The defense will be better with Zeke

[rpntex]

Adam says the running game has little effect on winning and losing in the NFL now have fun twisting and turning trying to defend it.

Man, you are arguing something entirely different here. Here..let me break it down this way...

1 - If you run better and pass better your opponent, you will win 80% of the time.

2 - if your opponent out-rushes you, but you pass better your opponent, you will win 80% of the time.

3 - if you out-rush your opponent, but they pass better than you, you will LOSE 80% of the time.

4 - if they run better and pass better than you, you will LOSE 80% of the time.

Now...what is common in all four of those examples? The team that passes better wins 80% of the time, regardless of what the running game does. NOBODY is saying that the running game has no effect on the passing game. Of course a strong running game helps make the passing game better - the people saying that are right. Nobody is saying otherwise. What's being said, that you are just flat out ignoring, is that REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE RUNNING GAME DOES, if you don't pass better than your opponent, you will lose the majority of the time. The people saying that are right as well

 

[KJJ]

Man, you are arguing something entirely different here. Here..let me break it down this way...

1 - If you run better and pass better your opponent, you will win 80% of the time.

2 - if your opponent out-rushes you, but you pass better your opponent, you will win 80% of the time.

3 - if you out-rush your opponent, but they pass better than you, you will LOSE 80% of the time.

4 - if they run better and pass better than you, you will LOSE 80% of the time.

Now...what is common in all four of those examples? The team that passes better wins 80% of the time, regardless of what the running game does. NOBODY is saying that the running game has no effect on the passing game. Of course a strong running game helps make the passing game better - the people saying that are right. Nobody is saying otherwise. What's being said, that you are just flat out ignoring, is that REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE RUNNING GAME DOES, if you don't pass better than your opponent, you will lose the majority of the time. The people saying that are right as well

Another one of Adams victims.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Another one of Adams victims.

I have to say you are a master of if ignoring the empirical and inserting wishful thinking.

 

[KJJ]

I have to say you are a master of if ignoring the empirical and inserting wishful thinking.

Appears that comment hit home. lol

 

[Rogerthat12]

Man, you are arguing something entirely different here. Here..let me break it down this way...

1 - If you run better and pass better your opponent, you will win 80% of the time.

2 - if your opponent out-rushes you, but you pass better your opponent, you will win 80% of the time.

3 - if you out-rush your opponent, but they pass better than you, you will LOSE 80% of the time.

4 - if they run better and pass better than you, you will LOSE 80% of the time.

Now...what is common in all four of those examples? The team that passes better wins 80% of the time, regardless of what the running game does. NOBODY is saying that the running game has no effect on the passing game. Of course a strong running game helps make the passing game better - the people saying that are right. Nobody is saying otherwise. What's being said, that you are just flat out ignoring, is that REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE RUNNING GAME DOES, if you don't pass better than your opponent, you will lose the majority of the time. The people saying that are right as well

Of course a strong running game helps make the passing game better

The either/or logical fallacy seems to have overtaken this subject matter, you nailed it!

Some are in denial of this fact (quote above) and some QB's are naturally better at passing than others, while some QB's are better passers with the help of a dominant and dynamic running game.

Obviously some QB's can simply win by passing, not every QB needs a dynamic running attack to pass better or more effectively, it depends on the QB, offense and passing attack.

This is really the key to understanding the 2014 Dallas Cowboys, Romo in specific plays better and more effective with this particular formula.

Jason Garrett articulates clearly why they drafted Zeke and how the 2014 style of running game allows for a positive impact on both the offense and defense :

1) Helps QB by taking pressure off.
2) Helps WR's with favorable looks outside because of run defenses.
3) Possess the ball more.
4) More plays on offense.
5) Fewer plays on defense.
6) Allows defense to play at a higher level.
7) Pervasive impact on entire team.

He states "Similar to how we played a couple years ago when we ran the ball so effectively and I thought it had a positive impact on everyone throughout our team and we believe Zeke gives us a chance to do that".

This was from the presser, start time 4:42 and 5:20 specifically.

Zeke also helps the passing game because he is a natural pass catcher.



http://www.dallascowboys.com/video/2016/04/28/press-conference-after-picking-ezekiel-elliott

 

[jnday]

You're fundamentally misunderstanding the argument you're trying to counter *again* here. Which is, of course, the real reason I'm not seriously engaging in the thread.

Nobody ever says the running game has no effect on winning and losing. How is this difficult? It's literally been years we've been discussing the topic.


Oops! Forgot I'd said I'd let you have the last word here. My bad.

I disagree. Adam has said time after time that the passing game is the only thing that matters and that the running game has no effect on winning.

 

[bsheeern]

Except that how well you run the ball or stop the run has almost no effect on winning and losing. Anyone who doesn't realize that is simply ignoring the facts.

Man, you are arguing something entirely different here. Here..let me break it down this way...

1 - If you run better and pass better your opponent, you will win 80% of the time.

2 - if your opponent out-rushes you, but you pass better your opponent, you will win 80% of the time.

3 - if you out-rush your opponent, but they pass better than you, you will LOSE 80% of the time.

4 - if they run better and pass better than you, you will LOSE 80% of the time.

Now...what is common in all four of those examples? The team that passes better wins 80% of the time, regardless of what the running game does. NOBODY is saying that the running game has no effect on the passing game. Of course a strong running game helps make the passing game better - the people saying that are right. Nobody is saying otherwise. What's being said, that you are just flat out ignoring, is that REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE RUNNING GAME DOES, if you don't pass better than your opponent, you will lose the majority of the time. The people saying that are right as well

Actually they are. You only have to go back 1 page to see it.

 

[bsheeern]

Except that Romo was also much better when the running game was not a factor at all -- on third-and-long, in the two-minute offense, with an empty backfield and when Murray wasn't even on the field.

I just don't get how something that has been a part of the game for 28 minutes simply has no affect on the last 2.

 

[bsheeern]

The either/or logical fallacy seems to have overtaken this subject matter, you nailed it!

Some are in denial of this fact (quote above) and some QB's are naturally better at passing than others, while some QB's are better passers with the help of a dominant and dynamic running game.

Obviously some QB's can simply win by passing, not every QB needs a dynamic running attack to pass better or more effectively, it depends on the QB, offense and passing attack.

This is really the key to understanding the 2014 Dallas Cowboys, Romo in specific plays better and more effective with this particular formula.

Jason Garrett articulates clearly why they drafted Zeke and how the 2014 style of running game allows for a positive impact on both the offense and defense :

1) Helps QB by taking pressure off.
2) Helps WR's with favorable looks outside because of run defenses.
3) Possess the ball more.
4) More plays on offense.
5) Fewer plays on defense.
6) Allows defense to play at a higher level.
7) Pervasive impact on entire team.

He states "Similar to how we played a couple years ago when we ran the ball so effectively and I thought it had a positive impact on everyone throughout our team and we believe Zeke gives us a chance to do that".

This was from the presser, start time 4:42 and 5:20 specifically.

Zeke also helps the passing game because he is a natural pass catcher.



http://www.dallascowboys.com/video/2016/04/28/press-conference-after-picking-ezekiel-elliott

This is where looking past a Surface stat and actually digging into the dynamics of each specific team come into play. Creating a mindset that Helps Romo feel as if he doesn't have to do everything .
Well said sir and Good find.

 

[bsheeern]

He states "Similar to how we played a couple years ago when we ran the ball so effectively and I thought it had a positive impact on everyone throughout our team and we believe Zeke gives us a chance to do that".


http://www.dallascowboys.com/video/2016/04/28/press-conference-after-picking-ezekiel-elliott

GOLDEN

 

[CowboyRoy]

Yeah ...... They did. Last Year. We aren't going to have a top 5 D. Not any time soon. Unless the offense is rolling.

The amount of resources and money we have tied up in the Offense, dictates that we be successful there. If the offense is working....the D will , hopefully, be enough.

We have a young Oline. and they are going to want to get PAID. Along with Dez..... Romo is sucking up a big chunk too...... but even when Romo is gone...we are going to still have an offensive oriented team with the big guys up front...... I would like them to go into FA next year and splurge a little, and get some big boys on the Dline....or even this year with a trade..... they left the D hanging for sure.....But having Zeke was the best move they couldve made....

barring catastrophic injury, I think win the NFCE because of the choice. I don't think I would feel that way, if we went Bosa, or Ramsey.

more then anything....they seem to be committing to the run game. Which I think will pay dividends more then anything else we could do...

Run game is awesome and it what I have been hammering for ever since Garrett became the OC. So I am very happy there. But with the Cowboys having moderate to little success with anything beyond the first round they are going to have to start investing in the defense with first round picks more than they have been. Drafting in the 2nd half of the first round you will be hard pressed find shut down corners and pass rushers. But I never thought we were winning the SB any time soon anyway.

QB, DE, CB you typically need to be up real high to have a shot at the best of these. We were there this year for the first time in 15 years or more and we came away with none of them. In the end, that is my only gripe. That and the fact that they never seem to have a set plan and stick with it. Too much all over the place, year to year, short term thinking.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I the offense that Dallas runs , a good RB is needed to run the offense at the highest level. If Zeke rushes for 1800 yards and the Cowboys make a deep playoff run, opinions will change in a heart beat . DMac and his three TDs us what an average RB will do ibout him and it surprises some posters. Speaking on general terms, E, Smith, T. Davis in Denver, and many more have shown the value in drafting great RBs. How are you going to get the most value out of the oline without a great RB? That would be like having scrub WRs due to Romo being a very good QB.

I love Zeke, but I dont think you needed to draft him to get 1800 yards rushing out of your run game. Henry would have been just fine in the 2nd round. This kid will have to be unstoppable and 2000 combined yards and do it for 8 years for him to be worth the price we paid for him. But I look forward to watching him try. I just know that we arent winning diddly until we get a top 5 defense. And with Romo winding down, he will be toast in 2 or 3 years if not sooner. So in 3 years we have what exactly? A lame defense, no Romo replacement and a great run game for another couple of years? I wanted more out of the draft, but I guess I will have to settle for average. This was a good draft for someone picking from 10th to 15th. Not someone picking 4th.

 

[Rogerthat12]

This is where looking past a Surface stat and actually digging into the dynamics of each specific team come into play. Creating a mindset that Helps Romo feel as if he doesn't have to do everything .
Well said sir and Good find.

Go watch the Seattle game 2014, against the best defense and watch what the running game did for the team.

Look at the stats for the game, Murray with the big fourth quarter TD.

This explains why Garrett pushed for Zeke!

 

[CowboyRoy]

What if I told you that time of possession stats between 2014 and 2015 weren't all that much different?

1 or 2 minutes and 7 to 10 plays makes a big difference.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Go watch the Seattle game 2014, against the best defense and watch what the running game did for the team.

Look at the stats for the game, Murray with the big fourth quarter TD.

This explains why Garrett pushed for Zeke!

Garrett finally figured out the importance of the run game for this team. Nice to know he can at least learn from his mistakes from time to time.

 

[CATCH17]

I see what Adam is getting at but Dallas has to impose their will on the ground when you have a offensive system as bad as we have.

We are very middle schoolish with our passing scheme so the threat of the run is vital for us to get matchups downfield.


The run game is another way around Garrett passing scheme.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

The either/or logical fallacy seems to have overtaken this subject matter, you nailed it!

Some are in denial of this fact (quote above) and some QB's are naturally better at passing than others, while some QB's are better passers with the help of a dominant and dynamic running game.

Obviously some QB's can simply win by passing, not every QB needs a dynamic running attack to pass better or more effectively, it depends on the QB, offense and passing attack.

This is really the key to understanding the 2014 Dallas Cowboys, Romo in specific plays better and more effective with this particular formula.

Jason Garrett articulates clearly why they drafted Zeke and how the 2014 style of running game allows for a positive impact on both the offense and defense :

1) Helps QB by taking pressure off.
2) Helps WR's with favorable looks outside because of run defenses.
3) Possess the ball more.
4) More plays on offense.
5) Fewer plays on defense.
6) Allows defense to play at a higher level.
7) Pervasive impact on entire team.

He states "Similar to how we played a couple years ago when we ran the ball so effectively and I thought it had a positive impact on everyone throughout our team and we believe Zeke gives us a chance to do that".

This was from the presser, start time 4:42 and 5:20 specifically.

Zeke also helps the passing game because he is a natural pass catcher.



http://www.dallascowboys.com/video/2016/04/28/press-conference-after-picking-ezekiel-elliott

Let's assume this is true. Romo's efficiency raises when he has a good running game.

Can you explain to me why we needed to spend the 4th overall pick to do this when we proved last year we can run the ball with much fewer resources at the position and in 2014 we only needed a 3rd round rb investment?

 

[Rogerthat12]

Let's assume this is true. Romo's efficiency raises when he has a good running game.

Can you explain to me why we needed to spend the 4th overall pick to do this when we proved last year we can run the ball with much fewer resources at the position and in 2014 we only needed a 3rd round rb investment?

I think by looking at the presser, Garrett feels like Zeke can give them a similar impact like the 2014 campaign, they appear to want to recreate the same climate.

I personally do not feel they needed to do so, they just wanted to do so because they apparently feel like Zeke is a special talent that is potentially much better than Murray.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I think by looking at the presser, Garrett feels like Zeke can give them a similar impact like the 2014 campaign, they appear to want to recreate the same climate.

I personally do not feel they needed to do so, they just wanted to do so because they apparently feel like Zeke is a special talent that is potentially much better than Murray.

This I can agree with. It is obvious they felt like they needed Zeke. That is self evident based on their decision to draft Zeke.

I simply disagree and I feel pretty comfortable that history is on my side.

 

[Rogerthat12]

This I can agree with. It is obvious they felt like they needed Zeke. That is self evident based on their decision to draft Zeke.

I simply disagree and I feel pretty comfortable that history is on my side.

Time will tell but certainly the 2014 formula is what they are after in terms of approach and results.