The Case Against an Earl Thomas Trade

[gjkoeppen]

Your "case" has been exceptionally weak.

If he's "proven" to you that he's a "me me me type player", that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But that's all it is. Nobody else sees him that way. And his own teammates have said otherwise on record.

And you keep wanting to make dismissive staments about fans. "Fans trying to play GM", "fans" voting players you deem as unworthy into Pro Bowls. Are you aware that you're also a fan?

Yes I'm a fan and I don't feed into that bogus game of voting for players for the Pro Bowl. And I'm not the only person who thinks Thomas is a me me me guy. Many of the talking heads on TV have said that he's being a me me me guy. They say the proof is if Seattle pays him what he wants then he'll stay otherwise trade him. Players who aren't a me me me guy go in play like heck so the whole league see it and sees that he's a team player and not a me me me guy and then other teams will bid for him as a free agent. Now every year the former players and former GM's on sports shows have a list of players that should have been voted on the Pro Bowl and question some of the one who did make it. Why - because fans get to vote.
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[DiResta]

sure would be nice to have a young guy with a nose for the ball like Xavier learn from one of the best
kinda like having Lee as a coach or Witten as a coach or even Romo
they immediately understand what the other team is trying to do, Dallas hasnt had that in the secondary in forever

 

[Sydla]

Yes I'm a fan and I don't feed into that bogus game of voting for players for the Pro Bowl. And I'm not the only person who thinks Thomas is a me me me guy. Many of the talking heads on TV have said that he's being a me me me guy. They say the proof is if Seattle pays him what he wants then he'll stay otherwise trade him. Players who aren't a me me me guy go in play like heck so the whole league see it and sees that he's a team player and not a me me me guy and then other teams will bid for him as a free agent. Now every year the former players and former GM's on sports shows have a list of players that should have been voted on the Pro Bowl and question some of the one who did make it. Why - because fans get to vote.
.

Your disingenuous debating is obvious.

You keep bringing up Pro Bowl because it's an easy accomplishment to punch a hole through when you argue he's a player in real decline. You can say the Pro Bowl means little because the fans vote and it's a popularity context.

Notice you never bring up the fact he was an ALL PRO last year. You basically refuse to mention that, always going back to Pro Bowl because you realize it shoots a massive hole in your argument here.

 

[glimmerman]

I appreciate Stephen for his carefulness with signings. It's refreshing.

But when a player so specifically and exactly meets a very immediate and pressing need that could make a HUGE difference.....you have to step up and pay for it. Give the Seahawks a 3rd that could very reasonably be a 2nd if certain qualifications of games played is met. Or, perhaps a guy like Taco Charlton or Jourdan Lewis would be a fair trade since we look long at those positions suddenly.

You don't get a guy like Earl Thomas for a bag of Funyuns like everybody wants. They'll get a 3rd-round compensatory just for letting him walk anyway.

Some how the staff doesn’t see it as a need worth giving up the pick. Or the players. Maybe they are afraid of his age and he will want a large contract they will be stuck with when time catches him.

 

[Stash]

Yes I'm a fan and I don't feed into that bogus game of voting for players for the Pro Bowl.

And I'm not the only person who thinks Thomas is a me me me guy. Many of the talking heads on TV have said that he's being a me me me guy. They say the proof is if Seattle pays him what he wants then he'll stay otherwise trade him. Players who aren't a me me me guy go in play like heck so the whole league see it and sees that he's a team player and not a me me me guy and then other teams will bid for him as a free agent. Now every year the former players and former GM's on sports shows have a list of players that should have been voted on the Pro Bowl and question some of the one who did make it. Why - because fans get to vote.
.

"Talking heads"? Of course they do. After all, part of their job is to stir up interest, right?

But yet again, what they say has no merit and no bearing on what the people in the locker room that matter think. And guys in there like Bobby Wagner have come out publicly on record supporting Thomas position. The opposite of viewing him as a me me guy. I give statements from those involved much more weight than any outside opinions.

And the fact is that you can go to any coach, GM, or talking head that you want and to a person, they would all say that Earl Thomas is among the best - if not the best safeties in the league.

It's fine if you're against a trade and paying too much for him. I get that. But you don't need to make things up to support that position. There are plenty of legit concerns to choose from.

 

[Stash]

sure would be nice to have a young guy with a nose for the ball like Xavier learn from one of the best
kinda like having Lee as a coach or Witten as a coach or even Romo
they immediately understand what the other team is trying to do, Dallas hasnt had that in the secondary in forever

To say nothing of the fact that this team is paper thin at the safety position the way it is. Let's face it, there's Woods, Heath, and Frazier. And that's it.

 

[Doomsday101]

Some how the staff doesn’t see it as a need worth giving up the pick. Or the players. Maybe they are afraid of his age and he will want a large contract they will be stuck with when time catches him.

Cowboys have made an offer I'm glad they have not budged from that offer.

 

[Stash]

You made the very same comment I do when people say the Cowboys or this team will get this compensatory pick. It all depends on what free agents a team signs and for how much. You made a very good point.
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Thanks!

 

[Stash]

Cowboys have made an offer I'm glad they have not budged from that offer.

Exactly. They deserve credit for sticking to their guns and not simply giving the other team whatever they wanted as they did in years past.

As critical of the team as I can be, I can also give credit where credit is due. And I think it's certainly due here.

 

[Doomsday101]

Exactly. They deserve credit for sticking to their guns and not simply giving the other team whatever they wanted as they did in years past.

As critical of the team as I can be, I can also give credit where credit is due. And I think it's certainly due here.

True, I would love to have a playmaker like Thomas but given the contract Dallas would have to pay out I think the offer the Cowboys made was fair.

 

[Sydla]

Exactly. They deserve credit for sticking to their guns and not simply giving the other team whatever they wanted as they did in years past.

As critical of the team as I can be, I can also give credit where credit is due. And I think it's certainly due here.

Yes, Seattle is in a bind here. There's no reason at this point to cave in and give up that 2nd or 1st rounder for the guy. Hold onto that 3rd or 4th round offer you have, maybe throw in a player like a backup DE or WR and just wait it out.

I've seen some suggest we need to get him into camp soon if we want him but let's note he probably doesn't need a whole lot of time to get up to speed here since it appears the secondary is now running a lot of Richard's schemes. Thomas could come right in the last week of camp and still be able to easily hit the ground running.

What could be interesting here is if he holds out for a few weeks into the season and the Cowboys have seen real issues with their S play. Could the Cowboys then blink?

 

[Doomsday101]

Yes, Seattle is in a bind here. There's no reason at this point to cave in and give up that 2nd or 1st rounder for the guy. Hold onto that 3rd or 4th round offer you have, maybe throw in a player like a backup DE or WR and just wait it out.

I've seen some suggest we need to get him into camp soon if we want him but let's note he probably doesn't need a whole lot of time to get up to speed here since it appears the secondary is now running a lot of Richard's schemes. Thomas could come right in the last week of camp and still be able to easily hit the ground running.

What could be interesting here is if he holds out for a few weeks into the season and the Cowboys have seen real issues with their S play. Could the Cowboys then blink?

Or someone else jumps into the discussion and offers more. While I think Thomas is better than what we have right now I don't think the guys we do have are bad players. I think Cowboys stick to their guns and will not up their offer.

 

[glimmerman]

Yes, Seattle is in a bind here. There's no reason at this point to cave in and give up that 2nd or 1st rounder for the guy. Hold onto that 3rd or 4th round offer you have, maybe throw in a player like a backup DE or WR and just wait it out.

I've seen some suggest we need to get him into camp soon if we want him but let's note he probably doesn't need a whole lot of time to get up to speed here since it appears the secondary is now running a lot of Richard's schemes. Thomas could come right in the last week of camp and still be able to easily hit the ground running.

What could be interesting here is if he holds out for a few weeks into the season and the Cowboys have seen real issues with their S play. Could the Cowboys then blink?

If they keep seeing these opposing receiver getting open in the middle of the field they might just blink.

 

[DiResta]

To say nothing of the fact that this team is paper thin at the safety position the way it is. Let's face it, there's Woods, Heath, and Frazier. And that's it.

well at least its a weak qb/receiver division /s

 

[Sydla]

well at least its a weak qb/receiver division /s

Your sarcasm impresses me.

 

[Stash]

True, I would love to have a playmaker like Thomas but given the contract Dallas would have to pay out I think the offer the Cowboys made was fair.

I've said numerous times, if his contract expectations are reasonable (for a player of his stature) and in the $10 million a year range, I'm good with that. But if this is about "beating Eric Berry" and making in excess of $13 million a year? Then the problem is Thomas, and unrealistic salary demands. And then he can sit and rot in Seattle.

I'm not sure if he has any inside info, but Broaddus has been banging the drum for this deal and seems to think that Thomas' demands would be reasonable if it meant getting back to play football in Texas. Hopefully that's the case as I feel any potential deal would take compromise from all three parties involved.

 

[glimmerman]

Or someone else jumps into the discussion and offers more. While I think Thomas is better than what we have right now I don't think the guys we do have are bad players. I think Cowboys stick to their guns and will not up their offer.

I am hopeful what we have is going to improve. It’s only preseason and everything is vanilla. I just want our Defense getting off the field on 3rd downs. When a opposing offense is 3rd and 12 and is picking it up more often than not. It’s bothersome. Lol

 

[gjkoeppen]

The comparison to Bryant is BS but typical exaggeration I expect from you at this point. I don't really care what Rodney Harrison says from a distance. By most accounts, Thomas is a great teammate, a good team leader and players that have and continue to play with him have come out in support of him. What Rodney Harrison says is meaningless at that point.

Thomas was an All Pro last year. I don't need him to play for 7 more years or even 5 more years, I need him to play for 2-3 at a high level and there's no reason whatsoever to think he can't play at the level for the next 3 seasons. Even if one stipulates he's not the same player he was at 25, he's still one of the 2-3 best FS in football and to suggest otherwise is just plain silliness.

Gee there were people that said Bryant after the 2014 season was one of the best receivers and would be for the next 3 - 5 years except after 2014 he's not had a single 1000+ season and most don't even think he's even a #1 receiver anymore. You must have some magical crystal ball that tells you that Thomas's game is 100% guaranteed not to drop off at all in the next 2 - 3 years. The list is endless of players who's game dropped off in just a single season and quite often that happens around the age of 30. The list is also endless of players who were good on one team and never were as good on another team because of different supporting casts. If you think Thomas is the best thing since sliced bread fine, but if he was some team that needs a safety would have been dialing up Seattle and trading for him. The whole world knows he wants to be traded and yet we hear of no other teams ever mentioned as interested in or trying to trade for Thomas. With the off season sportswriters write stuff just to get people to click on their articles to make money and yet none of them did that with other teams interested in Thomas. Maybe just maybe Richard coming over from Seattle has said things to Jones to make him think maybe acquiring Thomas isn't such a sure thing. I don't know this, nobody does, but it could have happened. What we do know is an offer was made the week before the draft and nothing since then. Months have past and still nothing. If you like him knock your socks off. As far as Harrison, he has a ring how many do you have? When it comes to who most will trust, a former player with a ring or a fan - I'll take the guy who has actually played the game.
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[Stash]

Yes, Seattle is in a bind here. There's no reason at this point to cave in and give up that 2nd or 1st rounder for the guy. Hold onto that 3rd or 4th round offer you have, maybe throw in a player like a backup DE or WR and just wait it out.

I'd give up the 3rd and a surplus player. Or even a conditional 3rd that becomes a 2nd if quality conditions are met.

I've seen some suggest we need to get him into camp soon if we want him but let's note he probably doesn't need a whole lot of time to get up to speed here since it appears the secondary is now running a lot of Richard's schemes. Thomas could come right in the last week of camp and still be able to easily hit the ground running.

Familiarity wouldn't concern me, at least with the scheme. With the current players? Sure, the earlier the better. But not so much as to overpay.

What could be interesting here is if he holds out for a few weeks into the season and the Cowboys have seen real issues with their S play. Could the Cowboys then blink?

Anything is possible. Potential injuries could also play a role. I've read Huff got injured vs San Fran and will miss time, and then there was a scare with Heath at practice yesterday. That's two less from a thin group already.

But then we go and sign another wide receiver?

 

[TwoDeep3]

Looking at ET's stats, I'm not certain I see this grand decline. Looks to me like he chugs along regardless of the success of the team around him.

By the way, he doesn't turn 30 until 3-4 months after the 2018 season.