NFL Officiating Scandal

[CalPolyTechnique]

You are dodging the point. Yes, they test now after a major scandal that included Congressional Hearings. How enlightened of them.

When players started juicing it was patently obvioius and a major point of discussion. MLB wasn't "behind on testing", they didn't test at all and actively promoted the spectacle of a skinny LF like Sammy Sosa suddenly chasing the HR record. MLB spent years NOT testing because they were making billions of dollars off of it.

When it was really clear players were juicing, MLB willfully turned a blind eye because they were making money hand over fist. There is no debate about it, it wasn't being "behind on testing". But if Roger Goodell has a HOF Owner challenging his demands of 50 Million per year (plus a private jet) and he isn't going to whisper in the ears of people working for him?

Seriously?

You're helping yourself to hindsight.

Baseball at the time (circa early 2000s) did not have the internal penalty protocols in place to even suspend players first-time positive tests of performance-enhancing drugs in 2003

"Baseball management's drug policy prohibited the use of steroids without a valid prescription since 1991, but the enforceability of those rules was repeatedly questioned by the union, which did not reach a drug agreement until August 2002.

There were no penalties for a positive test in 2003 -- those were survey tests conducted to determine if it was necessary to impose mandatory random drug testing across the major leagues in 2004."

http://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=4264062

That's (the article link) is a proper retelling of the events.

You want to simply jump from "hey, that guy clearly looks like he's on steroids!" to "there's a MLB conspiracy," as if in reality the players' union, investigation, fact-finding, et cetera, didn't all factor into how this issue evolved.

 

[MarcusRock]

I don't like the ref conspiracy talk when it comes to Dallas because there is no winner and it is crazy to me. Do refs have horrible games and blow calls? Yes. Do I like refs? No. But in at least 3 games last year I was so happy that the other team was getting jobbed and we were getting breaks and I came here to read threads about how the refs are out to get us in the same game and no one could answer to the questions about the calls we were getting.. People will literally place what they want to in any situation to excuse our failures. I think Jerry made the fan base like this. It is what he does with JG yearly....injuries, suspensions, new players, new scheme, new coaches, etc to excuse things. Reality is it is just the team.

You'll have a hard time selling that common sense spiel. I mean look at this very thread title where I place counter-evidence in the middle of it and posters pass over it like a pigeon passing over lettuce to get to pizza on the ground. It's not just football either, it's all of society, especially if you look at the political sphere. But back to football, people actually want you to believe that the NFL, already embroiled in its own PR situation with that topic-that-shall-not-be-named, would blatantly target the team with the largest following in the world, mind you, in some sort of retaliation and risk a PR nightmare 1,000 times worse. As if the NFL doesn't have lawyers on staff or something to guide their every move. These people are even using logic (they think) to conclude this. Unreal. So when the emotion train gets rollin' all you can really do is throw pebbles at it from the side of the tracks because it's won't stop for anything.

 

[DogFace]

LOLOL. That was the question I asked YOU in the link below. So now conspiracy theorists want others to prove their Bigfoot/Aliens/Loch Ness Monster theories for them too? I knew you liked to parrot others' arguments, but now you parrot a question directed AT you asking for some (or any) kind of support for "could be" assertions? Hilarious. This is taking "no original thought" to a whole new level. Hahaha. Dang.

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/thi...issed-the-playoffs.394804/page-6#post-7828303

Then it should be simple to show I was wrong when I claimed the streak was unique. I’d never heard of a steak of no holds like that before. One that also slowed down the leader in sacks in the league at one time.

You’ve probably heard of other teams that went through streaks like that with no holds. So just share them with me and I’ll admit I was overreacting.

Or you can do what you normally do.

1. Insults over the internet- like a true ****y.
2. Deflect
3. Tattle to the mods that others are being meanies to you. There’s two confirmed tattles. Very manly!!

 

[CPanther95]

It's ridiculous to think that NFL HQ unilaterally decided to change the rules for the Super Bowl.

If they did anything different than the regular season, I guarantee they would have at least run it by the Rooneys and Maras first.

 

[DogFace]

You're referencing very specific plays (i.e. "Lawerence getting tackled...no flag...") because you're a Cowboys fan that watches every game with deep interest.

The point is every team can make claims to non-calls, league bias, phantom calls, et cetera, and even point to very specific plays that you aren't aware of because you don't watch the Buccaneer, Titans or Rams, with the same frequency or interest as you do the Cowboys.

When you realize this happens to every team you realize it's infinitely less likely there's a league wide bias against the Cowboys and much more likely there's just poor refereeing.

Simply post the comparable streak of no holds and I’ll admit I overreacted to the one on the Cowboys.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Knock off the personal attacks

 

[Kaiser]

You're helping yourself to hindsight.

How is it hindsight if it was the biggest topic of conversation among most of the baseball fans in the country?

 

[Kaiser]

Baseball at the time (circa early 2000s) did not have the internal penalty protocols in place to even suspend players first-time positive tests of performance-enhancing drugs in 2003

"Baseball management's drug policy prohibited the use of steroids without a valid prescription since 1991, but the enforceability of those rules was repeatedly questioned by the union, which did not reach a drug agreement until August 2002.

There were no penalties for a positive test in 2003 -- those were survey tests conducted to determine if it was necessary to impose mandatory random drug testing across the major leagues in 2004."

You are proving my point for me. The steroid era was in the 1990's and it wasn't an eyeball test of "Hey, that guy looks bigger". It was "Hey, since Babe Ruth set the HR record we have had one guy in 70 years challenge the 60 HR mark and now we have multiple guys sailing past it with ease. Some were skinny CF a few years ago, and Barry Bonds is now the first ML player in history to grow a full hat size in his 30's".

The MLB answer to that (as you quote above) was to wait 6 - 8 years to start testing for the Elephant in the room. That is exactly my point, they not only turned a blind eye - but in the case of the Sosa-McGuire HR race they promoted it heavily because they were making billions of dollars from it. Fans had been talking about it for almost a decade and the top levels of a major sport did exactly what was needed to keep the money rolling in.

Why would Goodell be any different when you see other actions where the NFL was wildly corrupt. Was the Ray Rice tape "lost" at NFL HQ? Did the laws of physics change between the NFL investigator clearing Ezekiel Elliott and his supsension coming down (in time for the Giants game)?

 

[Kaiser]

Two questions for you -

1 - Do you know/acknowlege that the change in judgement penalty calls was statistically impossible and it started the week Jerry challenged Goodell's contract?

Also @CalPolyTechnique, you haven't addressed this point.

Here is a link to the stats of judgement call penalities and the timeline that it dramatically changed the week Jerry challenged Goodell's contract:

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/timeline-of-goodells-contract-and-holding-penalties.391290/


Judgment Calls
Penalties for infractions involving official's judgment (off holding, DPI, def holding, unnecessary roughness, illegal block, OPI, illegal use of hands, roughing the passer, face mask, unsportsmanlike conduct, illegal contact, intentional grounding, taunting, horse collar tackle, ineligible downfield, blindside block, running into kicker, low block, leverage)

others
Penalties for infractions involving only space, time, and movement (false start, def offside, delay of game, neutral zone infraction, encroachment, illegal formation, offside on free kick, defense 12 on field, illegal shift, player out of bounds on punt, illegal motion, illegal touch kick)

Games 1-3
Cowboys: 22 total penalties
Judgment Calls 11 (3.67)
others 11 (3.67)

Cowboys' Opponents: 20 total penalties
Judgment Calls 11 (3.67)
others 9 (3.00)

Games 4-11 Cowboys: 43 total penalties
Judgment Calls 37 (4.63)
others 6 (0.75)

Cowboys' Opponents: 41 total penalties
Judgment Calls 19 (2.38)
others 22 (2.75)

Timeline -

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/timeline-of-goodells-contract-and-holding-penalties.391290/

 

[DogFace]

Also @CalPolyTechnique, you haven't addressed this point.

Here is a link to the stats of judgement call penalities and the timeline that it dramatically changed the week Jerry challenged Goodell's contract:

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/timeline-of-goodells-contract-and-holding-penalties.391290/


Judgment Calls
Penalties for infractions involving official's judgment (off holding, DPI, def holding, unnecessary roughness, illegal block, OPI, illegal use of hands, roughing the passer, face mask, unsportsmanlike conduct, illegal contact, intentional grounding, taunting, horse collar tackle, ineligible downfield, blindside block, running into kicker, low block, leverage)

others
Penalties for infractions involving only space, time, and movement (false start, def offside, delay of game, neutral zone infraction, encroachment, illegal formation, offside on free kick, defense 12 on field, illegal shift, player out of bounds on punt, illegal motion, illegal touch kick)

Games 1-3
Cowboys: 22 total penalties
Judgment Calls 11 (3.67)
others 11 (3.67)

Cowboys' Opponents: 20 total penalties
Judgment Calls 11 (3.67)
others 9 (3.00)

Games 4-11 Cowboys: 43 total penalties
Judgment Calls 37 (4.63)
others 6 (0.75)

Cowboys' Opponents: 41 total penalties
Judgment Calls 19 (2.38)
others 22 (2.75)

Timeline -

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/timeline-of-goodells-contract-and-holding-penalties.391290/

I wonder why he or the other two that are so offended by the suggestion that these stats are abnormal haven’t replied to that.

Didn’t they already have opportunities to respond back in November? They usually never let an anti ref debate slip by them. Wonder why that happened.

I genuinely doubt you’ll get much response. Just snarky insults that we are crazy for even suggesting there could possibly be any bias amongst refs.

 

[Kaiser]

I wonder why he or the other two that are so offended by the suggestion that these stats are abnormal haven’t replied to that.

Cal Poly is a great poster, we just have completely opposite viewpoints. He makes his case in a positve way, unlike the guy who say everyone is an emotional idiot (right before he cries about being bullied).

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

You are proving my point for me. The steroid era was in the 1990's and it wasn't an eyeball test of "Hey, that guy looks bigger". It was "Hey, since Babe Ruth set the HR record we have had one guy in 70 years challenge the 60 HR mark and now we have multiple guys sailing past it with ease. Some were skinny CF a few years ago, and Barry Bonds is now the first ML player in history to grow a full hat size in his 30's".

The MLB answer to that (as you quote above) was to wait 6 - 8 years to start testing for the Elephant in the room. That is exactly my point, they not only turned a blind eye - but in the case of the Sosa-McGuire HR race they promoted it heavily because they were making billions of dollars from it. Fans had been talking about it for almost a decade and the top levels of a major sport did exactly what was needed to keep the money rolling in.

Why would Goodell be any different when you see other actions where the NFL was wildly corrupt. Was the Ray Rice tape "lost" at NFL HQ? Did the laws of physics change between the NFL investigator clearing Ezekiel Elliott and his supsension coming down (in time for the Giants game)?

Proving your point, lol?

If there was any "conspiring" it was the with Players' Union which served as a roadblock preventing and agreeing to scheduled testing for years. This was occurring while roided up players were inflating their numbers and striking huge contacts that raised the tide for everyone else (i.e. lesser players).

Thinking the league could just unilaterally envoke new rules/penalties on players belonging to the stongest union in sports is at best a huge oversight.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Also @CalPolyTechnique, you haven't addressed this point.

Here is a link to the stats of judgement call penalities and the timeline that it dramatically changed the week Jerry challenged Goodell's contract:

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/timeline-of-goodells-contract-and-holding-penalties.391290/


Judgment Calls
Penalties for infractions involving official's judgment (off holding, DPI, def holding, unnecessary roughness, illegal block, OPI, illegal use of hands, roughing the passer, face mask, unsportsmanlike conduct, illegal contact, intentional grounding, taunting, horse collar tackle, ineligible downfield, blindside block, running into kicker, low block, leverage)

others
Penalties for infractions involving only space, time, and movement (false start, def offside, delay of game, neutral zone infraction, encroachment, illegal formation, offside on free kick, defense 12 on field, illegal shift, player out of bounds on punt, illegal motion, illegal touch kick)

Games 1-3
Cowboys: 22 total penalties
Judgment Calls 11 (3.67)
others 11 (3.67)

Cowboys' Opponents: 20 total penalties
Judgment Calls 11 (3.67)
others 9 (3.00)

Games 4-11 Cowboys: 43 total penalties
Judgment Calls 37 (4.63)
others 6 (0.75)

Cowboys' Opponents: 41 total penalties
Judgment Calls 19 (2.38)
others 22 (2.75)

Timeline -

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/timeline-of-goodells-contract-and-holding-penalties.391290/

The earliest reference to Jones contesting Goodell's contract was the first week of November, a full 4 games had transpired since the Cardinals game. That fact alone takes the steam out of your theory.https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/sports/football/jerry-jones-roger-goodell-nfl.html?_r=0

 

[McKDaddy]

The earliest reference to Jones contesting Goodell's contract was the first week of November, a full four games had transpired since the Cardinals game. That fact alone takes the steam out of your theory.https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/sports/football/jerry-jones-roger-goodell-nfl.html?_r=0

You don't think Goodell knew before it became public ....

 

[Kaiser]

Thinking the league could just unilaterally envoke new rules/penalties on players belonging to the stongest union in sports is at best a huge oversight.

So it took the meek, timid Billionaire owners TEN YEARS to address the problem because of those big meanies in the players union? That is proving my point. The hands of MLBPA aren't clean either, but MLB didn't even begin an effort for years - which is exactly my point. Look at issues like the Buscones, it wasn't ten years for MLB to move.

 

[Kaiser]

The earliest reference to Jones contesting Goodell's contract was the first week of November, a full 4 games had transpired since the Cardinals game. That fact alone takes the steam out of your theory.https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/sports/football/jerry-jones-roger-goodell-nfl.html?_r=0

That's completely false, I'll copy three different links below that show you are wrong. Now try again, address the stats of the penalities.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...-impeding-roger-goodell-contract-negotiations

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...r-goodell-contract-talks-wants-big-reduction/

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/09/17/jerry-jones-roger-goodell-contract-extension

 

[OmerV]

heard that too. Sheftter even said that the Clement and Ertz TD's would not have counted under the "old rule".

I don't see how with Ertz. 3 steps fully upright and with full possession of the ball. and only went down because he was hit in the knees. that's a TD under any version of the rule

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

So it took the meek, timid Billionaire owners TEN YEARS to address the problem because of those big meanies in the players union? That is proving my point. The hands of MLBPA aren't clean either, but MLB didn't even begin an effort for years - which is exactly my point. Look at issues like the Buscones, it wasn't ten years for MLB to move.

Where are you now getting ten years from?

This is what I'm talking about in terms of helping yourself to hindsight. You're basically arguing "oh, well clearly they knew everyone was juicing and they just sat around did nothing...Conspiracy!!!"

That's not how it works in realtime. There are so many factors that go into a sea change including just acknowledging that there is a problem, fact-finding, collecting evidence, modifying the CBA, negotiating with the MLBPA, et cetera.

 

[LocimusPrime]

Got a little rough in here.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Can we go back to square 1 here regarding the OP's post. I haven't read through the entire thread but has anyone provided a link of the actual clip?

Or, are we just treating to OP's account and interpretation like fact?