When Dak sucks this year, don't blame him

kskboys said:
Possibly, but you're taking for granted too many unknowns in saying that. We've almost completely redone our WR corps.

And basically, our WR group was not that good to begin w/, even w/ Dez.
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I'm looking at all the other "bad" wr groups in the NFL with the same "unknowns", hopes , and dreams. This is one of the least accomplished groups in the NFL. Thats just a fact. This is the first year I can remember that Dallas will not have a WR that opposing teams with have to worry about. At least Dez could kill you in the red zone with a decent throw.

Dak has his work cut out for him.
 
atlantacowboy said:
I'm looking at all the other "bad" wr groups in the NFL with the same "unknowns", hopes , and dreams. This is one of the least accomplished groups in the NFL. Thats just a fact. This is the first year I can remember that Dallas will not have a WR that opposing teams with have to worry about. At least Dez could kill you in the red zone with a decent throw.
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Oh, absolutely. Least accomplished. However, we have no idea how they'll perform. And being the least accomplished, they are also the most talented group we've had in a long time. So, they could easily be much better, and they could easily be much worse. All I'm saying is that we don't know at present.
 
kskboys said:
Oh, absolutely. Least accomplished. However, we have no idea how they'll perform. And being the least accomplished, they are also the most talented group we've had in a long time. So, they could easily be much better, and they could easily be much worse. All I'm saying is that we don't know at present.
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I hope they are better than they look on paper or this is going to be long year for Zeke and Dak.
 
atlantacowboy said:
I hope they are better than they look on paper or this is going to be long year for Zeke and Dak.
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If the o-line returns to form, Dak should return to 2016 form. The talent level in the NFL is very close, it's not like other teams have All Pros at every receiver spot, the worst receiving corps in the NFL is still pretty good. Given time, you'd have to be a really bad quarterback to not have some success, and I think we've seen enough of Dak to know that given time, he can put up good numbers and win a good amount of games.

Enough to make a deep playoff run? Maybe, we'll have to wait and see, but I'm thinking they will surprise a lot of folks...
 
LACowboysFan1 said:
If the o-line returns to form, Dak should return to 2016 form. The talent level in the NFL is very close, it's not like other teams have All Pros at every receiver spot, the worst receiving corps in the NFL is still pretty good. Given time, you'd have to be a really bad quarterback to not have some success, and I think we've seen enough of Dak to know that given time, he can put up good numbers and win a good amount of games.

Enough to make a deep playoff run? Maybe, we'll have to wait and see, but I'm thinking they will surprise a lot of folks...
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You are making an argument for the WR position not really mattering........... I would agree if Romo or a passer of his qaulity was behind center. We've seen Romo make guys like Miles Austin and Laurent Robinson look like pro bowlers. Dak has not proven to be in that category. You can chalk up his rookie season to NFL defenses having no film on him since he basically played with an identical wr core in 2016 and 2017. The OL was bad at one spot last year which was back-up tackle and it killed the offense. But you can't have all-pros at every spot.
 
jay94 said:
We easily have a bottom five receiving core in the league at the moment. I will say, while Dak has been good he has been overrated, I think by half the fan base that for some reason had a reason to target and bash on Romo were quick to come to the Dak love. Terrance Williams is a no 4 receiver on most teams, Hurns can be an adequate two, and Beasley only fills certain route tree like Bryant, oh the biggest concern we have no number 1 and Witten is adequate at best at TE at his age.
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I was a big fan of Romo but have no reason to bash Dak for the job he is doing. Dak is a young QB and is still developing I would think Cowboys Nation would back and support the young QB. To me none of this is about Romo, he does not play on this team or any team. I think too often fans are more concerned with their own agenda than that of the team. When Romo took over I supported and backed him through the ups and down, I accepted as an UDFA he would need to learn and to develop it comes with the job. I give the same to Dak
 
atlantacowboy said:
You are making an argument for the WR position not really mattering.
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No, I'm saying that the receivers have to have talent, you don't get to be on an NFL roster if you don't have talent, but even if the receivers aren't all, or mostly, top 10, then they are still pretty good. And as you said, can't have all pros at every spot, the receivers may be good enough...
 
LACowboysFan1 said:
No, I'm saying that the receivers have to have talent, you don't get to be on an NFL roster if you don't have talent, but even if the receivers aren't all, or mostly, top 10, then they are still pretty good. And as you said, can't have all pros at every spot, the receivers may be good enough...
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Talent at the NFL level is a completely different animal than talent at the college level. No, not every WR on a roster has the talent to play in the NFL. Sam Hurd, for instance. Had great hands, ran great routes, but simply did not possess the burst and lateral agility to separate. TWill caught a truckload of passes in college.
 
LACowboysFan1 said:
No, I'm saying that the receivers have to have talent, you don't get to be on an NFL roster if you don't have talent, but even if the receivers aren't all, or mostly, top 10, then they are still pretty good. And as you said, can't have all pros at every spot, the receivers may be good enough...
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Okay. All of these guys are amazing athletes........compared to us. But not compared to each other. The real question is how much better or worse is our WR group compared to the rest of the league.

I could be wrong but I follow the whole league as much as the cowboys, and the OL is really the only area where we are demonstrably better than anyone else. Our WR is among the worst on paper. It will be interesting to see how this balances out. I expect teams to man-up on our WRs and load the box to stop Zeke. If we have anyone decent at WR, Dak should have some open jersey's down field.
 
atlantacowboy said:
Look good on paper compared to who?
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Jets, Jags, Panthers, Seahawks, Commanders and Ravens have either a bunch of no-names, unprovens and hope-they-get-healthy/stay-healthy players. None of those have more than 1 better than average receiver. And the Bears are hoping Kevin White finally lives up to his pre-draft hype, plus Allen Robinson has to recover from injury.

Not to say the Dallas receivers are top-10, but I don't see them as being "bottom of the league".

But to me "on paper" means little, what counts is on the field performance, speculating as to how good the receivers will be before games is interesting but doesn't win SBs...
 
kskboys said:
Talent at the NFL level is a completely different animal than talent at the college level. No, not every WR on a roster has the talent to play in the NFL. Sam Hurd, for instance. Had great hands, ran great routes, but simply did not possess the burst and lateral agility to separate. TWill caught a truckload of passes in college.
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Hurd stuck in the NFL for 6 years, T. Will has been on the Cowboys for 5 and signed a 4 year extension a year ago. What do you call "having the talent to play in the NFL"? 10 years and 5 Pro Bowls? In my opinion if a receiver sticks around for at least 4 years he has the talent to "play" in the NFL, doesn't mean he's top notch but if he didn't have the talent he'd been cut after a year or two....
 
The 2016 Cowboys were 23rd in the league in receiving. Dez had less than 800 yards in catches and only 8 tds.

Yet the team went 13-3.

Just saying that IF the receiving corps isn't top notch, all is not lost...
 
Why do you think 2016 is a better comparison? Defecnses adjusted to us in 2017. Even when Tyron was playing the offense wasn't clicking very often. I think this offense is closer to what we saw in 2017 than in 2016 until I see otherwise.
 
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LACowboysFan1 said:
Jets, Jags, Panthers, Seahawks, Commanders and Ravens have either a bunch of no-names, unprovens and hope-they-get-healthy/stay-healthy players. None of those have more than 1 better than average receiver. And the Bears are hoping Kevin White finally lives up to his pre-draft hype, plus Allen Robinson has to recover from injury.

Not to say the Dallas receivers are top-10, but I don't see them as being "bottom of the league".

But to me "on paper" means little, what counts is on the field performance, speculating as to how good the receivers will be before games is interesting but doesn't win SBs...
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The Ravens , Seahawks, and Commanders have much better WR cores than we do right now. Our best WR right now is a guy that even J-Ville didn't want to resign.
 
atlantacowboy said:
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The Ravens , Seahawks, and Commanders have much better WR cores than we do right now. Our best WR right now is a guy that even J-Ville didn't want to resign.
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Really? Well let's look at the Seahawks - Corps: Doug Baldwin, Tyler Lockett, Jaron Brown.

Baldwin? Hasn't gotten more than 800 yards but once in the last 4 years. Never gotten more than 5 tds the last 4 years. His stats are pretty close to T. Williams, who a lot of folks here think isn't a worthwhile receiver, but Baldwin does the same and is a top receiver?
Lockett? His best year, last year of 3, he had 664 yds and 6 tds. Yeah he's great, right?
Brown? 5 years in the league, a TOTAL of 1,177 yards and 9 tds, or about 235 yards and 1 td a YEAR.

Commanders?
Corps: Jamison Crowder, Josh Doctson, Paul Richardson

How many of those 3 are top notch NFL receivers?
Crowder averages 746 yds/4tds, Doctson 284/3 and Richardson 325/2.

I'd be willing to say Dallas is not a lot better than those teams, but worse? Don't think so...
 
atlantacowboy said:
I'm looking at all the other "bad" wr groups in the NFL with the same "unknowns", hopes , and dreams. This is one of the least accomplished groups in the NFL. Thats just a fact. This is the first year I can remember that Dallas will not have a WR that opposing teams with have to worry about. At least Dez could kill you in the red zone with a decent throw.

Dak has his work cut out for him.
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Obviously our team as a whole is no where near as bad, but the days of Chad Hutchinson through Vinny Testaverde and most of those years not having a #1 feels very similar to our receivers now.
 
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