Zeke or Barkley? Who was the better prospect

[CPanther95]

Ouch. No respect for Johnson or Bell? Arguably the two best backs in this league.....

If we're just talking prospects out of college, they wouldn't rank up with those guys. Bell was a 2nd rounder and the 2nd RB taken - Johnson was a 3rd rounder and the 7th RB taken.

 

[beware_d-ware]

As others have said, I think the difference is that Ohio State Zeke was running behind a line of some absolute freaking hogs, while Barkley had a really mediocre OL in front of him. I mean, just look at that Sugar Bowl he had against Alabama. Alabama had eight guys on that front seven that ultimately went in the first 2 rounds of the draft, and Ohio State pounded the crap out of them.

Barkley likes to bounce it, but I don't think it's as big of an issue as some are making it. Part of it's because he could - he was a freaking 99th percentile NFL athlete stuck up against college players, - and part of it is that he was The Guy for Penn State's offense, and he pretty much knew it was all up to him to make plays. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he's a much better inside runner in the NFL than people are expecting.

Anyway, Zeke and Barkley were both blue-chip studs as prospects, and it's tough to sort between them. With Barkley, what you see is what you get - an 99th% athlete who's drawn comparisons to a 230 pound Barry Sanders and Marshall Faulk. Zeke is a little different, because he wins in ways that aren't as easily quantifiable as a 4.40 40 or a 41" vertical jump. As Brett Kollmann said "he's not elite in any one area, except maybe strength". But whereas Barkley constantly tried to use his athleticism to hit home runs, Zeke's goal is to get positive yardage on every play, and he gets there through a combination of vision, power, smarts, and endurance that don't show up on a Combine drill.

Watch the end of the second Washington game, where Zeke ultimately took 33 carries. Start at 1:56.



We were holding a one-score lead and looking to burn clock to put the game away. Zeke was at ~25 touches and was starting to gas out - he had noticeably lost a step, but the defense had too. And he was STILL banging away on those guys - hitting cutbacks, dragging tacklers, and just creating positive play after positive play. There was one play in there at 2:24 where the Cowboys wanted to run a left-side stretch, but the NT jumped the play, slashed inside and put Frederick on skates. Zeke's looking at the edge (as RBs are coached to do on zone runs), but once he sees #71's big butt coming at him, he immediately cuts back into the hole the NT had left and gets 4 yards. This guy's on his 30th carry, and even when you blow up the play, he's still improvising for positive yardage. How do you stop him?

Cause of Zeke's dominant 4th quarter rushing, we were able to put that game away and get the W. That's how he wins you football games.

We'll see what Barkley's got in him - I'm seriously expecting a Kamara type impact as a rookie, and maybe a Todd Gurley kind of player long term (that's personally my comp for him). But I'm more than happy with Zeke.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Ouch. No respect for Johnson or Bell? Arguably the two best backs in this league.....

No these are prospect rankings from the past four years. Fournette isnt close to top 4 RB in NFL for me

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

You’re forgetting Cook. IMO he’s better than Fournette at this point.

I had Fournette higher than Cook as prosepcts. Cook had a myriad of injuries before declaring and is high cut, so I thought he'd have an injury plagued career.

Four months after he got drafted he tears his ACL.

 

[northerncowboynation]

coming out of college?

It doesn't matter. Zeke has done it at the NFL level, Barkley hasn't

 

[CouchCoach]

If we're just talking prospects out of college, they wouldn't rank up with those guys. Bell was a 2nd rounder and the 2nd RB taken - Johnson was a 3rd rounder and the 7th RB taken.

Yep, the comparison is between the 2nd pick and the 4th pick, sure as hell an anomaly in today's NFL. I think both will prove worthy of their draft position as long as they don't get injured.

I am just glad that RB's became part of the plan again instead of arena ball without walls.

As far as Barkley, I see him as a Fred Taylor kind of back, it's not as much about carries as touches. I thought that's what we were getting with Zeke.

 

[CouchCoach]

It doesn't matter. Zeke has done it at the NFL level, Barkley hasn't

But the question was the better prospect coming out of college, not now.

 

[CPanther95]

Yep, the comparison is between the 2nd pick and the 4th pick, sure as hell an anomaly in today's NFL. I think both will prove worthy of their draft position as long as they don't get injured.

I am just glad that RB's became part of the plan again instead of arena ball without walls.

As far as Barkley, I see him as a Fred Taylor kind of back, it's not as much about carries as touches. I thought that's what we were getting with Zeke.

Now, if we could just get resurgence in the importance of FBs, I'll be happy.

 

[northerncowboynation]

Zeke is a better NFL prospect,He can get the dirty yards and most of the yards in the NFL is dirty yards.Barkley is a better pass catcher though.

Zeke is a "proven" RB @ the NFL level Barkley is not. It's OUR team that has set the bar high for RB's for years. TD, ES. If Zeke can stay relatively healthy for 10 years he will be in the same conversation as those two all time greats. Heck, we don't even talk bout Calvin Hill, Duane Thomas or Marion Barber. Zeke is the best all around. When Barkley proves he can block like Zeke, catch like Zeke, take it to the house and pound out hard yards at RB in the NFL then we can have the conversation

 

[northerncowboynation]

But the question was the better prospect coming out of college, not now.

Who knows? They played on different teams, versus different competition, probably different offensive schemes and different O-lines. I suppose it's something to talk about off season

 

[beware_d-ware]

I'd be happy with either one and you can toss
Gurley in as well.

Hard to compare because Elliott played on a better team and better offense but he was a complete back with Meyer saying he was the best RB without the ball he'd ever coached, that's high praise. It was hard for defense to key on Elliott because of the other parts of the offense but other than TE, Penn St. only had Barkley.

I watched Barkley play quite a bit and he's a freak. Both Elliott and Gurley were hurdlers so they come by that athleticism honestly and can do things most other backs can't do but Barkley's balance and agility for his size is mind boggling.

I'd take either one but throw in the person side of it and give me Barkley. He was more mature at 16 than Elliott was at 21.

As to which will be better in the NFL, we'll have to wait and see but Elliott got to go to a team with an OL and Barkley gets to go to a team with the best receiving corps in the league and I would bet Barkley's OC will get the ball in his hands via the pass more than the Cowboys did with Elliott. In fact, I am predicting that little Mr. Hates Kicking Nets is going to have a meltdown on the sideline at least once because they got Barkley to lean on and run the offense through him, not through the WR.

Good breakdown.

Barkley vs Iowa is one of the greatest RB tapes I've seen, he strapped up for 40 touches that game and turned it into 300+ yards. And the whole time, he was just destroying people with athleticism that looked like it was from another dimension. I remember one play where Josey Jewell read the play perfectly and shot the gap, and right as he was about to grab Barkley, Saquon just teleports two holes over on a jump cut and turns it into 20 yards. There was another where he hurdled a dude, another guy comes flying in and gives him a shot to the ribs in midair, and Barkley still lands on 2 feet and keeps running. That kind of balance and coordination is just on another level. I've seen lots of backs hurdle defenders, but I can't remember any of them who were able to land it and keep running.

He might be the best athlete to come out at the position in the last 10 years, and like you said, he's not just a big and fast guy, he comes across that athleticism honestly and in every facet of his game.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I’d argue none are in as good of situation behind the best rushing OL in NFL.

He should be doing 2,000 yards behind this OL.

I’d take Barkley and Gurley for sure over Elliott.

I’m tickled pink to have a talented RB like Elliott. I wish our QB had his talent level.

I agree. For sure Gurley. Zeke and the immaturity factors in. Zeke was known in college for taking a lot of hits. Lowering his head instead of making the move.

 

[CowboyRoy]

As others have said, I think the difference is that Ohio State Zeke was running behind a line of some absolute freaking hogs, while Barkley had a really mediocre OL in front of him. I mean, just look at that Sugar Bowl he had against Alabama. Alabama had eight guys on that front seven that ultimately went in the first 2 rounds of the draft, and Ohio State pounded the crap out of them.

Barkley likes to bounce it, but I don't think it's as big of an issue as some are making it. Part of it's because he could - he was a freaking 99th percentile NFL athlete stuck up against college players, - and part of it is that he was The Guy for Penn State's offense, and he pretty much knew it was all up to him to make plays. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he's a much better inside runner in the NFL than people are expecting.

Anyway, Zeke and Barkley were both blue-chip studs as prospects, and it's tough to sort between them. With Barkley, what you see is what you get - an 99th% athlete who's drawn comparisons to a 230 pound Barry Sanders and Marshall Faulk. Zeke is a little different, because he wins in ways that aren't as easily quantifiable as a 4.40 40 or a 41" vertical jump. As Brett Kollmann said "he's not elite in any one area, except maybe strength". But whereas Barkley constantly tried to use his athleticism to hit home runs, Zeke's goal is to get positive yardage on every play, and he gets there through a combination of vision, power, smarts, and endurance that don't show up on a Combine drill.

Watch the end of the second Washington game, where Zeke ultimately took 33 carries. Start at 1:56.



We were holding a one-score lead and looking to burn clock to put the game away. Zeke was at ~25 touches and was starting to gas out - he had noticeably lost a step, but the defense had too. And he was STILL banging away on those guys - hitting cutbacks, dragging tacklers, and just creating positive play after positive play. There was one play in there at 2:24 where the Cowboys wanted to run a left-side stretch, but the NT jumped the play, slashed inside and put Frederick on skates. Zeke's looking at the edge (as RBs are coached to do on zone runs), but once he sees #71's big butt coming at him, he immediately cuts back into the hole the NT had left and gets 4 yards. This guy's on his 30th carry, and even when you blow up the play, he's still improvising for positive yardage. How do you stop him?

Cause of Zeke's dominant 4th quarter rushing, we were able to put that game away and get the W. That's how he wins you football games.

We'll see what Barkley's got in him - I'm seriously expecting a Kamara type impact as a rookie, and maybe a Todd Gurley kind of player long term (that's personally my comp for him). But I'm more than happy with Zeke.

Now there is a guy that has done his work. Agree on everything. Nicely done.

 

[Starforever]

Imagine Barry Sanders behind that line

/ducks for cover

Lobs frag grenade over barrier, lol.

 

[Starforever]

Yep!
Some of the greatest RB’s in NFL history didn’t play behind great OL or good teams for at least part of their careers.

Give me a list of these great backs with no lines.

 

[CouchCoach]

Now, if we could just get resurgence in the importance of FBs, I'll be happy.

Might be asking too much but there are some fine RB's, if they can stay healthy. I did a little research on some stats several years back and in two back to back years, none of the top 10 RB's played in all 16 games, not one of them. Pays to have a really good back up RB. As the Cards and Vikes found out last year.

I have always liked watching RB styles and the different ways they attack but I do not believe I have ever seen any back that can do what Bell does. It is as if everything freezes and then starts moving again only he has picked up a step. That is a prime example of innate ability and cannot be taught.

 

[CouchCoach]

Give me a list of these great backs with no lines.

He didn't say no lines, he said great ones. Sanders and Sweetness to name two but more teams played with a FB back then too and TE was more of a blocking gig.

Then there's the debate, who makes who, the RB or the OL?

 

[beware_d-ware]

I have always liked watching RB styles and the different ways they attack but I do not believe I have ever seen any back that can do what Bell does. It is as if everything freezes and then starts moving again only he has picked up a step. That is a prime example of innate ability and cannot be taught.

Bell is a special one. He literally just stands there behind his offensive line, and when a hole opens up, he just bursts through it. It's incredible.

As great as Bell is though, his owes his offensive line a lot of credit because that style would get him killed behind 80% of the lines in the league. He needs the Steelers, and the Steelers need him.

 

[CouchCoach]

Bell is a special one. He literally just stands there behind his offensive line, and when a hole opens up, he just bursts through it. It's incredible.

As great as Bell is though, his owes his offensive line a lot of credit because that style would get him killed behind 80% of the lines in the league. He needs the Steelers, and the Steelers need him.

Agree, they are a fit. And his OL seems to know he's just waiting so they'll stay with their block.

That's the real beauty of the game to me, that special melding of OL and RB when they seem to read each others thoughts and watching a good back set up his blocks really fires me up, even if I don't like the team.

I hated the Niners back in the day but watching Craig and then Watters set up their blocks and make their move was pure poetry, OL/RB synergy at work.. And watching Bettis tiptoe like a ballerina was great. The man had tiny little feets!

And while he wasn't ever considered an elite back, I really liked to watch Michael Pittman run. He was the only one I have seen run as hard as Terrell Davis and Skittles.

 

[Keithfansince5]

Zeke is very good but I haven't been impressed with his receiving skills. Now how much of that is the coaching staff...

How so? Is he dropping passes thrown to him? If so, when? If you mean, he is not being thrown the ball enough, I agree with you. However, that is not on Zeke. He could get 1,000 yards receiving if Dallas threw him the ball enough. He is a monster.