Cooper Rush

[OmerV]

Gotcha, Dak insecurity vs. hating on Coop.

I suppose you could define it that way. Ultimately there are always posters that find whatever excused they can to demean or promote players, even if there isn't any logic to it.

 

[Jarv]

See, I knew you would say that, and even though I anticipated it, and explained the point and that I was not saying Dake was on the level of those guys, you still either completely missed it, or chose to ignore it for the sake of fabricating a point that doesn't address what I said.

But lets examine this "check down king" argument by looking at yards per catch of each of the QBs I mentioned in their 2nd year starting.

Brees - 10.3 ypc
Favre - 10.4 ypc
Montana - 10.2 ypc
Prescott - 10.8 ypc

Again, I'll repeat that I'm not saying Dak is the same quality player as those guys (read slowly this time and see if you can grasp that), I'm only pointing out you can't define and condemn Dak based on year 2 as the starter.

Yards per attempt last year, Dak was at 6.78, which ranked him 20th. For a comparison, Brees was at 8.09 ranking him 1st.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player?stat=passing&sort=yardsPerPassAttempt&redirected=true

 

[Jarv]

I suppose you could define it that way. Ultimately there are always posters that find whatever excused they can to demean or promote players, even if there isn't any logic to it.

Agreed, we have are eggs in Dak's basket and I hope he plays like he did year 1. Coop playing well (in pre-season) is not a knock on Dak...IMHO.

 

[Undefeated]

Dak Prescott isn't even in the same Universe as Montana,Brees,and Favre. He is a product of a Great Offline and HB and a check-down stat king so you keep the numbers and stats and I'll trust my eye's when it comes to all conclusions on the talents of Dak which are C grade to say the least....

Not many QB's would do good with Chaz at LT and while Dak isnt near the top in yards per attempt, he was still ranked 2nd best QB when throwing 16+ air yards

 

[America's Cowboy]

Gotcha, Dak insecurity vs. hating on Coop.

Not hating on Cooper. He's just nothing more than a backup type of QB. Plus, in another year, Mike White definitely will overtake Cooper Rush as the #1 backup if all goes according to plan.

 

[MarcusRock]

I like Cooper rush and I don't think any of our other back up QBs are beating him out for the #2 spot, and maybe he could be something more in the future but I think it is a little premature to say better than Dak.
Saying that, I do like Cooper's medium to deep throws, lots of touch on the ball but I think we need to see more zip throws from him. Will not survive if you can't hit those slants and crossover patterns with in the midst of coverage

I agree. This is why, although I like Rush, I'm pretty sure he would get killed in a real game. The Jets also had a preseason superhero QB for a few years who likewise had a knack for the deep ball. When he was finally inserted into a real game because of injuries, it was the last I ever heard of that guy. Like a lot of Fantasy Football nerds, people love the deep ball and will overrate based on that, but you get 2 or 3 of those max per game and have to do those other things just as well to be a good NFL QB.

 

[G2]

I'm claiming that Rush is a more ACCURATE QB than Dak is which by the way isn't major considering how poor Dak's accuracy is....Just ask David Carr.....

Based on what?

 

[Jarv]

Not hating on Cooper. He's just nothing more than a backup type of QB. Plus, in another year, Mike White definitely will overtake Cooper Rush as the #1 backup if all goes according to plan.

Not sure about White, arm and accuracy is great, pocket awareness and DR (defensive reads) seem slow. Would be nice to have Coops brain in Whites body. Or, if strength training and better mechanics could improve Coops throwing ability. Watching them both in pre-season should be fun.

 

[gimmesix]

How has he been in camp? I don’t live in the area and I have seen a few clips of him throwing some passes with great touch. Anxious to see his development from year one to year two

The indication I get is that he's throwing better than Dak, but there could be multiple reasons for that, such as who he is throwing against, in camp. I haven't seen anything to indicate he's taken a step back, but I don't think we'll know if he's taken a step forward until we see him in the games.

 

[Jarv]

Not many QB's would do good with Chaz at LT and while Dak isnt near the top in yards per attempt, he was still ranked 2nd best QB when throwing 16+ air yards

Dak did well with Chaz at LT in 2016. Think he started and played well in 2 games.

 

[G2]

From what I've seen Rush is Moore caliber.

 

[G2]

Dak did well with Chaz at LT in 2016. Think he started and played well in 2 games.

There was more going on than just the LT.

 

[OmerV]

Yards per attempt last year, Dak was at 6.78, which ranked him 20th. For a comparison, Brees was at 8.09 ranking him 1st.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player?stat=passing&sort=yardsPerPassAttempt&redirected=true

You missed my point too, although I've made it very clear. I was comparing Dak to Brees and others at the same points in their careers to show that year 2 is not a defining year in a QB's career. You, on the other hand, are comparing a young and developing QB to a HOF level veteran, however if you look at that same HOF level veteran in his 2nd season his yards per attempt was 6.2. Again (and again and again and again), I'm not saying Dak is at that level, I'm simply talking about there being a lot of room for growth and improvement after year 2, so it makes no sense to condemn Dak at this point.

 

[Jarv]

You missed my point too, although I've made it very clear. I was comparing Dak to Brees and others at the same points in their careers to show that year 2 is not a defining year in a QB's career. You are comparing a young and developing QB to a HOF level veteran, however if you look at that same HOF level veteran in his 2nd season his yards per attempt was 6.2. Again (and again and again and again), I'm not saying Dak is at that level, I'm simply talking about there is still a lot of room for growth and improvement after year 2, so it makes no sense to condemn Dak at this point.

Well played sir, you make a fair point!

 

[OmerV]

From what I've seen Rush is Moore caliber.

Rush doesn't have a strong arm, but it's better than Moore, and at least he can see over the steering wheel when he drives.

 

[kskboys]

Rush doesn't have a strong arm, but it's better than Moore, and at least he can see over the steering wheel when he drives.

It appears to me to be worse.

I'm going to watch this kid closely this preseason and try like hades to see what you guys see in him. I know that Rush is absolutely loaded w/ instincts, and unequivocally knows how to play the game. However, all I see from him are floaters. He appears to seriously have lollipop arm strength as the scouts called it.

So, Omer, why do you think Rush has a better arm than Moore? Just the eye test?

 

[erod]

You missed my point too, although I've made it very clear. I was comparing Dak to Brees and others at the same points in their careers to show that year 2 is not a defining year in a QB's career. You, on the other hand, are comparing a young and developing QB to a HOF level veteran, however if you look at that same HOF level veteran in his 2nd season his yards per attempt was 6.2. Again (and again and again and again), I'm not saying Dak is at that level, I'm simply talking about there being a lot of room for growth and improvement after year 2, so it makes no sense to condemn Dak at this point.

That's always a semi-false argument though.

Dak played with an almost perfect offense his first year and a half. Brees did not. Virtually no young QB has ever. Dak had the best situation his rookie year of any rookie QB in the history of the NFL.

Troy played with filth his rookie season. Same for Peyton Manning or any rookie QB who's thrust into a starting role right away. Dak walked into the best offensive personnel the NFL had to offer.

So you can't compare "the first two years" like that. There's far more to it than just inexperience involved.

 

[erod]

It appears to me to be worse.

I'm going to watch this kid closely this preseason and try like hades to see what you guys see in him. I know that Rush is absolutely loaded w/ instincts, and unequivocally knows how to play the game. However, all I see from him are floaters. He appears to seriously have lollipop arm strength as the scouts called it.

So, Omer, why do you think Rush has a better arm than Moore? Just the eye test?

Rush doesn't have a great arm. Neither does Dak, who throws some ugly duckling wobblers frequently.

 

[G2]

That's always a semi-false argument though.

Dak played with an almost perfect offense his first year and a half. Brees did not. Virtually no young QB has ever. Dak had the best situation his rookie year of any rookie QB in the history of the NFL.

Troy played with filth his rookie season. Same for Peyton Manning or any rookie QB who's thrust into a starting role right away. Dak walked into the best offensive personnel the NFL had to offer.

So you can't compare "the first two years" like that. There's far more to it than just inexperience involved.

It's far more accurate than comparing 2 seasons to an entire career which is what the vast majority of Dak haters do.

And our offense was not almost perfect, that's ridiculous.

 

[erod]

It's far more accurate than comparing 2 seasons to an entire career which is what the vast majority of Dak haters do.

And our offense was not almost perfect, that's ridiculous.

Best offensive line in the NFL, best running back, Hall of Fame tight end, top-flight receiver, plus Cole Beasley.

Name me an NFL rookie who ever inherited that as a starter. Nobody.

For me, I'm not comparing him to anyone. I"m TOTALLY fine with him as the quarterback in multiple ways. I just need to see accurate throws from the pocket consistently that aren't dump-offs.

That truly is it. That's the only thing. I haven't seen it yet, and I'm concerned we never will. I'm begging him to prove otherwise.

This team will win some games with running the ball. It might win some with what looks like an improved defense. But at some point, your quarterback has to win big games with his arm alone. Period.