The defense will be better with Zeke

[bsheeern]

Let's assume this is true. Romo's efficiency raises when he has a good running game.

Can you explain to me why we needed to spend the 4th overall pick to do this when we proved last year we can run the ball with much fewer resources at the position and in 2014 we only needed a 3rd round rb investment?

Maybe because they Feel that Elliott is a rare special talent? Maybe they feel that Elliot will Improve on that 2014 dynamic to a level that is worthy of a number 4 pick?

 

[Idgit]

I disagree. Adam has said time after time that the passing game is the only thing that matters and that the running game has no effect on winning.

No. He's saying the benefit you get from running better than your opponent does not significantly help you win games. That's not the same thing as saying the running game has no effect on winning.

Both teams will obviously still have running situations. It's a big part of the game.

 

[Rogerthat12]

No. He's saying the benefit you get from running better than your opponent does not significantly help you win games. That's not the same thing as saying the running game has no effect on winning.

Both teams will obviously still have running situations. It's a big part of the game.

You need to read this more closely:

Except that how well you run the ball or stop the run has almost no effect on winning and losing. Anyone who doesn't realize that is simply ignoring the facts.

Even you don't believe this crap right?

 

[percyhoward]

We will simply have to agree to disagree!.

The point you keep missing (or pretending to miss), is that we passed less because we were winning.

We didn't pass less in order to win. If you understand that, then we already agree.

 

[Rogerthat12]

The point you keep missing (or pretending to miss), is that we passed less because we were winning.

We didn't pass less in order to win. If you understand that, then we already agree.

"Pretending to" comments are childish, can we move past that crap?

I think you are missing the point, we passed less because we had a more balanced attack with a dynamic running game, this fact was the winning formula that Jason Garrett himself claims that led to the 2014 season success.

We were winning because of the synergy between the passing game and the running game.

Jason parsed it as such:

Jason Garrett articulates clearly why they drafted Zeke and how the 2014 style of running game allows for a positive impact on both the offense and defense :

1) Helps QB by taking pressure off.
2) Helps WR's with favorable looks outside because of run defenses.
3) Possess the ball more.
4) More plays on offense.
5) Fewer plays on defense.
6) Allows defense to play at a higher level.
7) Pervasive impact on entire team.

He states "Similar to how we played a couple years ago when we ran the ball so effectively and I thought it had a positive impact on everyone throughout our team and we believe Zeke gives us a chance to do that".

This was from the presser, start time 4:42 and 5:20 specifically.

Zeke also helps the passing game because he is a natural pass catcher.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/video/2016/04/28/press-conference-after-picking-ezekiel-elliott

 

[JoeBoBBY]

Run game is awesome and it what I have been hammering for ever since Garrett became the OC. So I am very happy there. But with the Cowboys having moderate to little success with anything beyond the first round they are going to have to start investing in the defense with first round picks more than they have been. Drafting in the 2nd half of the first round you will be hard pressed find shut down corners and pass rushers. But I never thought we were winning the SB any time soon anyway.

QB, DE, CB you typically need to be up real high to have a shot at the best of these. We were there this year for the first time in 15 years or more and we came away with none of them. In the end, that is my only gripe. That and the fact that they never seem to have a set plan and stick with it. Too much all over the place, year to year, short term thinking.

I'm still holding out hope for Romo....... And that's the difference in our little debate...

We can do it Roy.......We can do it....

-- You would think after 20 years I would learn not to .........................do that to myself.!!!

they hurt me Roy.......they hurt me....

 

[dallasdave]

I'm still holding out hope for Romo....... And that's the difference in our little debate...

We can do it Roy.......We can do it....

-- You would think after 20 years I would learn not to .........................do that to myself.!!!

they hurt me Roy.......they hurt me....

JoeBoBBY we finally got our RB !!! Maybe now we can get that # 6 Super Bowl Win !!!!

 

[JoeBoBBY]

JoeBoBBY we finally got our RB !!! Maybe now we can get that # 6 Super Bowl Win !!!!

That's what I am thinking. Return to 2014 run mentality....heck, even better with EE. And I really liked the Morris signing......

We have an easier schedule.
Maybe get some breaks with health/injuries...
Hopefully other teams struggle...
Get hot in December....

And find ourselves in the NFCCG...................... One game away!!

 

[Idgit]

You need to read this more closely.....Even you don't believe this crap right?

OMG, how is this confusing you guys? That quote is about rushing effectively.

If you're asking if I 'believe' in math, then, yes. We can put aside the 'even you' part of your question for the time being.

 

[rpntex]

The either/or logical fallacy seems to have overtaken this subject matter, you nailed it!

Some are in denial of this fact (quote above) and some QB's are naturally better at passing than others, while some QB's are better passers with the help of a dominant and dynamic running game.

Obviously some QB's can simply win by passing, not every QB needs a dynamic running attack to pass better or more effectively, it depends on the QB, offense and passing attack.

This is really the key to understanding the 2014 Dallas Cowboys, Romo in specific plays better and more effective with this particular formula.

Jason Garrett articulates clearly why they drafted Zeke and how the 2014 style of running game allows for a positive impact on both the offense and defense :

1) Helps QB by taking pressure off.
2) Helps WR's with favorable looks outside because of run defenses.
3) Possess the ball more.
4) More plays on offense.
5) Fewer plays on defense.
6) Allows defense to play at a higher level.
7) Pervasive impact on entire team.

He states "Similar to how we played a couple years ago when we ran the ball so effectively and I thought it had a positive impact on everyone throughout our team and we believe Zeke gives us a chance to do that".

This was from the presser, start time 4:42 and 5:20 specifically.

Zeke also helps the passing game because he is a natural pass catcher.



http://www.dallascowboys.com/video/2016/04/28/press-conference-after-picking-ezekiel-elliott

Let me restate this, as I obviously did not make it clear with the first post.

I think you are both right. A strong running game helps the passing game….Period!

AND

If you pass the ball better than your opponent, regardless of how well you run it – or don't Dash you will win the majority of the time.

The irony of this whole thread is the last several pages have been about people arguing two separate things, and treating them like they are the same.

 

[Rogerthat12]

OMG, how is this confusing you guys? That quote is about rushing effectively.

If you're asking if I 'believe' in math, then, yes. We can put aside the 'even you' part of your question for the time being.

Nothing is confusing, effectively running the ball definitely assists the passing game in the case of the 2014 Cowboys.

Ask Garrett, he says this was the catalyst to the 2014 success.

 

[Rogerthat12]

Let me restate this, as I obviously did not make it clear with the first post.

I think you are both right. A strong running game helps the passing game….Period!

AND

If you pass the ball better than your opponent, regardless of how well you run it – or don't Dash you will win the majority of the time.

The irony of this whole thread is the last several pages have been about people arguing two separate things, and treating them like they are the same.

I am arguing that it is both/and not an either/or as well.

I am simply offering a corrective to those that think the running game has little or no impact on the effectiveness of the passing game in terms of winning, particularly with reference to the 2014 Cowboys.

I fully believe the passing game is essential to winning!

 

[percyhoward]

"Pretending to" comments are childish, can we move past that crap?

I think you are missing the point, we passed less because we had a more balanced attack with a dynamic running game.

I say "pretending" because sometime people get into an argument, quickly realize they simply misunderstood the other guy's point, but then just keep arguing anyway to save face and not come across as stupid. If you're not doing that, my apologies.

All of those things in your numbered list are the reasons it's important to have a good pass/run balance. None of them supports the importance of limiting total pass attempts. There's no reason to limit pass attempts, as long as you're passing well.

 

[Rogerthat12]

I say "pretending" because sometime people get into an argument, quickly realize they simply misunderstood the other guy's point, but then just keep arguing anyway to save face and not come across as stupid. If you're not doing that, my apologies.

All of those things in your numbered list are the reasons it's important to have a good pass/run balance. None of them supports the importance of limiting total pass attempts. There's no reason to limit pass attempts, as long as you're passing well.

The limiting of pass attempts is obviously a result of the balance, that is my entire point!

 

[bsheeern]

No. He's saying the benefit you get from running better than your opponent does not significantly help you win games. That's not the same thing as saying the running game has no effect on winning.

Both teams will obviously still have running situations. It's a big part of the game.

I don't see how that word BETTER means you outrushed your opponents. If he had said "The benefit you get from rushing for more yards than your opponent does not significantly help you win games" then he's on to something.
Hopefully you see where I'm going with this.
One team can outrush the other team in total yards and ypc but yet the team who had less yards can be way more effective at running the ball.

 

[rpntex]

Another one of Adams victims.

Another illiterate poster…

How can you fellas not understand this? It doesn't say "if you pass better than you run the ball…", or "Passing trumps running the ball"…, or " The running game is not important to the passing game". It doesn't say any of that. For criminy's sake, it's not about YOUR passing game versus YOUR running game. It's about your passing game versus your opponent's passing game.

One last time – this thread has to eventually end – for those who are challenged by reading comprehension… Fax have shown that a strong running game helps the team's passing game. I am not disputing that. Adam and even made that comment in the earlier post of his period yet so you folks are carrying on as if we were saying that the running game has no effect on the passing game.

The numbers don't lie… Teams that pass the ball better than their opponents win 80% of the time. Teams that run the ball better than the opponents win a shade more than 50% of the time. Therefore, it only goes to reason that passing the ball better than the opposition is a more dependable indicator of winning.

 

[bsheeern]

Let me restate this, as I obviously did not make it clear with the first post.

I think you are both right. A strong running game helps the passing game….Period!

AND

If you pass the ball better than your opponent, regardless of how well you run it – or don't Dash you will win the majority of the time.

The irony of this whole thread is the last several pages have been about people arguing two separate things, and treating them like they are the same.

And I think what people are getting hung up on is the word above that's bold. Better isn't just more yards or even yards per carry. Just because one team rushes for more yards doesn't mean they were better at it. Effectiveness can't be just plainly measured in yards gained. Ask any NFL coach and they will tell you that.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

"Pretending to" comments are childish, can we move past that crap?

I think you are missing the point, we passed less because we had a more balanced attack with a dynamic running game, this fact was the winning formula that Jason Garrett himself claims that led to the 2014 season success.

We were winning because of the synergy between the passing game and the running game.

Jason parsed it as such:

Jason Garrett articulates clearly why they drafted Zeke and how the 2014 style of running game allows for a positive impact on both the offense and defense :

1) Helps QB by taking pressure off.
2) Helps WR's with favorable looks outside because of run defenses.
3) Possess the ball more.
4) More plays on offense.
5) Fewer plays on defense.
6) Allows defense to play at a higher level.
7) Pervasive impact on entire team.

He states "Similar to how we played a couple years ago when we ran the ball so effectively and I thought it had a positive impact on everyone throughout our team and we believe Zeke gives us a chance to do that".

This was from the presser, start time 4:42 and 5:20 specifically.

Zeke also helps the passing game because he is a natural pass catcher.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/video/2016/04/28/press-conference-after-picking-ezekiel-elliott

You realize Romo threw earlier and more often in games in 2014 than he did in 2013 right? It was late in games when his throwing decreased because we were winning those games.

This is irrefutable. It is matter of public record.

It also destroys your argument.

You realize that Murray had a higher percentage of his yards come in garbage time than did Mcfadden.

This is irrefutable. It is a matter of public record.

It also destroys your argument.

 

[percyhoward]

The limiting of pass attempts is obviously a result of the balance, that is my entire point!

You think we were only balanced in the second half of games?

 

[Idgit]

Nothing is confusing, effectively running the ball definitely assists the passing game in the case of the 2014 Cowboys.

Ask Garrett, he says this was the catalyst to the 2014 success.

It's definitely confusing, because you guys keep misrepresenting the argument and then saying you've got it.

There are situations where you run the ball and it helps the passing game. There always have been, and there always will be. Those are important plays. They get you into downs and distances to convert drives. They let you force the other team to burn time outs. They let you avoid taking risks in the passing game that can get you beat. It's a big part of every NFL offense.

But, with the exception of short yardage and goal line, you don't win more football games by being better at it than the other guys. Which means you can get the same benefit of the running game without devoting expensive resources to it. In a zero sum situation like the NFL draft, that matters a lot. If you're spending a premium pick on a RB, it had better be for something other than what he gives in in terms of rushes from scrimmage.