interested in the state of the balls that some random ball boy wouldn't just deflate it to some random levels.

What more spinning you going to engage in?

Like Brady said when asked about the illegal reception formation complaint, maybe they should familiarize themselves with the rule book...

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Warming up a football on a bitterly cold day makes the balls easier to grip, catch, throw and handle. That's why they did it.

Actually, deflating a football makes it easier to grip and handle as shown by the massive drop in fumble rate by the Patriots and the enormous drop in Brady's sacks per fumble rate (especially when compared to QB's of similar experience and similar sacks per fumble rate).

There was also discussion that when DeflateGate came out that deflating footballs made them easier to throw and easier to catch as well. I believe the book Football Physics (with a foreword from Bill Belichick) discusses deflated footballs being easier to catch.

Where inflating a football would be beneficial is in kicking the ball, but since it wasn't a K-Ball that damages your theory.

I find it impossible to believe an professional equipment manager did not know a rule that I knew of.

Pro Golfer Craig Stadler got disqualified from a golf event because his ball was under a tree and he was going to hit the ball from his knees. He didn't want to get his slacks dirty, so he laid down a towel for him to kneel on and he hit the ball. He didn't know that is against the rules (improving your stance) that some caller called in. Stuff happens.

One of my friends used to work on the equipment crew for the Bucs back in the 90's. His pay was $20 a game and basically getting to be on an NFL field. His training? None. Just show up and do what you're told and enjoy going to a free game.

It's not like these guys (and gals) are highly trained and focus solely on being the best worker they can be.

Then I guess I know more about the sport of football than you do.

Probably. I'm not the one that everybody makes jokes about at their expense. And I'm not the one that claimed I was going to stick to the Wells Report findings and then reneged on that promise.

So breaking the rules is OK so long as you do it in front of everybody? Why didn't they apply that logic to Spygate?

Again, there's a complete difference.

SpyGate was done undercover. They had camera people on the OPPOSING TEAMS SIDELINES disguised as NFL film crews stealing signs.

There was no attempt to disguise what the Carolina ball boy was doing. He was doing in right on the Minnesota sidelines and even the Minnesota players didn't say anything.

Why?

Because they probably didn't know it was a rule (guess you know more about football than pro football players and coaches, too).

Some ref saw it, because it was not disguised, and said 'hey, you can't heat footballs up' and he stopped.

It's all about intent. One guy clearly made an innocent mistake and it was stopped fairly quickly. Another guy snuck off into a bathroom by himself with the footballs and texted about deflating footballs for payment.





YR

 

[khiladi]

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/federal-judge-admits-having-brady-on-fantasy-team

Sounds like a Pats fan to me....

 

[Kevinicus]

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/federal-judge-admits-having-brady-on-fantasy-team

Sounds like a Pats fan to me....

That is a comedy piece. Or at least a poor attempt at one. It's not not real.

 

[Rogah]

Do you even know how you sound right now?

The very logic you argue as basis for this rule change would necessitate Brady would have known the rules of tampering and that deflating balls under a particular PSI would affect the game.

And further, the logic implied that Brady would have every reason to be interested in the state of the balls that some random ball boy wouldn't just deflate it to some random levels.

What more spinning you going to engage in?

Like Brady said when asked about the illegal reception formation complaint, maybe they should familiarize themselves with the rule book...

You're making very little sense. The preparation of the balls goes FAR beyond simply inflating them to a specific level. It is literally a weeks-long process that every QB has the equipment managers perform to his own specifications.

So I ask again: When Dallas plays a road game against NY, who should prepare Tony Romo's playing balls? The Dallas equipment manager or the Giants equipment manager?

 

[Rogah]

Actually, deflating a football makes it easier to grip and handle

So warming the balls has the same effect as deflating the balls. Thank you for agreeing with the point I have been making for months.

SpyGate was done undercover. They had camera people on the OPPOSING TEAMS SIDELINES disguised as NFL film crews stealing signs.

Uh, not even close.

 

[Rogah]

No, I said the Wells report FOCUSED on Brady, I never said the NFL claimed Belichek didn't know. I've said that from the very beginning so cut the nonsense of trying to tell me what I believe or said.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Really?

How about the general idea that deflating footballs provides and advantage. Therefore, warming up a football which would lead to less deflation would not provide an advantage. Therefore, it's logical to assume that particular equipment manager didn't know.

I can tell you that I didn't know that you couldn't heat the footballs.

And there's a difference between a guy who is heating up footballs on the opposing team's sidelines, right in front of everybody and the ref telling him he can't do that than a guy sneaking off into a bathroom with the footballs by himself and having texts showing that he had conspired to illegally deflate footballs for payment.





YR

That sounds a lot like Spygate. The cam was rolling right out in the open on the sideline where 75000 people could see it.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Lol @Rogah

 

[40yrpatsfan]

To recap:
- the Wells report admits they don't even know if there was any tampering by anybody
- the Wells report refuses to accept Walt Anderson's recollection about which gauge he used because they couldn't prosecute Brady if they did
- the Wells report omits all 14 hours of testimony by the 2 balls boys because it didn't contain anything damaging to the Patriots
- the Wells report was co-authored by Pash, an NFL executive, while Goodell & Wells repeatedly claim that Wells is independent
- Goodell denies Brady's attorneys the ability to question Pash
- Goodell denies Brady's attorneys access to any of the interview notes that were the basis of the Wells report
- Goodell's arbitration summary is full of lies and distortions when compared to the actual testimony that eventually got released
- Goodell is disemboweled by a senior federal judge
- Goodell, confident in his position, appeals the case

Does that about sum it up?

 

[Rogah]

Does that about sum it up?

I have added a bit to your summation with a few of the facts which I have found to be particularly egregious. Additions in line below:

- the Wells report refuses to accept Walt Anderson's recollection about which gauge he used because they couldn't prosecute Brady if they did

What is frustrating about this is that the Wells Report relies very heavily on Anderson's best recollection for anything that paints the Patriots in a bad light, but then completely disregards his best recollection for one very pertinent fact which would have put the Patriots in a good light.

- the Wells report was co-authored by Pash, an NFL executive, while Goodell & Wells repeatedly claim that Wells is independent

I find this particularly galling. Goodell spent all of February, March and April telling us all that this was an independent investigation. I wish I had a nickel for every time he said so. Then it comes out that it wasn't even remotely independent.

- Goodell's arbitration summary is full of lies and distortions when compared to the actual testimony that eventually got released

Ya, the NFL lied about just about everything from the arbitration hearing. My favorite was how they lied when they said Brady's lawyers opposed releasing the transcript of the arbitration hearing. Once that transcript was released, it turns out Kessler wanted it released, and it was the league who refused to allow it.

The NFL has been proven to have been lying over and over to everyone since this whole idiocy began. For some reason, certain people don't care.

 

[khiladi]

You're making very little sense. The preparation of the balls goes FAR beyond simply inflating them to a specific level. It is literally a weeks-long process that every QB has the equipment managers perform to his own specifications.

So I ask again: When Dallas plays a road game against NY, who should prepare Tony Romo's playing balls? The Dallas equipment manager or the Giants equipment manager?

Apparently your the only one thinking it makes no sense. So preparing the ball includes PSI right? I mean Brady likes his balls deflated as part of that preparation right?

So by your logic, this rule change would necessarily imply Brady must have known about the rules, just like the ball boys. Right?