Do you really need 20 Million DE's?

[QuincyCarterEra]

Look, I'm a big Tank guy. Y'all also know I'm a HUGE "hate the FO" guy. So keep that in mind when I bring this to your attention.

I looked at the top 10 defenses in the NFL last season. Out of those 10 teams, only two of them paid their RDE and LDE a combined salary of more than 18 Million dollars. That's for both sides people. Minnesota, and Houston. Pittsburgh would make 3 but I wanted to stay top ten ranked defensive teams.

So tell me what I'm missing here? As much as I know we need quality first tier guys at several positions, do we want 23 million wrapped up in one where the highest paid player at that position doesn't get his team into the top ten in defense??? Are we good enough every where else to justify this?

Again, I like Tank, I knew from the beginning he was the War Daddy Jerry dreamed of. But paying him over 20 million a year doesn't ensure nothing. All it really does is create a scapegoat when things go south!!!

What did you use as a basis for top 10 defense? Because the Cowboys were a top 10 defense in some categories and we also spent more than $18M on our starting DEs

 

[cowboyblue22]

if your coaching was good enough u could use the patriots model and no u wouldn't break the bank for a defensive end I say trade him trade for quinn and sign Ansah and draft some one and move on

 

[Stash]

Not to disagree because I like the premise, but for clarity do any of these top ten teams have elite DE’s on rookie deals? Do they run a different front and pay an astronomical amount for an OLB like Chicago and Mack?

Where is the money allocated and is there any position amongst them that shows a trend?

Yes, yes they do. Most of them in fact. Thank you for bringing that up.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...eStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&qualified=false

Most of the top defenses have either big money paid to their defensive line or elite players on rookie deals.

 

[buybuydandavis]

If the Cowboys are not willing to pay this much for a DE, then they should have never used the franchise tag on Tank.

Did you see the Pats use the franchise tag on FLowers? No, they thanked him for his services and he signed for $18.5 yr with Detriot.

When they signed Almost Anthony to his second tag, there was talk of trading him. It never materialized. I felt that they had just overestimated the interest there would be for him. And then they were stuck.

I think a lot of people here overestimate the interest teams would show to trade for Tank. Maybe Tank overestimates it too.

It doesn't look like NE didn't think they could do better with Flowers than the bottom of the third comp pick compensation. With a 120% tag, how much better more than that comp pick can we realistically do with Tank?

 

[Stash]

When they signed Almost Anthony to his second tag, there was talk of trading him. It never materialized. I felt that they had just overestimated the interest there would be for him. And then they were stuck.

I think a lot of people here overestimate the interest teams would show to trade for Tank. Maybe Tank overestimates it too.

It doesn't look like NE didn't think they could do better with Flowers than the bottom of the third comp pick compensation. With a 120% tag, how much better more than that comp pick can we realistically do with Tank?

It's tough for me to say when the Raiders can get two 1st round draft picks and then Mack can break the bank for defensive player salary for the entire league. That one is still a shocker for me and I'm still not sure who truly got the better end of the deal.

 

[buybuydandavis]

seems like the only guys fans want to get paid is offensive linemen.

“Nah we can draft another RB. nah we dont need a #1 WR. Nah we dont need to pay a DE top money. Nah we dont need a S”

The oline are the biggest and strongest players on the field. Last a long time. Play practically 100% of snaps. The oline is a good bet. I'd pay the center and tackles before DEs.

 

[The Natural]

The oline are the biggest and strongest players on the field. Last a long time. Play practically 100% of snaps. The oline is a good bet. I'd pay the center and tackles before DEs.

Where has that gotten us so far?

 

[uvaballa]

No but if you don’t have someone to replace them your D will suck again.

 

[buybuydandavis]

It's tough for me to say when the Raiders can get two 1st round draft picks and then Mack can break the bank for defensive player salary for the entire league. That one is still a shocker for me and I'm still not sure who truly got the better end of the deal.

That's fair enough. It may be across the league teams value picks versus signing proven big players to big money very differently.

I think it's a big loser to give lots of pick value for a guy you have to sign free agent money to anyway, but obviously everyone does not agree.

IMO, what comes into play is short term vs. long term thinking, with GMs worried about their jobs worried about *now*, and with every incentive to mortgage the future and get out of Dodge before the bill comes due. The picks are the long term play.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Where has that gotten us so far?

A couple of years recently it got us a dominant offense and 12-4 and 13-3 records.

This should be a very good year for the oline.

 

[Stash]

That's fair enough. It may be across the league teams value picks versus signing proven big players to big money very differently.

I think it's a big loser to give lots of pick value for a guy you have to sign free agent money to anyway, but obviously everyone does not agree.

IMO, what comes into play is short term vs. long term thinking, with GMs worried about their jobs worried about *now*, and with every incentive to mortgage the future and get out of Dodge before the bill comes due. The picks are the long term play.

I totally agree with you, and that's the way I would approach it too. But meanwhile, the Bears go from worst to first in their division and GM Ryan Pace is lauded as executive of the year. So it's clear that there's more than one way to have success.

 

[Stash]

A couple of years recently it got us a dominant offense and 12-4 and 13-3 records.

This should be a very good year for the oline.

We all hope so. But that group needs a serious bounce back season if this team is to have any success. If not, it's time to start rethinking the huge investments being made there.

 

[The Natural]

A couple of years recently it got us a dominant offense and 12-4 and 13-3 records.

Ok, and where did that get us? You probably cant even name the Rams starting center or either tackle. Lets keep trying to stack an all pro guy at each position on the o-line, sooner or later it will pay off right

 

[JW82]

I agree. He has been hurt all but one season of his career. There is a big gray area between overpaying damages goods and the bargain bin. Follow the pats lead. Since this team really has no respect for free agency BUT has been drafting well, try to trade him for picks and get a cheaper version of him for a few years.

 

[buybuydandavis]

I totally agree with you, and that's the way I would approach it too. But meanwhile, the Bears go from worst to first in their division and GM Ryan Pace is lauded as executive of the year. So it's clear that there's more than one way to have success.

You can throw a big ole party today by mortgaging the next couple of drafts. Everybody gets drunk and has a good time. Let's see how Bears fans feel about Pace in 4 years.

At least they got an All Pro out of the deal.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Look, I'm a big Tank guy. Y'all also know I'm a HUGE "hate the FO" guy. So keep that in mind when I bring this to your attention.

I looked at the top 10 defenses in the NFL last season. Out of those 10 teams, only two of them paid their RDE and LDE a combined salary of more than 18 Million dollars. That's for both sides people. Minnesota, and Houston. Pittsburgh would make 3 but I wanted to stay top ten ranked defensive teams.

So tell me what I'm missing here? As much as I know we need quality first tier guys at several positions, do we want 23 million wrapped up in one where the highest paid player at that position doesn't get his team into the top ten in defense??? Are we good enough every where else to justify this?

Again, I like Tank, I knew from the beginning he was the War Daddy Jerry dreamed of. But paying him over 20 million a year doesn't ensure nothing. All it really does is create a scapegoat when things go south!!!

depends on the make up of the team....you have to get sacks. do we have the personnel to get those sacks...and few years ago, we were one of those teams....that didn't pay top dollars to the DE but were getting production...eventually these players will want to get paid, we are at that point.

 

[Stash]

You can throw a big ole party today by mortgaging the next couple of drafts. Everybody gets drunk and has a good time. Let's see how Bears fans feel about Pace in 4 years.

At least they got an All Pro out of the deal.

If they're still making the playoffs, they'll still be happy. But I can't help but to think they're going to suffer having their defensive coordinator picked to be the Broncos head coach.
But compare that to our Cowboys. What have our recent moves gotten us? We're reaching the end on all of these "great draft choices" working cheap so that window is quickly closing with nothing to show for it either.

Look at what's happening league wide when it comes to these top pass rushers, and I don't care where the guy is lining up, if you can pressure the opposing passer, you're getting paid. But teams are not letting these guys get away. They're either tagging them and paying them big money themselves, or they're trading for them when they can and paying a huge premium. The one guy that actually hit the market - Flowers - was overpaid for production and got a huge contract. The others were all tagged.

That's because there aren't enough of them to go around, and the league knows that. Just like with these quarterbacks being overpaid. Even if you're mediocre, you're still making a fortune. Supply and demand, and not enough to go around.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Ok, and where did that get us? You probably cant even name the Rams starting center or either tackle. Lets keep trying to stack an all pro guy at each position on the o-line, sooner or later it will pay off right

We could play that game with every position. We haven't gone to a SB in a long time. And yet we've spent money all over the place.

I like the oline as a place to spend money. Win the trenches.

Right now, I think we're spending too much on the oline with Collins getting 10mil, but my theory is that was just the deal Jerry made to get Collins to sign here. We were going to make him whole on the money he lost if in the draft if he came here.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Most teams have a hard time when they pay 1-2 players 25% of the cap... its true Tank is a good/great player but it’s also true he disappears for large swaths of the season... he’s also young at 26 probably has 4 more years with top end play left, but he has injury issues.

What team pays 1-2 players 25% of the cap?

 

[buybuydandavis]

If they're still making the playoffs, they'll still be happy. But I can't help but to think they're going to suffer having their defensive coordinator picked to be the Broncos head coach.
But compare that to our Cowboys. What have our recent moves gotten us? We're reaching the end on all of these "great draft choices" working cheap so that window is quickly closing with nothing to show for it either.

Look at what's happening league wide when it comes to these top pass rushers, and I don't care where the guy is lining up, if you can pressure the opposing passer, you're getting paid. But teams are not letting these guys get away. They're either tagging them and paying them big money themselves, or they're trading for them when they can and paying a huge premium. The one guy that actually hit the market - Flowers - was overpaid for production and got a huge contract. The others were all tagged.

That's because there aren't enough of them to go around, and the league knows that. Just like with these quarterbacks being overpaid. Even if you're mediocre, you're still making a fortune. Supply and demand, and not enough to go around.

Yeah, *if* they're still making the playoffs.

As to where it has gotten us, it's to the divisional playoffs for 3 of the last 5 years, with one of the failed years being the no QB year. It got us a winning record and 2 divisional playoff games for the last 3 years, and that's while we wore down a mountain of dead cap and we the team with the youngest starters in the league (or so someone said on the forum recently).

We're reaching the end of the 2016 haul playing cheap. That was a big haul. Should we complain about that? Only 1 guy from that draft isn't still on the team. Tapper.

Could have gone farther but for a weak coaching staff and the team's unwillingness to really run Dak.